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Linville Knife & Tool Hi-tech folder false advertising
- Thread starter WValtakis
- Start date
WValtakis -
Not to get in any peeing match here, but he offered you a complete refund - even AFTER you took the knife completely apart??
I don't know of many manufacturers or custom makers that would have taken that knife back after you disassembled it -- even a $60 knife.
Did you end up sending the knife back or is it still in your possession (I am assuming the latter since you took the pics...) I had understood from an earlier post that you had sent the final knife back and eaten the postage costs...??..
Either way, it sounds as if you aren't happy with the knife or his service -- send it back, get your money and go on to the next guy. Maybe you want to get a kit from someone else and try your hand at making your own rather than having someone else assemble a kit for you.
Sounds like neither of you are communicating very well - especially if the e-mails have come down to name calling on the Internet.
I think it's sorta ironic that you upgraded your membership (good job) so that you can post the photos, but you are spending all this time whining over $60 that he is willing to give you back...
Maybe I am missing something - if so sorry. But I guess I would just cut bait and go on with life. There are so many better things to be spending our energies on
Not to get in any peeing match here, but he offered you a complete refund - even AFTER you took the knife completely apart??
I don't know of many manufacturers or custom makers that would have taken that knife back after you disassembled it -- even a $60 knife.
Did you end up sending the knife back or is it still in your possession (I am assuming the latter since you took the pics...) I had understood from an earlier post that you had sent the final knife back and eaten the postage costs...??..
Either way, it sounds as if you aren't happy with the knife or his service -- send it back, get your money and go on to the next guy. Maybe you want to get a kit from someone else and try your hand at making your own rather than having someone else assemble a kit for you.
Sounds like neither of you are communicating very well - especially if the e-mails have come down to name calling on the Internet.
I think it's sorta ironic that you upgraded your membership (good job) so that you can post the photos, but you are spending all this time whining over $60 that he is willing to give you back...
Maybe I am missing something - if so sorry. But I guess I would just cut bait and go on with life. There are so many better things to be spending our energies on
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2003
- Messages
- 31
original email from Valtakis complained of plier marks on the thumb stud and a mar on the handle under the clip !!!! Somebody please advise what is wrong with this whole scenario......I'm being attacked by some "customer" who didn't want a refund for a knife he bought and decided he didn't want.....he complimented the quality and reminded himself this is a $60 knife.....so I sent another knife and he doesn't want this one either so he got a prompt refund less the actual costs of shipping. Maybe a tad bit of history is relevant here....PLEASE check this "customer" out at www.swordforum.com His ranting over a knife he was trying to sell seems typical of other folks experiences with this character. Have fun guys....I'm outta here. Thankfully I have work to do in the shop....
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 25,390
All other things aside, the whole reason I'm making a big deal out of this is the FRAUD being commited by advertising this knife as a TITANIUM frame lock folder. I can and have lived with blemishes on production knives (although those were usually machining marks rather than pliers), but to outright lie about the materials used in the construction is WRONG. Then he admits it and blames it on the sub-contractors, and me the customer for noticing...all the time still selling it as something it's not, that's disgusting. On top of it all, I really can't understand why a maker capable of the stuff on his home page is wasting his time ripping off people for a $60 "titanium" folder
? If he had sold it as a $45 stainless folder we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
As far as me taking the knife apart, well it's supposed to be a kit right? If I can't take it apart and put it back together without voiding the warranty what's the point?
? If he had sold it as a $45 stainless folder we wouldn't even be having this discussion.As far as me taking the knife apart, well it's supposed to be a kit right? If I can't take it apart and put it back together without voiding the warranty what's the point?
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
Tim, the quality of the knife not withstanding, it is the emails you sent him that are really disturbing. Even in your post here you call him vermin, and in your emails to him you show yourself to be rude, belligerent and totally unprofessional. As I stated earlier, I think that kind of behavior should be reported to the Knifemakers' Guild to see if they think that is the way a member of theirs should treat someone.
WValtakis may not have handled things in the best manner, but your reaction has been uncalled for, unless there has been a whole lot more to this transaction than has appeared in this thread.
WValtakis may not have handled things in the best manner, but your reaction has been uncalled for, unless there has been a whole lot more to this transaction than has appeared in this thread.
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 25,390
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
I recently ordered this knife
from your website and
it arrived yesterday,
upon inspection I found a few
things I thought shoud
be brought to your
attention.
1. There are quite a few
scratches on the thumbstuds,
it looks like someone
used vice grips to tighten them
2. There are a few dings in the
guilloche engraving
on the bolsters,basically small chips near the
edges
3. There's a small ding in one
of the handle slabs
I'm not sure how this knife made
it through the individual inspection but
apparently it did. Now, I do understand
that this is a relatively
inexpensive knife, but when I saw it
advertised in "Blade" as " the finest
folder we've ever offered" I expected
better than this. I don't think it's
too much to ask for a new knife
to be unblemished from the manufacturer.
~Wilfred Valtakis II
On 9/16/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
return it and we'll happily refund
your $, no questions asked. Thanks.
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
From your reply and lack of an offer
to replace rather than refund am I to
assume that this is typical of your
quality control?
On 9/16/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
we have customers who couldn't be
satisfied with a Bob Loveless custom knife.
we don't have time or energy
to get involved in their entertainment.
Our policy is simple....sorry it wasn't made more
clear to you. We'll happily send you another to
replace the knife that was of concern to you OR refund
your monies.
The replacement will go across my desk and
will be the best that is available. Please move
quickly....we have 31 left. Thanks, Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
Thanks, that sounds like a plan. I
really don't mean to be picky, but I'm
sure when you see the thumbstuds you'll
see what I meant. Should I just ship
it back with a note on Monday?
On 9/16/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'll most likely pick it up at the post
office. Anything that comes back comes to me.
Titanium bolsters are guilloche cut....extremely
touchy.
I'll pick out as close to perfect as we have on
hand. Thanks and have a nice weekend. You'll be
pleased when we resolve these issues....promise !
Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
< rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
Right on, it'll go out Monday morning. On a
lighter note, aside from the few
blemishes the knife is an amazing piece for
the price, thanks again.
On 9/17/06, TIM BRITTON <timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
wait til you see what I'm fixing up for you !
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
I checked the tracking for my knife and it shows
being delivered on the
20th, just wondering if my replacement has been
shipped out yet? Thanks
again for making this right.
~Wilfred Valtakis II
On 9/23/06, TIM BRITTON <timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
scheduled for shipment via priority insured on
Monday.
Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
I recieved the knife on Thursday and I appreciate
you taking the time to
make sure I got a good one. I had a chance to take a
good look over it last
night though and unfortunately I ran across a few
discrepancies that really
need to be addressed. I'd prefer to discuss this
over the phone if possible,
if you could please give me call I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
~Wilfred Valtakis II
On 10/4/06, TIM BRITTON <timbritton@yahoo.com> wrote:
Chip.....you received a knife handmade by Chris
Hammond here in my shop. He even marked the blade
"Chris" with an engraver and then polished it out
before refinishing the blade ! We are extremely busy
and my offer stands....any issues and we will
immediately refund your $.....just that simple.
Thanks, Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
rachalspet@gmail.com>wrote:
Thanks, unfortunately I will be shipping it back for a refund
first thing Monday morning. The point "sits proud" (is exposed)
when the knife is closed and is unsafe to carry. I also have a
question about the materials used in the construction,
all the advertising says this is a Titanium frame lock but
the liners appear to be stainless (they're magnetic)
and I'm not sure about the bolsters ? Any explanation for this?
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
I recently ordered this knife
from your website and
it arrived yesterday,
upon inspection I found a few
things I thought shoud
be brought to your
attention.
1. There are quite a few
scratches on the thumbstuds,
it looks like someone
used vice grips to tighten them
2. There are a few dings in the
guilloche engraving
on the bolsters,basically small chips near the
edges
3. There's a small ding in one
of the handle slabs
I'm not sure how this knife made
it through the individual inspection but
apparently it did. Now, I do understand
that this is a relatively
inexpensive knife, but when I saw it
advertised in "Blade" as " the finest
folder we've ever offered" I expected
better than this. I don't think it's
too much to ask for a new knife
to be unblemished from the manufacturer.
~Wilfred Valtakis II
On 9/16/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
return it and we'll happily refund
your $, no questions asked. Thanks.
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
From your reply and lack of an offer
to replace rather than refund am I to
assume that this is typical of your
quality control?
On 9/16/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
we have customers who couldn't be
satisfied with a Bob Loveless custom knife.
we don't have time or energy
to get involved in their entertainment.
Our policy is simple....sorry it wasn't made more
clear to you. We'll happily send you another to
replace the knife that was of concern to you OR refund
your monies.
The replacement will go across my desk and
will be the best that is available. Please move
quickly....we have 31 left. Thanks, Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
Thanks, that sounds like a plan. I
really don't mean to be picky, but I'm
sure when you see the thumbstuds you'll
see what I meant. Should I just ship
it back with a note on Monday?
On 9/16/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'll most likely pick it up at the post
office. Anything that comes back comes to me.
Titanium bolsters are guilloche cut....extremely
touchy.
I'll pick out as close to perfect as we have on
hand. Thanks and have a nice weekend. You'll be
pleased when we resolve these issues....promise !
Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
< rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
Right on, it'll go out Monday morning. On a
lighter note, aside from the few
blemishes the knife is an amazing piece for
the price, thanks again.
On 9/17/06, TIM BRITTON <timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
wait til you see what I'm fixing up for you !
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
I checked the tracking for my knife and it shows
being delivered on the
20th, just wondering if my replacement has been
shipped out yet? Thanks
again for making this right.
~Wilfred Valtakis II
On 9/23/06, TIM BRITTON <timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
scheduled for shipment via priority insured on
Monday.
Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
I recieved the knife on Thursday and I appreciate
you taking the time to
make sure I got a good one. I had a chance to take a
good look over it last
night though and unfortunately I ran across a few
discrepancies that really
need to be addressed. I'd prefer to discuss this
over the phone if possible,
if you could please give me call I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
~Wilfred Valtakis II
On 10/4/06, TIM BRITTON <timbritton@yahoo.com> wrote:
Chip.....you received a knife handmade by Chris
Hammond here in my shop. He even marked the blade
"Chris" with an engraver and then polished it out
before refinishing the blade ! We are extremely busy
and my offer stands....any issues and we will
immediately refund your $.....just that simple.
Thanks, Tim
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
rachalspet@gmail.com>wrote:
Thanks, unfortunately I will be shipping it back for a refund
first thing Monday morning. The point "sits proud" (is exposed)
when the knife is closed and is unsafe to carry. I also have a
question about the materials used in the construction,
all the advertising says this is a Titanium frame lock but
the liners appear to be stainless (they're magnetic)
and I'm not sure about the bolsters ? Any explanation for this?
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 25,390
On 10/16/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
refunding on your credit card today.
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
We still have not received our refund
for the unsafe knife purchase that was returned.
Wilfred Valtakis
On 10/19/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
your credit card was credited for the
value of the "unsafe knie that was returned".
Have you tried plastic ?
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
OK, so I got the refund for $60.00 tonight, the
problem is that you initially charged me $65.00
on September 11, not to mention the $10.00 or
so I wasted on shipping it back to you twice.
Also, I have yet to recieve an answer to my questions
regarding the materials used in the construction of
the knife. I don't know who you think you're fooling
but it's false advertising to sell a knife as a
titanium framelock when there's no titanium on it at all,
I only wonder at what the blade steel is. I have half
a mind to contact the Better Business Bureau, as well
as Blade Magazine regarding their recent cover knife.
As far as my ability to safely use a knife, the fact
that you hold it against me that I don't feel safe
carrying a knife with an exposed point only shows
that you have no regard for your customer or their safety.
Regards,
Wilfred Valtakis II
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
re shipping....we wasted $ shipping product to you for
your critique of a good $60 knife. You were advised
long ago that we would refund your purchase price and
you refused that option. you received another knife
and then sent that back. we don't have time for your
fun and games. Thankfully, the knife is sold out and
we have a 31 name waiting list in the event we make
more. Of 600 knives shipped, we received 2
back....yours and one that got messed up really badly
in the mails. Case is closed for us. Tim
PS....many of we makers keep a fruitcake list. Don't
expect me/us to sit idly by if and when you make
threats to call and write everyone but the pope !
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
And yet you still refuse to address the issue of materials?
And the $5 discrepancy between what I paid on 9/11 and what
you refunded yesterday?
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
you paid for freight on the first knife, we paid for
freight on the second knife.....sounds as if we're out
$5 to me....
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
Ok, you STILL haven't addressed the fact that there's
no titanium involved in the construction of the knife...
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
not sure why I keep answering your emails....but here
goes....we sub everything but blade and have to trust
our vendors. Someone else contacted us re trying to
anodize bolster and it turned muddy. This is what you
get when you try to color T6 aircraft aluminum, which
is much easier to machine and can be molded.
Liners are titanium....not sure what grade this is....
it came from Sheffield Supply....good reputable
source. It colors to a nice blue....has to be Ti. to
color like this. One of the realities of being a
small cutlery house....we sub a lot. Only thing NEVER
subbed is blade....next knife will use S30V and we
plan to use this exclusively with future models. We
have about 60# of Ti liner stock....it is unavailable
anywhere due to war demands....mills quoting 1 yr.
delay. we even tried Brazil and China. At some point
we will have to go back to SS but customers will be
advised accordingly.
We have/had NO control over what BLADE writes about
us.....or fact that they put our knife on the cover.
Their writer got a knife and a kit and wrote the story
without much input from us....and that's the latest on
us and our dedication to do the best we can in a wierd
market. Do we make more $60 knives ? Go for $100 or
back to $36 knife kits ? We may do all of the above.
One thing you can depend on....whatever we do will be
"cutting edge designs". I find what is available from
everybody but CRKT to be quite lifeless and boring.
Take care....hope your weekend goes well, and maybe
our next product will be to your liking. We've got 3
more designs in the works right now. Tim
PS....going to a Hammer-In this weekend. One gets
close to you, go. They are a blast !
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
What, no more snappy replies? Oh well, I thought
you might like to know that I've sent an email to
the editor of Blade Magazine regarding this, and
here's a link to the review of the knife...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430086
Have a nice day
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
"Liners are titanium....not sure what grade this is....
it came from Sheffield Supply....good reputable
source. It colors to a nice blue....has to be Ti. to
color like this."
Might want to check your source...there's no such thing
magnetic titanium, and the fact that you still advertise
the knife as having titanium bolsters even though you know
that they're not IS false advertising.
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Thanks....you're a sweetheart. Now I'll have to take
a few minutes of my time to reply to your wacko
postings and grumblings....please be assured that I
will be thorough.
Have fun....maybe your daddy never told you that you
shouldn't ever get in a pissing contest with a skunk.
Have fun wacko....I sure will.
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
Gee, 3 1/2 hours since your reply and no response to
my "wacko postings and grumblings", I guess it's hard
to argue with being called a fraud when it's true...
On 10/23/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
hey wormy piece of shit....have I ever got a surprise
for you ! Enjoy your forums....you'd better hide your
rotten ass.
That's been it, other than what he posted on the forums.
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
refunding on your credit card today.
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com> wrote:
We still have not received our refund
for the unsafe knife purchase that was returned.
Wilfred Valtakis
On 10/19/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
your credit card was credited for the
value of the "unsafe knie that was returned".
Have you tried plastic ?
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
OK, so I got the refund for $60.00 tonight, the
problem is that you initially charged me $65.00
on September 11, not to mention the $10.00 or
so I wasted on shipping it back to you twice.
Also, I have yet to recieve an answer to my questions
regarding the materials used in the construction of
the knife. I don't know who you think you're fooling
but it's false advertising to sell a knife as a
titanium framelock when there's no titanium on it at all,
I only wonder at what the blade steel is. I have half
a mind to contact the Better Business Bureau, as well
as Blade Magazine regarding their recent cover knife.
As far as my ability to safely use a knife, the fact
that you hold it against me that I don't feel safe
carrying a knife with an exposed point only shows
that you have no regard for your customer or their safety.
Regards,
Wilfred Valtakis II
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
re shipping....we wasted $ shipping product to you for
your critique of a good $60 knife. You were advised
long ago that we would refund your purchase price and
you refused that option. you received another knife
and then sent that back. we don't have time for your
fun and games. Thankfully, the knife is sold out and
we have a 31 name waiting list in the event we make
more. Of 600 knives shipped, we received 2
back....yours and one that got messed up really badly
in the mails. Case is closed for us. Tim
PS....many of we makers keep a fruitcake list. Don't
expect me/us to sit idly by if and when you make
threats to call and write everyone but the pope !
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
And yet you still refuse to address the issue of materials?
And the $5 discrepancy between what I paid on 9/11 and what
you refunded yesterday?
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
you paid for freight on the first knife, we paid for
freight on the second knife.....sounds as if we're out
$5 to me....
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
Ok, you STILL haven't addressed the fact that there's
no titanium involved in the construction of the knife...
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
not sure why I keep answering your emails....but here
goes....we sub everything but blade and have to trust
our vendors. Someone else contacted us re trying to
anodize bolster and it turned muddy. This is what you
get when you try to color T6 aircraft aluminum, which
is much easier to machine and can be molded.
Liners are titanium....not sure what grade this is....
it came from Sheffield Supply....good reputable
source. It colors to a nice blue....has to be Ti. to
color like this. One of the realities of being a
small cutlery house....we sub a lot. Only thing NEVER
subbed is blade....next knife will use S30V and we
plan to use this exclusively with future models. We
have about 60# of Ti liner stock....it is unavailable
anywhere due to war demands....mills quoting 1 yr.
delay. we even tried Brazil and China. At some point
we will have to go back to SS but customers will be
advised accordingly.
We have/had NO control over what BLADE writes about
us.....or fact that they put our knife on the cover.
Their writer got a knife and a kit and wrote the story
without much input from us....and that's the latest on
us and our dedication to do the best we can in a wierd
market. Do we make more $60 knives ? Go for $100 or
back to $36 knife kits ? We may do all of the above.
One thing you can depend on....whatever we do will be
"cutting edge designs". I find what is available from
everybody but CRKT to be quite lifeless and boring.
Take care....hope your weekend goes well, and maybe
our next product will be to your liking. We've got 3
more designs in the works right now. Tim
PS....going to a Hammer-In this weekend. One gets
close to you, go. They are a blast !
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
What, no more snappy replies? Oh well, I thought
you might like to know that I've sent an email to
the editor of Blade Magazine regarding this, and
here's a link to the review of the knife...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430086
Have a nice day
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
"Liners are titanium....not sure what grade this is....
it came from Sheffield Supply....good reputable
source. It colors to a nice blue....has to be Ti. to
color like this."
Might want to check your source...there's no such thing
magnetic titanium, and the fact that you still advertise
the knife as having titanium bolsters even though you know
that they're not IS false advertising.
On 10/20/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Thanks....you're a sweetheart. Now I'll have to take
a few minutes of my time to reply to your wacko
postings and grumblings....please be assured that I
will be thorough.
Have fun....maybe your daddy never told you that you
shouldn't ever get in a pissing contest with a skunk.
Have fun wacko....I sure will.
--- "Wilfred \"Chip\" Valtakis II"
<rachalspet@gmail.com > wrote:
Gee, 3 1/2 hours since your reply and no response to
my "wacko postings and grumblings", I guess it's hard
to argue with being called a fraud when it's true...
On 10/23/06, TIM BRITTON
<timbritton@yahoo.com>
wrote:
hey wormy piece of shit....have I ever got a surprise
for you ! Enjoy your forums....you'd better hide your
rotten ass.
That's been it, other than what he posted on the forums.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2001
- Messages
- 12,348
That's an interesting set of responses, Chip. I would say that Mr. Britton handled the transaction as he promised, and flatly offered to refund you at YOUR dissatisfaction of the first and second folder. Instead of accepting you continued to berate him to the point where he berated you in return. I think that's human.
I don't like to see a transaction like this degrade for anyone, but I can't see where you needed to press on. Just take the refund and be done with it.
I handled one of these folders, and I gotta say, it was well worth the $60. Of course it is a production knife and not all will be the same. Sounds like you had legitimate reasons to return it.
But your subsequent hard interrogation and baiting him on was uncalled for.
I have had numerous professional opportunities to work with Tim Britton, and this scenario is hard to witness. Return shipping funding from most ANY retailer is always on the customer's shoulders. This is nothing new in the retail industry. This blasting is all about your $5.00 shipping not being refunded?
I don't want to get involved, but I want to be able to support someone who I admire and believe in.
Coop
I don't like to see a transaction like this degrade for anyone, but I can't see where you needed to press on. Just take the refund and be done with it.
I handled one of these folders, and I gotta say, it was well worth the $60. Of course it is a production knife and not all will be the same. Sounds like you had legitimate reasons to return it.
But your subsequent hard interrogation and baiting him on was uncalled for.
I have had numerous professional opportunities to work with Tim Britton, and this scenario is hard to witness. Return shipping funding from most ANY retailer is always on the customer's shoulders. This is nothing new in the retail industry. This blasting is all about your $5.00 shipping not being refunded?
I don't want to get involved, but I want to be able to support someone who I admire and believe in.
Coop
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- May 29, 2004
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Once again, the bottom line is it's NOT titanium, that's what this is all about. If he wanted to stop advertising it as being constructed out of titanium than this could have stopped a while ago. I don't like being defrauded and I don't like the thought of it happening to other unsuspecting people as well. I don't think trying to get a straight answer from a maker about what your knife is made out of is interrogation either.
After reading all the e-mails I have to say I agree with Coop - Tim obviously lost his cool there a bit (no question on that) but I would equate WV's behavior as "pokin with a stick"...
I have dealt with LOTS of custom makers as well as dealers and manufacturers. News alert - they are human! Who would have thought it. Sometimes they lose their cool. Especially when pushed - not to mention bad mouthed here where it can be a free for all.
The customer is always right... until they become such a pain in the butt that no amount of placating will shut them up - then they aren't customers anymore - they are just one more thing between you and getting your job done for the real customers.
Looks like you made him aware of the titanium issue and he is questioning his supplier.... what more do you want from him at this point when you aren't even a customer?
I have dealt with LOTS of custom makers as well as dealers and manufacturers. News alert - they are human! Who would have thought it. Sometimes they lose their cool. Especially when pushed - not to mention bad mouthed here where it can be a free for all.
The customer is always right... until they become such a pain in the butt that no amount of placating will shut them up - then they aren't customers anymore - they are just one more thing between you and getting your job done for the real customers.
Looks like you made him aware of the titanium issue and he is questioning his supplier.... what more do you want from him at this point when you aren't even a customer?
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- May 9, 2000
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- 29,205
Tim posted, "Nice knife, prompt refund.....what does this creep want". At what point did WValtakis get a nice knife? He got two poorly made knives that are likely not even made from the materials that are advertised. If I were him I would have sent some rather stern emails to Linville Knife & Tool myself. It doesn't matter one bit that it is only a $60.00 knife. I've seen many $60.00 knives that didn't have any of the problems described here. There never was a nice or good $60.00 knife provided to the customer.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2003
- Messages
- 31
All very interesting.....file suit, call the guild, call the FBI....good counsel for a distressed fruitcake. You guys have fun talking to each other. by the way Mr. Montgomery....you seem to know an awful lot about this transaction and the knives....have you seen either of them or checked into the reliability of wackos story ? I note 16,979 posts....you must be really enjoying yourself. One of these lousy knives is in a show at Southeast Center for Creative Arts, one of the most prestigious Art Centers in the USA....guess they and the folks at BLADE and the author of the story in BLADE and noted photographer Jim Cooper, and B.R. Hughes and Jim Batson don't know knives. Their admiration for this product was based on having one or more in their hands......what is your opinion based on, other than postings by some wacko ? Have fun.......
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
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- 7,385
Wow
THis entire affair should have ended in totality with the refund!!!
The buyer did not like the knife, the seller send him another. The buyer did not like the replacement knife and the seller sent him his money back.
What else is left??
THis entire affair should have ended in totality with the refund!!!
The buyer did not like the knife, the seller send him another. The buyer did not like the replacement knife and the seller sent him his money back.
What else is left??
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
There are photos of the second knife in this thread. It is totally unacceptable. The fact that the people at Blade magazine and Coop were pleased with the knife doesn't really say anything, because it is likely that they received hand picked examples. If I was having an article written, or photgraphs taken, I would make sure that the knives sent out for these purposes were in excellent condition. The knife photographed by WValtakis was not in excellent condition, and it showed liners that were hanging from a magnet. Not something that would happen if the liners were titanium.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 77,076
Wow
THis entire affair should have ended in totality with the refund!!!
The buyer did not like the knife, the seller send him another. The buyer did not like the replacement knife and the seller sent him his money back.
What else is left??
Well, there still could be some interest in this magnetic titanium. Other knifemakers might want to know where they can get their hands on some of that stuff.
Isn't it possible that one of Tim's suppliers either inadvertantly or intentionally sent him the wrong material? I have no stake in this dispute as I have not dealt with either party but if Tim has sold 600 or more of these knives and most or all are in fact not titanium, wouldn't we have heard complaints from others? Again, I don't know Tim nor have I bought any of his knives but it seems that the financial gain for him to purposely misrepresent the knife is far outweighed by the possible legal and public relations ramifications. Afterall we are talking about a $60 knife, not a $600 knife. Just my $.02.
Ed
I've been reading this at a friends house, but decided to make an account to post something. Looking at the knife pictures WValtakis posted, and the picture of the 'titanium frame-lock' knife on Linville Tool and Knife, something struck me as odd.
The scripts for Linville on the pictures are different. (By the thumbstud on the knifeblade) I doubt that WValtakis received the knife that was advertised, and as such, I don't blame him for trying to get to the bottom of the 'magic' magnetic titanium. I would have had questions too. And with Mr. Britton being so non-forthcoming over the simple questions of materials used in the knife's production, I would have pressed the matter too. How many others ordered this knife and didn't receive what it is that they thought they would?
The scripts for Linville on the pictures are different. (By the thumbstud on the knifeblade) I doubt that WValtakis received the knife that was advertised, and as such, I don't blame him for trying to get to the bottom of the 'magic' magnetic titanium. I would have had questions too. And with Mr. Britton being so non-forthcoming over the simple questions of materials used in the knife's production, I would have pressed the matter too. How many others ordered this knife and didn't receive what it is that they thought they would?
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- May 29, 2004
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- 25,390
It seems like a lot of people are missing my point, so here it is again...
The liners and bolsters on the knife I received are not titanium!
Since I bought the knife under the impression that they were, this constitutes fraud. If Tim really wanted to settle this he would have answered my questions when I first asked him, but here's another chance anyways.
Tim,
1. Why was the knife I recieved different from advertised?
2. Is there any titanium used in the construction of any of these knives?
3. If you are aware of the problem as we can assume from your blaming of the sub-contractors, why are you still selling these knives as "titanium frame-lock folders"?
I don't think these are unreasonable questions based on the circumstances, and I'm much more concerned about the answers to these than a few blemishes.
The liners and bolsters on the knife I received are not titanium!
Since I bought the knife under the impression that they were, this constitutes fraud. If Tim really wanted to settle this he would have answered my questions when I first asked him, but here's another chance anyways.
Tim,
1. Why was the knife I recieved different from advertised?
2. Is there any titanium used in the construction of any of these knives?
3. If you are aware of the problem as we can assume from your blaming of the sub-contractors, why are you still selling these knives as "titanium frame-lock folders"?
I don't think these are unreasonable questions based on the circumstances, and I'm much more concerned about the answers to these than a few blemishes.