Liu Kang (Dan Huang) - when is enough...well, enough?

Status
Not open for further replies.
To me the whole self insurance thing should be addressed if he does not have all the stuff needed to legally offer insurance.
If someone pays for insurance you should buy it for them if you can not offer it legally and above board yourself.
 
Jerry Busse said:
I'm a bit lost here as well. . . . :confused:

LK is not a sanctioned Busse dealer. He is a customer. Period. He pays the same for his knives as everyone else does. If he buys at the Blade Show, or any other show, he gets the same deal or show special discount as everyone else gets at that show.

However, if he is harming our reputation by association, and this harm is based on factual information, not an ocean of speculation and piling on, we will put an end to it.

My several years of grad school taught me two things. . . First and foremost, “Drink a lot”. . . Second, make sure your facts are solid and not based on hearsay or unsubstantiated opinions.

So, if you have been personally wronged by LK on a Busse Knife Group deal, or you know of someone who claims this, please contact them to send me an email at jerry@bussecombat.com

I do not want hearsay, speculation, links to threads that are endless, personal feelings, or any unfounded accusations. . . . just facts.

I do not know enough about the secondary market resale rules and regulations on BF to comment on that aspect. That info should be sent to Spark.

I only want to hear from those who have been personally involved in a Busse Knife Group deal gone wrong and have actual proof of wrong doing.

With all of the accusations flying around, I have yet to be contacted by anyone.

Present us with facts that prove intentional wrong doing. . . and we will drop the hammer on LK.

Thanks, :thumbup:

Jerry :D.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, Mr. Busse....

I'm hesitant somewhat to make this post, as these things don't really effect myself or my forum, But they are effecting Bladeforums as a site also, out of respect and concern for you, your forum and BFc in general :

I think it's important that you take the time to investigate these things for yourself and not rely on others to inform you. It is your product and business that is concerned here.

Whether the accusations are founded or unfounded, based on fact or fantasy, the fact remains that Liu Kang is hurting your business and your reputation. He is also hurting Bladeforums business and reputation. That much is quite clear to an observer.

As a businessman, you should be well aware of the effect that "guilt by association" can have on ones livelihood. By sticking up for Liu Kang and asking for special permissions for him, it can be percieved by your customers that you condone and endorse his poor business practices, His Spamming, His forcing of New Rules and his monopolisation of the individual Busse product sales forum. Not to mention the Dealers forum.

People will be hesitant to inform you of these things personally, if it is felt that they are wasting their time and their grievances will fall on deaf ears.

Opinions can be as powerful as facts. Just because they are opinion does not mean they should be dismissed. In fact, it is more reason, probably, that they be properly addressed and be given as much thought or more than has been given Liu Kang.

One can plainly see that your forum has lost it's charm for many notable old guard hogs because of Liu Kangs participation and monopolisation of your forum/s. Some have even voiced their opinions in some of the other various threads. One can only wonder about how many just walk away without saying a word.

Also, many current customers and potential customers have voiced their opinions in this thread and the several others about this matter.

When so many customers are voiceing a Public outcry, It seems that it would bear investigation and listening to.



These are single post links to people who've plainly stated that they do not participate in your forum or purchase your product because of the effect Liu Kang has had. And Links to people who feel he is harming your business. These are from this 10 page thread alone.
There are others in various parts of bladeforums.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9937558#post9937558

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9942059#post9942059

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9942120#post9942120

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9942532#post9942532

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9943312#post9943312

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9943980#post9943980

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9943994#post9943994

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9944124#post9944124

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9944153#post9944153

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9944215#post9944215

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9944370#post9944370

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9944411#post9944411

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9944430#post9944430

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9946011#post9946011

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9946111#post9946111

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9946165#post9946165

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9946385#post9946385

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9947422#post9947422

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9947469#post9947469

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...is-enough...well-enough?p=9948541#post9948541
 
Last edited:
FWIW, I am one of the Hogs who no longer frequents the Busse subforum largely due to Liu Kang's shenanigans.
 
As long as we are being completely forthright, I will say that I too post and peruse there MUCH less, and I attribute that to Liu Kang and his antics there. Just to be clear, there are many good people that go there, but LK really has really soured the whole sub-forum and experience. And no matter which way you slice it, less of a presence on the Busse sub-forum = less Busse knives purchased. If one does not go to the forum, one generally has no idea what is available and when.
 
Karda said:
With all due respect, Mr. Busse....

I think it's important that you take the time to investigate these things for yourself and not rely on others to inform you. It is your product and business that is concerned here.
Click to expand...

That is what I am doing. That is why I posted this inquiry.


Karda said:

Whether the accusations are founded or unfounded, based on fact or fantasy, the fact remains that Liu Kang is hurting your business and your reputation. He is also hurting Bladeforums business and reputation. That much is quite clear to an observer.
Click to expand...

Yowza! :eek: . . . . I strongly disagree with you. . . . It is of utmost importance that these accusations are based on fact.

History is littered with false witchhunts. I will not be party to one of them.



Karda said:
By sticking up for Liu Kang and asking for special permissions for him, it can be percieved by your customers that you condone and endorse his poor business practices, His Spamming, His forcing of New Rules and his monopolisation of the individual Busse product sales forum. Not to mention the Dealers forum.
Click to expand...

I have not asked for special permissions just for him. I have explained this in my previous post. I personally do not care which forum (Individual or Dealer) he posts in. I called Spark to express a concern made by many other Busse customers as well and he agreed that keeping all of the Busse Knife sales in the same forum would solve any concerns.


Karda said:
People will be hesitant to inform you of these things personally, if it is felt that they are wasting their time and their grievances will fall on deaf ears.
Click to expand...

I think that I have made it quite clear that they will not be wasting their time and have encouraged them to email me directly about any issues that they have had directly with LK.


Karda said:
Opinions can be as powerful as facts. Just because they are opinion does not mean they should be dismissed. In fact they should probably be addressed.
Click to expand...

An unsubstantiated, unsupported opinion is nothing more than a childish judgement based on emotion rather than fact. Simply finding others who agree with you will never magically turn your opinion into fact. I am only interested in the facts. I do not join in on "pile ons" or get swept up in emotional rhetoric. I am open to hearing all substantiated wrong doings by LK and will base our decision on that alone.

Thanks, :thumbup:

Jerry :D


.
 
moonwilson said:
FWIW, I am one of the Hogs who no longer frequents the Busse subforum largely due to Liu Kang's shenanigans.
Click to expand...


on_the_edge said:
As long as we are being completely forthright, I will say that I too post and peruse there MUCH less, and I attribute that to Liu Kang and his antics there. Just to be clear, there are many good people that go there, but LK really has really soured the whole sub-forum and experience. And no matter which way you slice it, less of a presence on the Busse sub-forum = less Busse knives purchased. If one does not go to the forum, one generally has no idea what is available and when.
Click to expand...

Moon! . . . Chris!,

We miss you guys! Come on back! The bacon is hot and the beer is still cold!!! :thumbup: :D

Hey, I go to lots of parties where I'm not a big fan of everyone who attends . . . . I just look past them and focus on the fun part ! ! ! ! . . .

Please email me with exactly what he did to you two HOGs . . . . I don't take kindly to anyone who messes with my friends. . . :grumpy:

Let's Drink! :thumbup:

Jerry :D.
 
Jerry Busse said:

That is what I am doing. That is why I posted this inquiry.




Yowza! :eek: . . . . I strongly disagree with you. . . . It is of utmost importance that these accusations are based on fact.

History is littered with false witchhunts. I will not be party to one of them.





I have not asked for special permissions just for him. I have explained this in my previous post. I personally do not care which forum (Individual or Dealer) he posts in. I called Spark to express a concern made by many other Busse customers as well and he agreed that keeping all of the Busse Knife sales in the same forum would solve any concerns.




I think that I have made it quite clear that they will not be wasting their time and have encouraged them to email me directly about any issues that they have had directly with LK.




An unsubstantiated, unsupported opinion is nothing more than a childish judgement based on emotion rather than fact. Simply finding others who agree with you will never magically turn your opinion into fact. I am only interested in the facts. I do not join in on "pile ons" or get swept up in emotional rhetoric. I am open to hearing all substantiated wrong doings by LK and will base our decision on that alone.

Thanks, :thumbup:

Jerry :D


.
Click to expand...

In this game, Perceptions are as real as any fact. Customers will base their purchases upon them as well as any fact. Liu Kangs aforementioned transgressions are well documented on this site. It is probably best not to label these threads as childish, pile on's or witch hunts, because they are your customers and potential customers concerns.
 
Karda said:
In this game, Perceptions are as real as any fact. Customers will base their purchases upon them as well as any fact. Liu Kangs aforementioned transgressions are well documented on this site. It is probably best not to label these threads as childish, pile on's or witch hunts, because they are your customers and potential customers concerns.
Click to expand...

Perceptions are perhaps more powerful than facts, but rarely as real.

The fact is, I did not label any thread as childish. I said that, " An unsubstantiated, unsupported opinion is nothing more than a childish judgement." I also said that I do not participate in pile ons or witchhunts. Please do not twist my words or misinterpret what I have written.

I appreciate your opinion, but I am only interested in hearing from customers who have been personally wronged by LK in their dealings over a Busse Knife Group product.

Thanks,

Jerry.
 
Jerry Busse said:
Perceptions are perhaps more powerful than facts, but rarely as real.

The fact is, I did not label any thread as childish. I said that, " An unsubstantiated, unsupported opinion is nothing more than a childish judgement." I also said that I do not participate in pile ons or witchhunts. Please do not twist my words or misinterpret what I have written.

I appreciate your opinion, but I am only interested in hearing from customers who have been personally wronged by LK in their dealings over a Busse Knife Group product.

Thanks,

Jerry.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.
I don't think i misinterpreted or twisted your words at all.
I am but a salesman and moderator of a small forum.
 
u812 said:
To me the whole self insurance thing should be addressed if he does not have all the stuff needed to legally offer insurance.
If someone pays for insurance you should buy it for them if you can not offer it legally and above board yourself.
Click to expand...

Email has been sent for payment info to return the funds.
 
You sold him a knife. You know his name and address.
 
Liu Kang said:

Email has been sent for payment info to return the funds.
Click to expand...

UNBELIEVABLE!
May as well be an admission of guilt only after Spark and Jerry get involved. Almost a full year later.
I can only repeat the title of this thread.
 
Mr. Kang.....
Will you also be refunding any and all monies to any others whom you've forgotten:rolleyes: to purchase insurance for? If you've done it once.........
 
Last edited:
Liu Kang,

From my observation, you have been charging everyone extra money for "insurance", but without ever legally providing any. I think that you owe a lot more people than just one person a refund.
 
I'm sure there are many many people that have paid LK to insure a purchase and received it uninsured and poorly packed (myself included/SFNOLE). Unfortunately, most probably noticed the lack of insurance but brushed it off as an oversight and didn't make an issue of it. Fast forward and we all know it wasn't and that he has been self insuring and pocketing the money.

I suggest anyone buying anything from him request a picture of the USPS receipt showing the services purchased and tracking number.

Upon receiving the parcel, a check of the insurance, tracking and postage tag on the box should be done to ensure he is buying the services he is receiving monies for. If they don't match up, provide pictures to a GB&U thread for all to see. Also photo any lack of effort to properly ensure the knife will not put anyone's safety in jeopardy.
 
Last edited:
Liu Kang said:

Email has been sent for payment info to return the funds.
Click to expand...


So why the change of heart now? You insisited from the very beginning you were never the one at fault. You fought tooth and nail with everyone who thought
you were wrong. So why is it now you finally take action and do what you should have done over a year ago??

It cant be because Spark got involved now would it. What does that say about your character? How should people percieve this?
I for one think your a disgrace and you should hold your head down in shame. You have no honor, no integrity, and are a coward.
 
snowreaper1 said:
So why the change of heart now? You insisited from the very beginning you were never the one at fault. You fought tooth and nail with everyone who thought
you were wrong. So why is it now you finally take action and do what you should have done over a year ago??

It cant be because Spark got involved now would it. What does that say about your character? How should people percieve this?
I for one think your a disgrace and you should hold your head down in shame. You have no honor, no integrity, and are a coward.
Click to expand...

I don't believe he'll go away, start a website as a legit business, etc. That's how I perceive this transparent capitulation of $11.
 
My Busse,

My collection of Busse Combat knives has stopped at 2 and will forever remain at that number. The reason why I stopped is because I did not like how your subforum changed from a community into nothing more than an constant "in your face" commercial for Liu Kang's knives. The fact that he does not contribute more than a ready willingness to take-over your forum as his personal sales audience has made me not want to ever have anything more to do with Busse Combat knives. What I have learned since that initial perception about Dan Huang's ethical lapses merely enforces my wishes to stop collecting your knives.

I am sure that I am not the only knife collector that has been turned-off by the antics of one person monopolizing your forum for his personal enrichment.

If you are only interested in hearing from people who have been "wronged" by Liu Kang, then I am not in that number, but if you are interested in hearing from knife collectors who have sworn off your products, then count me as one of them.

Best regards,
CWL
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top