liner lock vs frame lock vs lock back BHQ video

I think the moral of the story is to buy from good brands.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Good doesn't have to be expensive either as a $10 Opinel has an efficient locking mechanism. I've always preferred back, compression, ball bearing and bolt locks to liner & frame locks and part of that has to do with being a lefty while another part has to do with a liner lock/human failure I experienced.
 
Last edited:
Was anyone surprised that the ESEE "lost" to the cryo? Or the most expensive knife (the 5.11) failed so early?
 
stabman said:
For sure, especially on the budget models!
I think the moral of the story is to buy from good brands.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I found few surprises in these tests, when viewed as a function of manufacturers quality and reputation. One thing I did learn, is a new respect for my 154CM Gator.
 
sogflash said:
I would like to drive a safe car to avoid being being harmed or killed in case of an accident. It's not only up to me if my car trip is safe. It's my improper use of a knife that might harm me. I don't see how cars and knives compare, sorry.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter much to me if an incident is my fault or not, I don't want to be hurt either way. Accidents happen regardless of how carefully we handle anything, I want the best chance to emerge from it unscathed.
 
Am I the only one who noticed that in the case of the lockbacks, the strap holding the weights was wrapped over the locks, thus keeping the lock pressed down and in place. I think that's why they did so well.
 
sogflash said:
I find these lock strength test to be very useless. when would you need a knife that can take a hundreds of pound of pressure in the opposite direction of normal cutting? When stabbing a bunch of them into a tree or wall to make a ladder?

My lord, what are you guys using your knives for?

Am I taking it to serious that others take locks far to serious?
Click to expand...

I'm kind of in agreement with you. There is pure anecdotal evidence presented in that video. To obtain real data, you'd need a chatillon of some sort, and more than one of each model. Each knife would need to be locked into the exact same spot on the machine, otherwise you are cranking your variables too far out of range from one another to prove anything consistently. Benchmade has a pretty good knife breaking machine. Personally, I don't worry much about liner locks vs frame locks vs lock backs vs whatever locks. When i buy a knife whether it costs $30 or $500+ If it isn't right I either try to get a replacement or contact the manufacturer to make it right. Been in this hobby far too long to keep a knife that doesn't work as it is supposed to. If the company cannot or will not make it right, they do not get my business.

Of course, it's easier to test on knives when they are purchased directly from the manufacturer. It cuts out the middleman (wholesaler) and there is no retail aspect to concern oneself with.
 
Shmavey said:
Am I the only one who noticed that in the case of the lockbacks, the strap holding the weights was wrapped over the locks, thus keeping the lock pressed down and in place. I think that's why they did so well.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to the image of the Gator, the loop of cable was over the pivot pin, which should have little effect on the lockbar. But, good observation though.
 
The video provided a good general idea of what to expect from different mechanisms...I just wish it was more detail oriented. When they were doing lock-backs, it was a traditional style lock-back, a mid-lock, and a triad-lock, of course the cold steel won out. Also, being that one of the knives was a triad-lock and because they couldn't use enough weight to break the lock, the averages were skewed. In the future I'd like to see more $70(ish) knives being tested. I think they represent the overall quality of their different locking mechanisms better than their cheaper counterparts...not to knock the knives being tested, though! Really I'm just nitpicking, it wasn't meant to be the kind of video I'm thinking about. :)
 
It is hard to make a bad lock back knife. A liner lock can easily be made poorly, just by having the improper angle to the lock surface.
 
RevDevil said:
I'm kind of in agreement with you. There is pure anecdotal evidence presented in that video. To obtain real data, you'd need a chatillon of some sort, and more than one of each model. Each knife would need to be locked into the exact same spot on the machine, otherwise you are cranking your variables too far out of range from one another to prove anything consistently. Benchmade has a pretty good knife breaking machine. Personally, I don't worry much about liner locks vs frame locks vs lock backs vs whatever locks. When i buy a knife whether it costs $30 or $500+ If it isn't right I either try to get a replacement or contact the manufacturer to make it right. Been in this hobby far too long to keep a knife that doesn't work as it is supposed to. If the company cannot or will not make it right, they do not get my business.

Of course, it's easier to test on knives when they are purchased directly from the manufacturer. It cuts out the middleman (wholesaler) and there is no retail aspect to concern oneself with.
Click to expand...

This I largely agree with. I'd say it's a step above anecdotal evidence, but it's a far cry from scientific. And honestly, what I get from the test is that the really well made knives aced the test. To really be scientific they'd also need to equalize things like the size and materials of the knives so that the locks were truly the only variable. Which would get prohibitively expensive pretty quick.
 
I don't understand how to incorporate the results of these tests into real-world scenarios.

Say a given knife breaks when you clamp the blade and hang 250 lbs from the handle. How is this relevant, and what does it mean for the user--practically speaking? (honest question)
 
I think it's like saying.....
-Why do you want different/exotic handle materials when FRN & G10 are good enough ?

-Why do you want 154CM, S30V, when realistically 440C is good enough ?

-Why should your knife be ready to field dress 5 deer without sharpening ?

-Why do you have to have S5 or Unimax steel when 3V is probably tough enough ?

-Why should your knife look cool, when it doesn't enhance performance ?

In short, as human beings, we want what we want. Whether it's practical or not..... how you feel about the knife or multitool you carry/use is the biggest factor when purchasing.
 
Last edited:
Cool video. Wish they had more weight to max out that voyager. Pretty surprised the tenacious maxed out. Would like to see a 0550 on that test..
 
Pretty unscientific video not good for much more than cool destruction tests. Looks like they hung the weight from whatever distance on the handle from the pivot they anyone with an elementary grasp of physics knows how that massively effects the forces being applied.
 
this does not really prove anything other than the fact that if done right the lock will hold more than twice my body weight. also why would this kind of thing effect you buying a knife or not? for the last 1.5 years I have carried a friction I made and have only had it close when in use once when I was miss using it.
 
I bet if you took some expensive liner/frame locks those companies would be very upset to have a similar test made public. No point though, even if you did the test, some would claim it's a bad batch, too few samples, rigged the test, damaged the knife prior etc. etc. It's been done in other venues with other products and it's not worth it, no matter how scientific you make it. The fan boy brawl that would result would be epic. It's too bad they didn't put in some axis, ball bearing, compression lock, etc. knives that would likely make the frame/liner locks look even worse.

As for a real world scenario, there's a host of materials you can get your knife stuck in, heavy rubber matting, sternums, pelvic bones that require that type of pressure on the lock to free. However, a rocking motion and some patience usually frees it without heavy effort, certainly no where near 100lbs.

What I take away from it, EVERY liner/frame lock, regardless of if they held the full weight or not was left serious damaged. So the knife might not fail (good for your fingers), but it's new home is the trash can. Liner/frame locks are simply not as strong and durable as other designs, even cheap ones, this is not news. They are popular simply because they are easy (cheaper) to manufacturer (though few do them right and even fewer right consistently) and there's no licensee fees involved.

What's interesting is how many people defend liner/frame locks, usually in the sporting goods/tacticool market, stronger is always better, more optical power, thicker walled cooler, .300 win mag for antelope, 38" tires, 700 horse power, etc. etc. yet in knives people adamantly defend the weaker lock design. Could be a rare display of reason/common sense, or more likely just a statistical anomaly.
 
ToddM said:
What I take away from it, EVERY liner/frame lock, regardless of if they held the full weight or not was left serious damaged. So the knife might not fail (good for your fingers), but it's new home is the trash can. Liner/frame locks are simply not as strong and durable as other designs, even cheap ones, this is not news. They are popular simply because they are easy (cheaper) to manufacturer (though few do them right and even fewer right consistently) and there's no licensee fees involved.

What's interesting is how many people defend liner/frame locks, usually in the sporting goods/tacticool market, stronger is always better, more optical power, thicker walled cooler, .300 win mag for antelope, 38" tires, 700 horse power, etc. etc. yet in knives people adamantly defend the weaker lock design. Could be a rare display of reason/common sense, or more likely just a statistical anomaly.
Click to expand...

A: This is why you shouldn't take ANYTHING away from this test:

Shmavey said:
Am I the only one who noticed that in the case of the lockbacks, the strap holding the weights was wrapped over the locks, thus keeping the lock pressed down and in place. I think that's why they did so well.
Click to expand...

B: Who would argue .300 win mag for rabbit? Who would argue 38in tires for a sports car? Who would argue for 700hp for a daily driver grocery getter?

Most people should have common sense to pick the appropriate tool for the job. 99.99999% of people will never ever exert that kind of force on a liner/frame lock so ease of use is a more valuable feature than lock strength.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top