LIN aka (KAI ZHAO) Issue resolved

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It seems we've finally drilled down to the root of the problem. OP claims the knife was in its sheath, and well-packaged when it shipped to the NH address. "LIN" claims that it was only wrapped in bubble wrap and then placed loosely in the box. OP does this for a living, hard to believe he would carelessly package a knife that way, especially such a nice and expensive custom. Someone is lying here, and it is pretty obvious to me despite the language barrier.

LIN said:
and you may find, I get lots of knives here, I do not stay in US for long every time, I fly to US, take all these knives, and get them back to China.
I do not want to say it, but that is what I do for work.
several members I deal lots of times , may know this.
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Just curious, if I may? How is buying knives at BF related to your job? What do you do with them once you get them to China?
 
If I'm reading Lin's side of the story correctly:

-He orders knives online and has them shipped to an American address.
-When enough knives are being held at the American address, he flies (or goes by boat, doesn't say) to America and then back to China, taking the knives with him.
-Lin sees the knives for the first time when he arrives in America. He arrived in Anerica three weeks after the delivery of the knife in question, hence the delay in his complaint being raised.
-Lin couldn't stay in America for very long, so he took the broken knife back to China along with the rest.

-A look at Lin's recent posts will show that he's bought tens of thousands of dollars' worth of knives through BF.
-He had a good track record before this incident.
-So it makes no sense that he would throw all that away by deliberately trying to defraud someone, especially for such a comparatively small amount of money.

A few years ago I was flying without checked bags, so I mailed a Candiru and Opinel to my destination. The envelope arrived with no visible damage, but when I opened it things were rearranged in a ridiculous way... IIRC, the Candiru was taken out of its sheath and jammed into the cardboard Opinel box, with the Opinel itself floating free in the package along with the sheath. There was no visible damage to either knife so I didn't bother with a complaint.

Apparently this isn't a common occurrence or I'd assume it would have been brought up in this thread already. But I can say with certainty that it is possible for an item to arrive at its destination packaged differently from when it left.

Keeping the above in mind, it's my opinion that both Branton and Lin are telling the truth, it doesn't make sense for either to lie.

This just seems to me like a situation where nothing went right. The three week delay, the language barrier, the fact that both parties thought (think?) the other was lying, etc. Hopefully it can still be resolved decently.
 
Good point Dan......BUT why didn't Lin notify Bobby when he saw the damage, allegedly, in NH immediately???
I agree $1200 isn't a million bucks, but if I received a $50 busted up I would notify the seller right away. Maybe ship it back to Bobby from NH right away?? Instead of taking it for a ride to China??
Also, Bobby was not aware about the whole China thing or that Lin doesn't live at the NH address.
Also, to file the PP claim after 1 e mail, without notifying Bobby about it??
Lotta strikes.
Joe
 
Dan57 said:
If I'm reading Lin's side of the story correctly:

-He orders knives online and has them shipped to an American address.
-When enough knives are being held at the American address, he flies (or goes by boat, doesn't say) to America and then back to China, taking the knives with him.
-Lin sees the knives for the first time when he arrives in America. He arrived in Anerica three weeks after the delivery of the knife in question, hence the delay in his complaint being raised.
-Lin couldn't stay in America for very long, so he took the broken knife back to China along with the rest.

-A look at Lin's recent posts will show that he's bought tens of thousands of dollars' worth of knives through BF.
-He had a good track record before this incident.
-So it makes no sense that he would throw all that away by deliberately trying to defraud someone, especially for such a comparatively small amount of money.

A few years ago I was flying without checked bags, so I mailed a Candiru and Opinel to my destination. The envelope arrived with no visible damage, but when I opened it things were rearranged in a ridiculous way... IIRC, the Candiru was taken out of its sheath and jammed into the cardboard Opinel box, with the Opinel itself floating free in the package along with the sheath. There was no visible damage to either knife so I didn't bother with a complaint.

Apparently this isn't a common occurrence or I'd assume it would have been brought up in this thread already. But I can say with certainty that it is possible for an item to arrive at its destination packaged differently from when it left.

Keeping the above in mind, it's my opinion that both Branton and Lin are telling the truth, it doesn't make sense for either to lie.

This just seems to me like a situation where nothing went right. The three week delay, the language barrier, the fact that both parties thought (think?) the other was lying, etc. Hopefully it can still be resolved decently.
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Okay, let us assume all you have laid out is true, which it certainly could be. Like Joe said, the time to ship the knife back to the seller is when you are in the US. It only takes a few minutes to ship an item. Get tracking and notify paypal. Then go back to China. Also, why ask for a huge discount if everything is above board?

The biggest problem here is that an issue was only raised after the knife was across the world in another country. Not only does it complicate things greatly because of shipping it is also just fishy. The chain of possession cannot be proven. If the shipping issue with the knife is not dealt with in the country it was shipped, that puts the seller in a pinch. The seller insured the package to protect himself. How can he now prove the shipper caused the damage and claim the insurance?
 
The way I see it-Even if it arrived at the US destination damaged(due to poor packing, which somehow seems unlikely from a professional dealer), by not notifying the OP of the problem immediately and taking the knife out of the country, he has cost the OP his opportunity to file an insurance claim. Thus the loss should be Lin's. I think it very unlikely USPS would pay now on a damage claim where the knife had been out of their hands for weeks. If I have a warranty on something , but am too busy to get it repaired it lands up my loss. Lin's need to leave the country(and or delay in arriving) may have been unfortunately timed , but that is his problem.
That is how I see it, even if the damage happened in the original transit. Hopefully PP will side with the OP-that would be the correct decission IMO
Lin also could have explained to the OP beforehand how he handled his end of the transaction, then the OP could have acted accordingly or not done the deal at all.
again I don't mind proxy's, but if I am left out of the loop, I am fully out including problems that may occur from their use.
 
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I have known Bobby Branton for 20 years - his integrity and honor is beyond question. He also makes killer knives.
He also runs an Akita rescue on his dime - I have donated to this rescue myself and I would not have done that if Bobby was not above board and a stand up guy.- maybe some of you back seat drivers would like to contact him and make a donation?

I also know LIN, Kai Zhao - for many years - he has always been a totally reliable and honest customer - I have shipped him close to 500 knives through this same forwarder system, and received a complaint on one only which was settled in 30 seconds - my fault entirely.

Not only is there a language barrier here but it is plenty obvious that LIN operates as so many other Chinese collectors and Chinese dealers do and that it using a USA partner to relay goods to him by way of a consolidation so he saves on shipping costs. This is not a new method or idea and has been going on for many years.
Those of you analyzing and making a conspiracy theory what happened have no idea how the package flowed as nor do I.

So those of you who are popping the popcorn and already taking sides against LIN should step back and see that the full details of how the knife got where and how is really not your business and as the moderator said let the 2 parties sort it out.

The one guy who also trashed the entire country of China is his comments also shows that he or probably she is a mindless boor.

I am not taking sides here and have had no communication on details with either Bobby or LIN in this matter - why? BECAUSE IT IS NOT MY BUSINESS.

it is just this gang bang jump all over the guy whose first language is not English and pile on that galls me.

Finally although we may not know how the tip got broken I can tell you that Bobby Branton has never shipped a knife with a broken tip and he knows how to pack knives very well for transport.

Whatever happened to this knife happened in between and I know that both Bobby and LIN will sort it out without the cheerleaders egging the situation on.

And yes- before one of you tries to make my comments an issue, I am speaking like this for LIN because he is a good customer of mine - and that is why I have a right to make these comments about him - because I know him - just like I know Bobby.

The rest of you blindly trashing LIN must be bored with your lives and have little else to do.

Finally a big hello to Bobby and I look forward to seeing you at the next knife show.

Best regards, Neil Ostroff
TRUE NORTH KNIVES
 
I think that both of us have had our say. The fact is that it arrived insured and handled by a third party. How it arrived is going to be my word against his. Hopefully the knife comes back to me on the 20th and he will get his refund. I do not want either of us to have a broken knife. I will have the knife fixed and enjoy it. I will be more careful and find out if a buyer lives in the US and hopefully LIN will post his location in his profile.
No need to beat a dead horse over and over. If Spark wants me to reopen the thread before I receive the knife, I will.
I will report the PP findings and receipt of the knife when it happens.
 
LIN aka (KAI ZHAO) and I have resolved our dispute amicably and he has closed his Pay Pal dispute. I am getting the knife fixed and sending it to him in NH. I will try to time it to when he will be in country. I am confident that this will work this time.
I think both of us and maybe some of you have learned a few lessons along the way.
I do not think LIN is a bad person. I think our cultural and language differences prevented good communication which is essential to any successful transaction. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread especially Neil Ostroff. Have a great weekend.
 
Bobby Branton said:
LIN aka (KAI ZHAO) and I have resolved our dispute amicably and he has closed his Pay Pal dispute. I am getting the knife fixed and sending it to him in NH. I will try to time it to when he will be in country. I am confident that this will work this time.
I think both of us and maybe some of you have learned a few lessons along the way.
I do not think LIN is a bad person. I think our cultural and language differences prevented good communication which is essential to any successful transaction. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread especially Neil Ostroff. Have a great weekend.
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Glad you guys figured this one out. :thumbup:
 
:thumbup:Outstanding work on both parties behalf:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Glad for both of you. You may want to modify the title of the thread some
I didn't get to say it before -Thanks Neil, that was a very informative post.
 
Neil Ostroff said:
I have known Bobby Branton for 20 years - his integrity and honor is beyond question. He also makes killer knives.
He also runs an Akita rescue on his dime - I have donated to this rescue myself and I would not have done that if Bobby was not above board and a stand up guy.- maybe some of you back seat drivers would like to contact him and make a donation?

I also know LIN, Kai Zhao - for many years - he has always been a totally reliable and honest customer - I have shipped him close to 500 knives through this same forwarder system, and received a complaint on one only which was settled in 30 seconds - my fault entirely.

Not only is there a language barrier here but it is plenty obvious that LIN operates as so many other Chinese collectors and Chinese dealers do and that it using a USA partner to relay goods to him by way of a consolidation so he saves on shipping costs. This is not a new method or idea and has been going on for many years.
Those of you analyzing and making a conspiracy theory what happened have no idea how the package flowed as nor do I.

So those of you who are popping the popcorn and already taking sides against LIN should step back and see that the full details of how the knife got where and how is really not your business and as the moderator said let the 2 parties sort it out.

The one guy who also trashed the entire country of China is his comments also shows that he or probably she is a mindless boor.

I am not taking sides here and have had no communication on details with either Bobby or LIN in this matter - why? BECAUSE IT IS NOT MY BUSINESS.

it is just this gang bang jump all over the guy whose first language is not English and pile on that galls me.

Finally although we may not know how the tip got broken I can tell you that Bobby Branton has never shipped a knife with a broken tip and he knows how to pack knives very well for transport.

Whatever happened to this knife happened in between and I know that both Bobby and LIN will sort it out without the cheerleaders egging the situation on.

And yes- before one of you tries to make my comments an issue, I am speaking like this for LIN because he is a good customer of mine - and that is why I have a right to make these comments about him - because I know him - just like I know Bobby.

The rest of you blindly trashing LIN must be bored with your lives and have little else to do.

Finally a big hello to Bobby and I look forward to seeing you at the next knife show.

Best regards, Neil Ostroff
TRUE NORTH KNIVES
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Oh look, a famous a person has dropped in on our little discussion.

Thanks for the kind words about the membership here, coming from you it means a lot...But I guess a man of your integrity would quickly recognize a "gang bang" when they see one.

You forgot to mention however, that without this thread, I doubt this would of ended any differently then it did.

I am glad it worked out, but you don't have to have but a single brain cell to see that it was in everyone's best interest, especially if that "everyone" needs to continue to buy and sell knives.
 
The reason I mentioned Neil is that Neil is a friend and he stumbled across this thread and since Neil vouched for me and LIN knew Neil real well, it made him more comfortable to want to make a deal with me. Either way, the money would have been refunded, the knife would have been fixed and no one would be out of anything. Lesson learned. $1,200.00 refund would have been a big pill for me to swallow close to two months after the fact.
I sold the knife to help my wife fund our little Akita rescue, which I can usually fund out of my knife sales. We got hit with five sick dogs due to a bad batch of dog food. Vet bills were rough for five large dogs. The dog food company sent a few coupons for tiny bags of treats. The money got the rescue back on our feet. Not to mention Bob Terzuola donated a knife to auction off to help us. That really got us back up on our feet with the rescue. Neil is the person who paid way more to help out with a great cause. I am thankful for both of them. I'll miss the knife because it was made for me by a friend, but the dogs and family are always first.
So, if this turns nasty, I'll let everyone have their say and quietly close the thread again.
Thanks again to everyone for their help.
 
Bobby Branton said:
The reason I mentioned Neil is that Neil is a friend and he stumbled across this thread and since Neil vouched for me and LIN knew Neil real well, it made him more comfortable to want to make a deal with me..
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That is basically what I got out of the post as well(with him vouching for both of you). If you go with a hard line, my opinion on how PP should have decided
would remain the same, but flexibility and compromise are often a better solution and I certainly like to keep those PP guys out of my affairs.
Still would love to know the mystery of the loose knife, but that one will just have to remain a mystery I guess. Odds may not be in my favor, but I believe both yours and Lin's stories, leaving a 3rd story somewhere.
 
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Glad to hear that you guys were able to work this one out. You both seem like honest upstanding gentleman and seem to have just fell victim to some unfortunate circumstances. The explanation that LIN provided about his situation sounds logical enough to me and I'd still have no problem dealing with him in the future. I've never personally dealt with you Mr. Branton, but you seemed to be willing to do whatever you reasonably could do to help resolve the situation so you're A+ in my book as well.
 
The one thing that's certain in this thread is that PayPal needs to protect the seller as much as they do the buyer. Their policies are ridiculous.
 
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