Leu Custom Kozuka Neck Knife

i have no doubt you can outgrind me. i have made only a few flatgrinds :D if you manage to somehow take what i said the wrong way i will seriously have to jump ship :D

No way Pohan, and thanks for saying that.. I do apologize for some of the harshness in my tone also. Like John said, you do have alot of ability. I think many would like to see you develop that ability before you get comfortable doing something thats already being done.;)


Again, I didnt set out to make this what it became, and sorry for hijacking this thread.. Now if JTL can refrain from taunting me into more debate I will grafefully bow out of this discussion..:cool::D:thumbup:
 
John>What about makers who copy Loveless or Moran, to-the-T?! No one says a word. I just don't get this PL/PH bashing. It's down right nasty.
 
No way Pohan, and thanks for saying that.. I do apologize for some of the harshness in my tone also. Like John said, you do have alot of ability. I think many would like to see you develop that ability before you get comfortable doing something thats already being done.;)


Again, I didnt set out to make this what it became, and sorry for hijacking this thread.. Now if JTL can refrain from taunting me into more debate I will grafefully bow out of this discussion..:cool::D:thumbup:

i am impressed. i will accept your apology. theres really no need to do so, but i appreciate the gesture. TJL is my brother and will back me up when i am being attacked. he means no harm i am sure. maybe you can teach me to full flat grind better someday :D
 
Lycosa :

I haven't heard Mr Loveless have an issue with it , and he has freely given his patterns to many makers. But what does that have to do with this thread ?

He stated Phil had an issue with work , that to me says a lot. If I was making a Loveless Pattern , just because of the way things work , I would get the OK from Loveless. If he said no , that would be it , no more get made.

In fact , I made a knife that after finishing it looked similar to some old Busse's. After finishing it , I snapped a few picts and emailed them to Mr. Busse , he told me that " while it does have characteristics of older Busse's that he no longer makes , it is different enuff for him to be ok with it ". I was making two at the time ( in case I messed one up ) , to this date only that one has been finished , and it was given to a friend. Even though Mr. Busse said it was ok to make more , it was just too close , and I didn't want to be stepping on his work. Form of respect.

I CAN'T say Phill feels the same way about me. But that's his right to dislike me because I make something that looks like his only because I think it's super cool looking in his style!.

If you are in it for the long haul , and respect is not shown where it is deserved , expect an uphill battle getting accepted.

It's about doing the right thing , when you know what the right thing is. Granted some just go on going on , and that is their decision.

But if you get called out by the man who you are accused of copying , it is best to address it with the man , find a resolution and then continue. Deciding to continue with out the makers blessing , well , one better develop some really thick skin and be prepared for more of this same " criticism " in the future.

Won't question his abilities at all , as they FAR exceed mine , and he certainly has shown he knows how to make a fine knife. Now if he comes up with something that is unique and his total design , then he better stock up on steel , because he is going to be very VERY busy at the grinder. :)
 
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Yeah I saw how they worked like a "scalpel" in the vid's... You have never used one of my knives, and yet you claim you know these PL/PH knives perform better than 9999.99% ANY blades out there.. Thats pretty big talk.

You say I cant "achieve" grinding skills that Master Po can.
Ok I got a bet for ya.. I said I can chisel grind a knife, and I can do it any thickness all the way down to zero ground. Whatever..
Ask Master Po if he can full flat grind a 1/4" recurve on both sides of the blade symetrically free hand. Then ask him what is harder to achieve.... Better yet WHY DONT you post a poll in the Bladesmith area asking which is harder to do?? I also use a machine satin finish so they come off the grinder final finished, I dont hand rub out any "flaws or errors" I'll bet ya $50 the outcome will not be in your favor.

Guys, Im all about letting this go, but Im not gonna let some clown shoe thats never stepped behind a grinder talk shit to me without saying something. This guy would have to study hard and take a test to be considered a dimwit.:jerkit:

Keep drinkin the cool aid amigo..

I think the best thing for me to do is order the knife you say is so great from you, and do a head to head test. The only stipulation is that you have to produce the knife in 1/4" stock with a 5" blade for under $250.00. If you can make a better product for the same price range as ruled under controlled test conditions, I will post the results and concede that you make a superior knife. So put your product where your mouth is, and let me see if it can withstand the thrashing I have put the Leu knives through. I will start with a fresh blade of the same dimensions from both of you, and run them through a series of tests for cutting, edge sharpness, piercing, edge holding, flexibility, brittleness, fit and finish, precision of grind geometry, sharpening, and finally under hydraulic press, how many pounds of pressure it takes to crack the blade in half. I'm ready when you are! Oh, and you can have your knife back when I am finished with the testing. Put up or shut up.
 
TJL, we have everyone else working on problem-solving, and backing away from the argumentative former style, and you bounce back in with another insult.

I won't bother to cut your strange proposal to pieces. It fails on its own. Please drop it while you still have a reputation and while I still have patience.
 
Lycosa :

I haven't heard Mr Loveless have an issue with it , and he has freely given his patterns to many makers. But what does that have to do with this thread ?

He stated Phil had an issue with work , that to me says a lot. If I was making a Loveless Pattern , just because of the way things work , I would get the OK from Loveless. If he said no , that would be it , no more get made.

In fact , I made a knife that after finishing it looked similar to some old Busse's. After finishing it , I snapped a few picts and emailed them to Mr. Busse , he told me that " while it does have characteristics of older Busse's that he no longer makes , it is different enuff for him to be ok with it ". I was making two at the time ( in case I messed one up ) , to this date only that one has been finished , and it was given to a friend. Even though Mr. Busse said it was ok to make more , it was just too close , and I didn't want to be stepping on his work. Form of respect.



If you are in it for the long haul , and respect is not shown where it is deserved , expect an uphill battle getting accepted.

It's about doing the right thing , when you know what the right thing is. Granted some just go on going on , and that is their decision.

But if you get called out by the man who you are accused of copying , it is best to address it with the man , find a resolution and then continue. Deciding to continue with out the makers blessing , well , one better develop some really thick skin and be prepared for more of this same " criticism " in the future.

Won't question his abilities at all , as they FAR exceed mine , and he certainly has shown he knows how to make a fine knife. Now if he comes up with something that is unique and his total design , then he better stock up on steel , because he is going to be very VERY busy at the grinder. :)

I have one of the largest collections of Hartsfields in the world, and as someone who knows his work inside and out, there is no comparison between Phill's style and Pohan's. They are totally unique to each maker, and I can tell the difference between them a mile away. To the casual observer, they may look the same, but to the true follower, they are vastly different. I have seen 1500 year old blades that look almost the same as Phill's. Should we condemn him for making a blade that is similar to some long dead Japanese dude? Should we condemn Phill's own son for making some of Phill's blades these days? Yep, I said it.
 
I think the best thing for me to do is order the knife you say is so great from you, and do a head to head test. The only stipulation is that you have to produce the knife in 1/4" stock with a 5" blade for under $250.00. If you can make a better product for the same price range as ruled under controlled test conditions, I will post the results and concede that you make a superior knife. So put your product where your mouth is, and let me see if it can withstand the thrashing I have put the Leu knives through. I will start with a fresh blade of the same dimensions from both of you, and run them through a series of tests for cutting, edge sharpness, piercing, edge holding, flexibility, brittleness, fit and finish, precision of grind geometry, sharpening, and finally under hydraulic press, how many pounds of pressure it takes to crack the blade in half. I'm ready when you are! Oh, and you can have your knife back when I am finished with the testing. Put up or shut up.


Yah I'll get right on that..:jerkit: Im sure you'll be real objective.:rolleyes:

Like I said, ask the people who use my knives. They will speak for me.
As for you, I could care less what you think about my work to be honest.
Your the one talking big about performance, and how there is nothing better.. I never said I make the best knives in the world, but they work well for what they are intended I believe. I think it lies with you to prove your bold statments. I have yet to see any real proof of these claims other than your word. If you really want to see what my knives can do, buy Ron Hoods video where he is chopping frozen Elk leg in a couple whacks with 2 of my blades.

Sorry again, I hope this is the last time I have to interupt..
 
TJL, we have everyone else working on problem-solving, and backing away from the argumentative former style, and you bounce back in with another insult.

I won't bother to cut your strange proposal to pieces. It fails on its own. Please drop it while you still have a reputation and while I still have patience.

I thought it made a lot of sense and would settle the issue once and for all. I will however respect your request as the moderator, and make nice. I have said all that needs saying anyway. Man, I feel like I am back in grade school with all of this squelching.
 
Yah I'll get right on that..:jerkit: Im sure you'll be real objective.:rolleyes:

Like I said, ask the people who use my knives. They will speak for me.
As for you, I could care less what you think about my work to be honest.
Your the one talking big about performance, and how there is nothing better.. I never said I make the best knives in the world, but they work well for what they are intended I believe. I think it lies with you to prove your bold statments. I have yet to see any real proof of these claims other than your word. If you really want to see what my knives can do, buy Ron Hoods video where he is chopping frozen Elk leg in a couple whacks with 2 of my blades.

Sorry again, I hope this is the last time I have to interupt..

I would keep it totally objective. Totally legit and video taped for each test. I owned one of your Matrix blades a while back that came from AZ. I can get it back from the guy I sold it to, but it would not be a fair contest. I am open to allowing you to take a fresh blade of mine from Pohan if you want to perform the tests under controlled conditions and video tape the results. That way, you can be sure of the results. Sound good?
 
Yah sure champ, get that Matrix back or buy one of my blades on the secondary market and knock yerself out! Like I said I dont have anything to prove, and especially not to you. I'm sure you will characterize this as my fear, but seriously I could give a shit less.
 
Well, this has deteriorated into an amazing performance ... I could never have imagined anyone ignorant enough to call Trace ignorant. The problem with fans is they overinterpret criticism. No criticism, no growth. Harsh criticism: harder to hear, perhaps, but no less valuable.

Trace doesn't participate here enough. I can't imagine why. :p



I think I just remembered why I dont buddy..;)
 
Yah sure champ, get that Matrix back or buy one of my blades on the secondary market and knock yerself out! Like I said I dont have anything to prove, and especially not to you. I'm sure you will characterize this as my fear, but seriously I could give a shit less.

I tried. Best of luck to you.
 
Leu:
As far as your knives being copies of PH's work , I would leave that to PH to decide , though you yourself said he has no love for you as he feels you copy his work , that alone is bad mojo. In this industry copying another makers work , or not coming to a resolution with that maker , can give ya a rep you don't want.

You got skills , hopefully you can come to an agreement with PH , or find a middle ground somehow , and have a healthy , and prosperous knifemaking career.

Thank you John. I completely understand. But if you only knew all the BS that went along with it that wasn't completely necessary, you would probably think differently in this one instance.
 
Maybe I haven't seen enough PH's blades or I'm a bit partial to the Pohan's blades which I'm going to have, from the photo they do look NOT quite similar to PH's blade. They have their own style IMHO.:)
Joe
 
Maybe I haven't seen enough PH's blades or I'm a bit partial to the Pohan's blades which I'm going to have, from the photo they do look NOT quite similar to PH's blade. They have their own style IMHO.:)
Joe

Hi Joe. You are right. They really are much more industrial in form than Phill's. Phill has more of an organic shape to his grinds, and the flow and grace are spectacular. Pohan grinds with a more contemporary angular look. His bevels are sharp edged, and ground the opposite of how Phill does his. His wraps are way superior to Phill's. He really strives to make them perfect. That 8" knife he just completed for you is SO beautiful! It has terrific lines and a beautiful curve to the edge. Wish it was mine!
 
Does everyone realize the same people always chime in on these types of threads! :D Okay, i'll shut up now
 
Maybe I haven't seen enough PH's blades or I'm a bit partial to the Pohan's blades which I'm going to have, from the photo they do look NOT quite similar to PH's blade. They have their own style IMHO.:)
Joe

It's hard to compare a blade I have made to one Phill has made as Phill has made every shape i'm sure imaginable in this style of blade. ones with more acute blade tip profile and ones that are more obtuse in shape. It just all depends on his mood I guess?
 
It's hard to compare a blade I have made to one Phill has made as Phill has made every shape i'm sure imaginable in this style of blade. ones with more acute blade tip profile and ones that are more obtuse in shape. It just all depends on his mood I guess?

He has been on this Earth for close to a century! Lots of time to experiment with designs. Then again, you have a few unique designs on your website. Keep grinding my friend!
 
He has been on this Earth for close to a century! Lots of time to experiment with designs. Then again, you have a few unique designs on your website. Keep grinding my friend!

Eventually my blades will be my blades! and look nothing like anyone's ! :D
 
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