liner lock vs frame lock vs lock back BHQ video

ToddM said:
As for a real world scenario, there's a host of materials you can get your knife stuck in, heavy rubber matting, sternums, pelvic bones that require that type of pressure on the lock to free. However, a rocking motion and some patience usually frees it without heavy effort, certainly no where near 100lbs.

What I take away from it, EVERY liner/frame lock, regardless of if they held the full weight or not was left serious damaged. So the knife might not fail (good for your fingers), but it's new home is the trash can. Liner/frame locks are simply not as strong and durable as other designs, even cheap ones, this is not news. They are popular simply because they are easy (cheaper) to manufacturer (though few do them right and even fewer right consistently) and there's no licensee fees involved.

What's interesting is how many people defend liner/frame locks, usually in the sporting goods/tacticool market, stronger is always better, more optical power, thicker walled cooler, .300 win mag for antelope, 38" tires, 700 horse power, etc. etc. yet in knives people adamantly defend the weaker lock design. Could be a rare display of reason/common sense, or more likely just a statistical anomaly.
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Not to be rude or anything, but what do know about "real world testing"? I have cut through tires when testing a friction folder and it did not close oh my hands and cut down dozens 1.5 inch trees and it suffered no damage also the blade was only 3/32 of an inch thick. why would anyone try to cut through pelvic bones or sternums with a folding knife?
I think that the reason that framelocks are more popular is because of the ease of opening and closing. look at ZT and Emerson they make hard use folder but still use the framelock over the lock back.
And as for defending a "weaker lock" why does it matter? If I have to do something that would place a huge amount of stress on the lock why wouldn't I use a fixed blade?
 
stabman said:
For sure, especially on the budget models!
I think the moral of the story is to buy from good brands.
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This is exactly what I was thinking. Even the budget entries from spyderco and kershaw outperformed the other liner and frame locks. Useless as the test may be practically, that is a good lesson.
 
MRaymond said:
This is exactly what I was thinking. Even the budget entries from spyderco and kershaw outperformed the other liner and frame locks. Useless as the test may be practically, that is a good lesson.
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I called the first knife to fail in every category. It was pretty easy.
 
Been eyeing the ZT0550 gen2. Have a feeling the new and improved frame lock has been weakened. For a folder that's marketed as heavy duty. Would like to see it tested, both versions.
 
Clan Gunn said:
Been eyeing the ZT0550 gen2. Have a feeling the new and improved frame lock has been weakened. For a folder that's marketed as heavy duty. Would like to see it tested, both versions.
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Why do you feel that?
The lock-bar cut-out is probably the same thickness, hence the strength will be the same.
Just don't stab Russian tanks in an icepick grip with your knife, and all will be well. ;)
 
stabman said:
I think the moral of the story is to buy from good brands.
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Exactly.

I could care less if a lock fails at 150 pounds. I don't drive nails with them.

...BUT... I like knowing that anything I ask a blade to do is easily within it's capability. For this reason, I like to buy from brands whose inexpensive pieces are inexpensive because of material and labor, but aren't lacking in attention to detail with design.

If Spyderco and Kershaw put that much into low end stuff, it should go without saying that their pricier stuff will fare even better.
 
I think a few people are looking too far into this lol. It's just a general comparison between lock types. It never claims to be the end all be all of knife testing. No, it's not the definitive test for the best overall knife either. It's just to compare the way the three most common locking systems handle force in the direction they should. Before this video, I would never have guessed that a lock back design would stand up to more force than a framelock. I think that now my perception of back locks is different. It's certainly more comprehensive testing than I could afford. And for those who are saying that this testing doesn't mean that a stronger knife is necessarily better, doesn't it? If two knives are completely equal in every way, but one performs better here, isn't it the better knife?
 
Next.......lateral testing..........Hopefully, even though it supposedly doesn't matter. LOL
 
Some Axis lock tests;

Lock Strength Data Compilation

1. BM 275 Adamas (7.7 oz) - 1717 lbs of torque (aka: 858 pounds could be hung from 2" away from pivot) [incredible, 2x stronger than any other BM knife tested];

2. BM 520 Presidio (5.6 oz) - 983 lbs of torque (491 pounds at 2" from pivot) [compare: full liners vs. grip partial liners];

3. BM 916 Triage (5.101 oz) - 863 lbs of torque (431 pounds at 2" from pivot)

4. BM 556 Griptilian (3.82 oz) - 763 lbs of torque (381 pounds at 2" from pivot);

5. BM 940 (2.9 oz) - 698 lbs of torque (349 pounds at 2" from pivot);

6. BM 300 Flipper (4.8 oz) - 615 lbs of torque (307 pounds at 2" from pivot).

7. BM 755 Sibert (5.5 oz) - 519 lbs of torque (259 pounds at 2" from pivot);

8. BM 910 (3.8 oz) - 156 lbs of torque (78 pounds at 2" from pivot) [liner lock].
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http://benchmadeforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/356008908001/m/376004358001

858 lbs is just extreme at 2" away from the pivot. Tri-Ad has been measured to 375lbs or something like that, and is considered the strongest lock in existence -- but according to this, the Adamas is like 2 times stronger? Or what?

I'm surprised at the difference between frame locks and linerlocks, especially how the linerlocks bent up. Due to the cutout on framelocks, the strength derived from the thickness is probably similar on most framelocks and linerlocks, and probably those knives, so how come the linerlocks got completely bent, while the framelocks did relatively very well? It almost seems like the linerlocks weren't hardened, or used some really soft steel.
 
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Thanks D-Rock. I am not surprised by the liner locks. I quit carrying them except for certain tasks (I have a Spyderco Cat for travel as it is cheap if lost). I have had liner locks fail on tasks that should have been easy and the detents are never reliable so they come open in your pocket (ouch). My Cat has a bear of a detent and that is why I will tote it. I love lock backs and some more modern locks such as the Axis, Ball, and etc. too. Buck made its reputation on the Lockback 110 that actually holds up. On our cattle farm, we used Buck 110 and 112 as our chore knives and they held up very well indeed. Never a failure, but liner locks were the standing joke.
 
Shmavey said:
Am I the only one who noticed that in the case of the lockbacks, the strap holding the weights was wrapped over the locks, thus keeping the lock pressed down and in place. I think that's why they did so well.
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Did you not notice that it was the knife HANDLES that failed and not the back lock?
 
I really liked liner locks at first cuz they were easy to use one handed, but once I got into other locks like axis/ ballbearing, compression etc. They were pointless. Then I noticed how when handling a liner a tug to the right could easily disengage most. That's when I stopped liking them. Back locks may be old school, but they sho do work!
 
FFK said:
Next.......lateral testing..........Hopefully, even though it supposedly doesn't matter. LOL
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0_o Thick tang and liners secured by strong screws and handle slabs. The only lock I've seen fail from lateral stress is the liner/frame-lock which is prone to failure from all sorts of different stresses. When Jim broke the griptilian, neither the blade nor lock failed, only the weak plastic of the handle, similar to how the Gator in this silly vid failed from the weight slipping down onto the handle (where it should have been to begin with) and ripping the material apart. If lateral stress is at issue, the fix is simple.

[video=youtube;bkRr7452KmI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkRr7452KmI[/video]
 
bradytx said:
I would have liked to seen Spyderco's compression lock and Buck Marksman's Strong Lock tested. Maybe next time.
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Yes, those two with a Benchmade Axis lock thrown in would be cool.

As to this video, I was surprised how well the Buck did. Not that I thought it was a weak knife, just surprised that the older style lock-back did as well as the more highly touted Tri-ad.
 
To all the people who thought the backlocks didn't have an advantage...

Let's see the test reproduced with a friction folder. I bet it would crush every locking knife made.
 
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