Lets talk GEC!

Mike thanks for the work on measuring pull weight it will be good when we have that data standardised.

knifeswapper said:
Nearly every old slipjoint I have gets circular swirls in the brass from the tang rotation. Hadn't thought to call it a problem; but it does sound like you have one that may be a bit too much resistance.
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Re this point, for the first time when I received the new #43 I thought that the sideways pressure from the bolsters was influencing the blade’s movement more than the longitudinal pressure of the backspring. Perhaps this imbalance is causing those issues with the liners.
 
Modoc ED said:
Too much whining lately. Be thankful that the pull on the new run of 71s is a bit stiff. It'll wear in just fine and be just right after use in a very short time. So what if your blade isn't dead center. It doesn't effect the utility of the knife at all - any knife for that matter. You got a scuff mark on a bolster or blade, buff it out. None of these are returnable issues.
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You said it. If there's one thing that really busts my buttons, it's incessant whining. Someone who just goes on and on listing little things that bother them, as if that's remotely interesting to anyone else. So what if it bugs them? We're supposed to hear about it so we're bugged too? People need to think twice before they waste other pople's time nattering on and on about something that only bothers them.
 
For those who come here for knives, rather than thickly applied irony, here's a photo of my Bull Moose, which I have loved and carried every day ever since it arrived. (Except on very rainy days when my pockets will all be soaked.)

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L.H.S said:
So I'm pretty frustrated right now. I was looking at my #45 Lumberjack in Pioneer Muscle Bone in anticipation of the #46 in Muscle Bone I'm getting and each time I opened it the action got worse. This has been happening for a while, as I mentioned earlier in this thread I noticed that the tang (specifically the shoulder of the plunge line of the grind) has been digging into the liner and creating a burr/trough. Well tonight it got exponentially worse to the point that I was pretty much unable to move it past the half stop to full open. I had pretty much the same issue on my (admittedly, Store model) #25 in Unicorn Ivory Acrylic that ended up making it start to pull apart and now I'm having it rebuilt. Well, I checked the #45 and it seems to have developed some play. I'm sending it in. I don't know what they'll do or if anything can be done, but I think they should see it and I don't think this issue is my fault and I don't want it to worsen.


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Considering this, I looked at my other GECs. My current count is 10, yes 10, of them have this same issue with the shoulder of the tang at the plunge grind digging into the liner. That's like 50% of my current collection. I really think they'd just need to polish this specific area and it'd fix the issue. I've included a picture to show where I mean. I invite you to check your knives for this. I don't think it creates an issue with the action (like on my #25 and #45) most of the time, but I think it's worth the extra few seconds on the buffing wheel.

Dq3DeG0l.jpg


I'm also sending in my #43 Oregon Trapper in stag because I've sharpened it literally over a dozen times and it still has a little blade rap, so hopefully they can sharpen it out or lengthen the tang.


The pull on my #71 OD Green started out as an 8, but after oiling and using/working it it is more like a 6.5-7 now. It is very manageable for me and I mostly pinch it open. The #71 Red Linen from the second batch that I got came as a 7. I expect it will probably work to a 6 with oiling and use, but I'm not using it for now.
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L.H.S I do believe that you have an issue with your knife, especially, if it is raising a burr like that with use. As Mike said, that knife deserves a trip back to the manufacture to see what they can do.

As to the ding in the blade and blade rap, if you've sharpened it as many times as you said and I don't doubt you a bit then send it back to see what GEC can do.

My statement yesterday was only meant as a general statement and certainly not addressed to you.
 
There seems to be a lot of people talking about "blade rap" and the ding it causes in the cutting edge of their knives. There was a thread on this subject back in July 2004 and here is gud4u"s remedy followed by comments from A>G> Russel.

gud4u said: talking about blade rap
I have a gorgeous stag-handled Case Trapper that has the same problem.

The blade doesn't actually touch the backspring when closed slowly, but it does when snapped to closing, due to dynamic inertia of the long blades when snapped shut.

About the only practical solution is to simply close the folder gently.

A.G. Russell said:

This is THE answer. One of the serious problems with traditional pocket knives today is that customers have complained so much about this that the blades are too narrow. By being unwilling to close your knives gently you give up lots of blade. When I make iknives like this I assume that my customers are bright enough to close their knives gently and preserve their edges. Not everybody sees it my way. Their choice. I like full blades.

all the best,

A.G.

and then "fasteddie" said:

Its called overtravel. Even if the blade isnt actually touching at rest, if you let the blade drop when closing it, there is a chance it will hit and create the dull spot. The answer has three parts... 1) the blade has to be resharpened to get rid of the dull spot. Often that takes away enough material to fix the problem. 2) Close your custom slipjoint knifes carefully; dont let the blade drop. (And for that matter, open them carefully to prevent blade rubbing on multiblades.) 3) If it is touching at rest, or the nick is too deep to sharpen out, the knife has to go back to the maker. A few minutes on a belt grinder and the problem is solved forever.

After this the thread went on to talk about "Hit the Kick" which involves peening the kick with a flat faced punch and a hammer which stretches the kick.
 
Those are interesting comments from A.G. Russell. He has since began adding stop pins inside the blade well to prevent blade rap on many of his knives.

Just goes to show that his head is always churning for ways to improve his products. It's as if he said "Like good snap but hate blade rap? Here, let me fix that for ya".
 
Modoc ED said:
There seems to be a lot of people talking about "blade rap" and the ding it causes in the cutting edge of their knives. There was a thread on this subject back in July 2004 and here is gud4u"s remedy followed by comments from A>G> Russel.

gud4u said: talking about blade rap
I have a gorgeous stag-handled Case Trapper that has the same problem.

The blade doesn't actually touch the backspring when closed slowly, but it does when snapped to closing, due to dynamic inertia of the long blades when snapped shut.

About the only practical solution is to simply close the folder gently.

A.G. Russell said:

This is THE answer. One of the serious problems with traditional pocket knives today is that customers have complained so much about this that the blades are too narrow. By being unwilling to close your knives gently you give up lots of blade. When I make iknives like this I assume that my customers are bright enough to close their knives gently and preserve their edges. Not everybody sees it my way. Their choice. I like full blades.

all the best,

A.G.

and then "fasteddie" said:

Its called overtravel. Even if the blade isnt actually touching at rest, if you let the blade drop when closing it, there is a chance it will hit and create the dull spot. The answer has three parts... 1) the blade has to be resharpened to get rid of the dull spot. Often that takes away enough material to fix the problem. 2) Close your custom slipjoint knifes carefully; dont let the blade drop. (And for that matter, open them carefully to prevent blade rubbing on multiblades.) 3) If it is touching at rest, or the nick is too deep to sharpen out, the knife has to go back to the maker. A few minutes on a belt grinder and the problem is solved forever.

After this the thread went on to talk about "Hit the Kick" which involves peening the kick with a flat faced punch and a hammer which stretches the kick.
Click to expand...

These are some great points. Thanks for sharing, Ed.

I know the #43s have largely suffered from blade rap, including mine, and you can see it all over the thread about those knives in particular. The blade on mine is definitely not resting on the back spring but it is certainly hitting it when I snap it closed and I seem to recall someone in the 43 thread talking about "overtravel" or something along those lines. Since I really like the full blade on the 43s, I haven't been too keen on sending it back or sharpening it until it no longer has a chance to hit, so I have been trying to remember to close it far more carefully.

Habits can be hard to break though so I haven't carried it as much until I learn to be more mindful of the knives I do carry that do not suffer from blade rap.
 
Modoc ED said:
There seems to be a lot of people talking about "blade rap" and the ding it causes in the cutting edge of their knives. There was a thread on this subject back in July 2004 and here is gud4u"s remedy followed by comments from A>G> Russel.
Click to expand...

Could you link to this thread?
 
The red micarta 71 arrived. I plan to turn it into my pocket scalpel, as I am a bit sick of obtuse edges and thick grinds, and my light use benefits from a thin edge.

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I hadn’t realized how much extra work I put into a traditional once I get it.
  • Flushed with WD40 and exercised the pivot to get it clean.
  • Blown out with air.
  • Cleaned the blade with soap and water to get the WD40 off.
  • Vinegar bath for the blade, in a glass outside for 30 minutes.
  • Lube the pivot and back spring again.
  • One last hit with compressed air.
Then a lanyard to attach it to a suspension clip for the pocket, and it’s ready to go!

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The action is smooth now, if a little hard on the pull. The vinegar patina helps with pinchability and the pull weight gives it a really satisfying snap, both open and closed. No blade rap, even when snapping it shut with wild abandon. Which is fun to do.

I sharpened it freehand, helping to judge the angle by occasionally propping the spine of the blade up on a couple of coins. Got out the calipers and measured the approximate angle as 13° per side. Will take it a bit lower if I get no edge damage on daily tasks. I’d like to hit 10 or 11°.

So far, so good, but I’m not even through a full day of chores yet. Can’t wait to see how this knife compares to the moderns and supersteels I’ve become accustomed to.
 
That's a sharp looking knife!! Glad you like it and I'm glad to see you mentioned establishing your sharpening angle using a couple of coins. Two quarters stacked one on another provide a sharpening angle right at 20º . I still don't get the draw of needing to pinch a blade open except for an easy-open knife but hey, that's just my quirk. Enjoy and "snap away". Just keep an eye out for a blade ding. That red color is perfect!!!
 
Here are some pictures of what I'm seeing on my knives. I don't know if this is normal, but I do think it could be easily avoided with some buffing. The shoulder of the plunge grind, highlighted in the below picture, is rough and sticks out on the knives with this issue and seems to correspond with the troughs.

Dq3DeG0.jpg




2014 Rendezvous TC
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2015 Rendezvous Improved Trapper
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2016 Rendezvous Mustang
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2017 Rendezvous Special
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Office Knife
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Bullnose
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knifeswapper knifeswapper is this what you have on your knives also?

My #25 store model, #45 Lumberjack, and #65 Ben Hogan also had it but they're off to Birdvis and GEC, respectively, to get worked on.
 
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Blade rap, don’t like it. I get the points made about if you want as much blade as possible, it becomes more likely. But I think the manufacturer can and should tweak the design to minimize it more than they sometimes do. I have knives from GEC and other makers that both have and do not have the issue so it doesn’t have to happen but sometimes does. I’ve resorted to adding a small piece of rubber in the blade well either where the blade hits or under the kick as necessary depending on the knife. Now I typically close my knives more carefully but often enough I need to close it one handed on a ladder or in -35celcius when I can’t feel my hands well enough to control it all the way shut. In these cases I’d prefer if I didn’t then have to go sharpen out a dull spot.

More directly GEC related, I’m hoping for some small patterns like the Esquire again. I know the 14’s are on the way and I might give one a try but for some reason they don’t catch my eye.
 
Modoc ED said:
Too much whining lately. Be thankful that the pull on the new run of 71s is a bit stiff. It'll wear in just fine and be just right after use in a very short time. So what if your blade isn't dead center. It doesn't effect the utility of the knife at all - any knife for that matter. You got a scuff mark on a bolster or blade, buff it out. None of these are returnable issues.
Click to expand...
I received a red micarta 71 this past week. The pull is bordering on ridiculous. Out of the approximately 40 knives I own it would be the last one to select for EDC in its present state. And with 40 knives why would I want to go through all sorts of work to get it "useable". Looks great, good external F&F, no complaints there but if I had picked it up in a shop and tried it, I would have put it right back down, shook my head and left it there.

This one is a miss for me.

,,,Mike in Canada
 
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