Liu Kang (Dan Huang) - when is enough...well, enough?

[Infi-del]

That's not a conspiracy at all..just a fact.A fact as in when someone sells something that is in limited supply for a much higher price than originally offered,it brings value of the the whole brand up.The whole Busse buying process is that people feel they need to buy it because they have no idea how long it will be available.It's a business model,and it works.If something is sold out,it creates a demand and higher prices..much like generators after a hurricane.

It all lies in line with HOW Busse knives are sold...Ganzas,knife shows,first come first served,not saying how many of a certain knife is produced,it all adds to the value of a brand.

It works with a lot of people,but it also turns plenty of people off.

Like me.

Busse knives in my opinion are one of the best,if not the best fixed blade knives made.I only own 2 Busse's now,and sold off two.I will end up keeping only one and never sell it.

Why ? I can afford to buy a lot of Busse's.

But what I don't have is the patience required to sit by the computer and send two emails to Busse during one of the Ganzas...Only hoping and not knowing if what I wanted is available,or 50% of what was being offered scooped up by one guy that will mark them up 30%..I am also not going to travel to a knife show in the hopes that a dealer with seemingly endless funds bought out the whole table,leaving only scraps and me walking away empty handed or with something that I bought just to justify going to a knife show.

So did LK have a bearing on why I don't spend thousands collecting Busse knives ? Absolutely.

Does LK business practice fall in line with how Busse markets their knives ? IMO,absolutely.

I'm sure Busse or LK will not be affected by my decision to NOT buy any more Busse's,it is just what I decided to do to save myself the frustration.Collecting knives is supposed to be fun,not a stress filled circus during an online Ganza.

Busse creates a sense of false scarcity with his products. Other companies do it as well with sprint runs and limited editions. Liu Kang takes advantage of this like a vulture. But... this makes it clear that there are some that will look down on Busse because of LK. Reason enough to get rid of him.

 

[emopunker2004]

Since the mods have stated this is to discuss BFC policy and NOT Busse, and people ultimately keep reverting to bashing Busse, I don't see this thread lasting much longer....

 

[tundratrader]

Really there's no good way to handle this. Liu Kang should have set up a website a long time ago, instead of relying on reposting threads over and over and over again. Confining him to the dealer forum isn't going to help if he does the same antics there, driving off other paying dealers... not to mention the existing rules already state that dealers are exempt from most of the rules that limit individuals. I hate to put posting limits in effect for a dealer as well.

Jerry called me up yesterday and asked if we should open a Busse dealer forum. I'm loathe to open a subforum for a single individual to use. There are no great solutions for this.

Busse should make him an official dealer then.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Busse should make him an official dealer then.

i've been out of the busse picture for a while, but i just don't see that happening.

the busse "dealers" offer a very limited selection of knives, and the relationships between those dealers and jerry busse goes back a long way.

nearly all busse knives are purchased directly from busse, and not from one of the dealers.

the knives available from idahoskunk at the busse company store are typically not available elsewhere, at least initially.

 

[tundratrader]

My point was if the are going to acknowledge that he is a dealer and get him a special section they might as well make it official.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

No. He's a Bladeforums Dealer member because of the volume he sells and his interest only in making a profit off his involvement here. He also sells other manufacturers' knives, like any other dealer. The 2 "Busse dealers" are exclusively distributing Busse products under limited circumstances that make them function as if they were part-time employees of the company.

 

[TUF]

I have purchased Busse knives direct and from the Company Store in Idaho. I learned of their availability through the Busse forum here on BladeForums.

I don't care for LK so I quit reading the Busse Forum here well over a year ago. Guess what? I haven't purchased a Busse knife for well over a year either.

I haven't quit buying knives. I have purchased more than a dozen high end knives this year and whatever I bought the last half of last year after I quit reading the Busse Forum. Not all of the knives would have been Busse knives but a heck of a lot of them would have.

I quit buying Busse knives because of LK and I know for a fact I am not the only one. LK cultivated the hatred he experiences for himself. I couldn't care less about him marking them up, that is how business works. I just simply don't want any knife bad enough to do business with him at any price.

 

[Los Angeles]

Forget it. Not worth it.

 

[Trijicog]

And it is also a fact that Busse's business model worked before LK arrived on the scene and will continue to work after LK exhausts his good will here and moves on to other profit centers. As an aside, have you seen that Busse has raised it's prices due to the inflated pricing in the secondary market? I ask because it kinda seems like your entire argument is based on this supposition.



So you think that Busse benefits from keeping LK selling but is not hurt by the loss of customers because of LK's antics? Color me .

When LK drops $5 or $10K on Infi at a knife show,no it isn't hurting Busse at all...or however much he spends..

When you or I go to a knife show and wander up to the Busse table with some c-notes to drop on ONE knife and see nothing left over but scraps,that doesn't hurt Busse either since Busse has a wad of cash from the "dealers" who got there early,or some sort of pre-show type deal.

Look,Busse has run his business this way for quite a while and it has worked out,just like you alluded to earlier.

My observations are from what I have seen,the way they are sold and the prices they command..prices and availability that are artificially inflated due to a couple of factors that I previously mentioned.

Personally I don't think LK sells that many knives judging by knives that appear time after time,month after month,year after year.I believe the Busse forum is just a venue for LK to display his knives and thrive off the jealousy..If he REALLY wanted to sell some knives,he would lower the prices so they would sell..have you ever seen an LK add that said "prices lowered" ?

But,he can do what he wants,it's America and I am a fan of Capitalism.

 

[trestle]

Conspiracy theorist & now you can't read either.
I introduced myself earlier in the thread! WTF are you, a shill of the OP in the GB&U? Have you owned a diploma is more like it for you. I have owned a Busse-Kin SwampRat, what about you? And at least it's only been a couple of months of me being here without
paying!
Looks like your on your third year free! Give BF some money & maybe they can do as you say next time. Go away crm3137

Your introduction did little to differentiate so it's easy to lump you with LK w/o a conspiracy. FYI, I have been a paying member in years past but not this year. I own numerous Busse-kins and have earned three diplomas. And I'm still here and you're gone. Buh-bye.

DaBird, thanks for clarifying that there are two in the game but at least your transactions worked out.

 

[TechExec]

That old junk Again! it didn't even happen to you & saying that he is responsbile for it means that it was covered! How would ol boy feel if something happened & Dan insured & the USPS said it would take 3 months for the claim to be processed? The guy would still be on her complaining, because he ALMOST cut his finger!! If your worried about safety first, try buying a knife with a sheath to begin with next time!

Conspiracy theorist & now you can't read either.
I introduced myself earlier in the thread! WTF are you, a shill of the OP in the GB&U? Have you owned a diploma is more like it for you. I have owned a Busse-Kin SwampRat, what about you? And at least it's only been a couple of months of me being here without
paying!
Looks like your on your third year free! Give BF some money & maybe they can do as you say next time. Go away crm3137

321sold.biz has been banned for those of who missed it...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/877774-BAD-Do-Not-Sell-To-321sold.biz

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/877601-Loveless-Dropped-Hunter-in-Spalted-Maple?p=9946750

Any real surprise that LK's most vocal, if illiterate, defender on this thread was a crook? Birds of a feather.

 

[Spark]

I don't follow every thread on LK, but what is the deal with this "paid money for insurance and got 'self insured' instead" thing? Did the guy get ripped off or did LK make good on the knife / purchase / refund?

 

[TechExec]

I don't follow every thread on LK, but what is the deal with this "paid money for insurance and got 'self insured' instead" thing? Did the guy get ripped off or did LK make good on the knife / purchase / refund?

That relates to this thread Spark...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/722210-My-experince-with-Liu-Kang

Net of it is he has been consistently charging folks for insurance then not insuring the packages. When called on it he said he was "self insuring." The knife was not lost. A refund was requested for the non-purchased insurance. After that all hell broke loose.

 

[snowreaper1]

I don't follow every thread on LK, but what is the deal with this "paid money for insurance and got 'self insured' instead" thing? Did the guy get ripped off or did LK make good on the knife / purchase / refund?

The person in question did recieve the knife, albiet it was packaged horribly with the tip exposed, but later found out the extra $20 or so bucks he payed for insured shipping was never used to
insure the package. When LK was questioned about it he said the point was mute because the knife arrived saftely and even if the knife was lost he would have "self insured" the package.

 

[emopunker2004]

I don't follow every thread on LK, but what is the deal with this "paid money for insurance and got 'self insured' instead" thing? Did the guy get ripped off or did LK make good on the knife / purchase / refund?

Spark,
I believe said DerrickDesmond (sp?) paid for a knife from LK including shipping AND INSURANCE. Knife arrived fine although the knife was packaged pourly and the tip was protruding from the box. LK DID NOT pay for USPS insurance, only shipping. DD paid $20 for shipping and insurance. LK said he did not pay for USPS insurance because he personally guaranteed the knife. He claimed that if the knife had not arrived he would have taken the hit and refunded the money etc. LK offered to refund the total price to DD if DD would send the knife back, but would not refund the difference, because he did not pay for the insurance requested, which was $11. That was a year ago i think. But LK still says that he did nothing wrong.

 

[LMT66]

I don't follow every thread on LK, but what is the deal with this "paid money for insurance and got 'self insured' instead" thing? Did the guy get ripped off or did LK make good on the knife / purchase / refund?

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...xperience-with-Liu-Kang?p=7949041#post7949041
LK ripped off $11 by taking the money the buyer sent him specifically for insured shipping, pocketing it then "self insuring" the $700 blade which was poking thru the box when it arrived.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...xperience-with-Liu-Kang?p=9879204#post9879204
^He beats around the bush when asked why he didn't refund the $11. He self insured the package and pocketed the money.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...xperience-with-Liu-Kang?p=9879485#post9879485
^He then claimed it was just a mistake about not buying insurance. He forgot he was shipping a $700 blade apparently even after the USPS Counter Clerk asked as they are required to do. The type of postage stamp on the box in the first link means it was printed by a USPS counter person while he was present.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...xperience-with-Liu-Kang?p=9879643#post9879643
^LK claimed that he (LK) was not happy when the buyer asked for his $11 back and decided he just flat out wanted his blade back instead of refunding the $11.
He noted the "No deal is complete until both parties are happy" thing we often refer to.
LK was not happy that a buyer called him out on his insurance scam he has no doubt been pulling for a long time. It's possible many many others might also want refunds hence his obvious refusal to refund anything.


Here's some more reading that you might want to see. Quick read as links are in one post.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...xperience-with-Liu-Kang?p=9880115#post9880115

 

[HandofCod]

Just as a side note. I was looking for pictures of particular model from Busse and I kid you not, I clicked on "This Thread has been Moved Here" eight times before I found a price tag to go with the picture. Now THAT'S what I call spamming.

Easy solution though: if the thread isn't active and all price tags are removed because the items have been consolidated etc then he should remove all content in those threads. Fixed.

 

[Infi-del]

I don't follow every thread on LK, but what is the deal with this "paid money for insurance and got 'self insured' instead" thing? Did the guy get ripped off or did LK make good on the knife / purchase / refund?

He keeps the money you pay for insurance. His deal is that if something happens he'll refund your money. Which, if I'm not mistaken, is kinda what you're supposed to do anyway if the knife never shows up. So basically... he just pockets your insurance money.

I insure packages because if they're lost... I am gonna give the buyer his money back for sure... but I want to get my money back from the Post Office for losing my knife. I guess LK figures if he loses 1 out of every 100 knives in the mail but charges $10.00 at least a head for self insurance... he just made $1,000 minus the cost of that one lost knife. If I sold 100 knives a week that'd probably be a good gamble.

 

[Jerry Busse]

I don't follow every thread on LK, but what is the deal with this "paid money for insurance and got 'self insured' instead" thing? Did the guy get ripped off or did LK make good on the knife / purchase / refund?

I'm a bit lost here as well. . . .

LK is not a sanctioned Busse dealer. He is a customer. Period. He pays the same for his knives as everyone else does. If he buys at the Blade Show, or any other show, he gets the same deal or show special discount as everyone else gets at that show.

However, if he is harming our reputation by association, and this harm is based on factual information, not an ocean of speculation and piling on, we will put an end to it.

My several years of grad school taught me two things. . . First and foremost, “Drink a lot”. . . Second, make sure your facts are solid and not based on hearsay or unsubstantiated opinions.

So, if you have been personally wronged by LK on a Busse Knife Group deal, or you know of someone who claims this, please contact them to send me an email at jerry@bussecombat.com

I do not want hearsay, speculation, links to threads that are endless, personal feelings, or any unfounded accusations. . . . just facts.

I do not know enough about the secondary market resale rules and regulations on BF to comment on that aspect. That info should be sent to Spark.

I only want to hear from those who have been personally involved in a Busse Knife Group deal gone wrong and have actual proof of wrong doing.

With all of the accusations flying around, I have yet to be contacted by anyone.

Present us with facts that prove intentional wrong doing. . . and we will drop the hammer on LK.

Thanks, :thumbup:

Jerry .

 

[trestle]

Thank you for seeking the truth, Mr. Busse. Off to find a cocktail.......