Looking to mirror polish blades Loveless style... Any advice?

Most buffers are too fast. 3450 is crazy fast, 1725 is really fast. I like to use a speed control or V-belt and run them at 800-1200RPM.

Wheel size also makes a huge difference. There is a good reason professional shops and factories use 12" wheels - they buff better at a slower speed. You can run them at half the speed of a 6" wheel and get the same result.

A photo of your blade would really help.

I also edited your post to remove language. We are a family friendly site and try not to use some words.
 
Linus Knives said:
The buffer speed could be a problem. How fast is yours? I know when I bought mine, I specifically bought the slower stronger one from grizzly- I think it's 1725 RPM or something like that.
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Mine is about 3600 so quite possibly... Is there any use for a faster one in terms of knife making in general? Handles perhaps?
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Most buffers are too fast. 3450 is crazy fast, 1725 is really fast. I like to use a speed control or V-belt and run them at 800-1200RPM.

Wheel size also makes a huge difference. There is a good reason professional shops and factories use 12" wheels - they buff better at a slower speed. You can run them at half the speed of a 6" wheel and get the same result.

A photo of your blade would really help.

I also edited your post to remove language. We are a family friendly site and try not to use some words.
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Respectfully, given some of the language I've seen around the forum and the fact that it doesn't auto-replace or auto-censor like some other forums, I wasn't under the impression that it was an issue.
 
DeadPineKnives said:
Mine is about 3600 so quite possibly... Is there any use for a faster one in terms of knife making in general? Handles perhaps?
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Possibly. I only have one buffer so I use it for all applications and don't have any problems. I guess it would depend on the handle material. The extremely fast ones might not be as strong... Mine is 1HP while I know some of the faster ones are less. (Not that I think it possibly bogging down was your problem)
 
Linus Knives said:
Possibly. I only have one buffer so I use it for all applications and don't have any problems. I guess it would depend on the handle material. The extremely fast ones might not be as strong... Mine is 1HP while I know some of the faster ones are less. (Not that I think it possibly bogging down was your problem)
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I don't know if I could use any kind of speed control device on this new buffer since the motor doesn't appear to be three phase... this is really turning into a money pit.
 
DeadPineKnives said:
Respectfully, given some of the language I've seen around the forum and the fact that it doesn't auto-replace or auto-censor like some other forums, I wasn't under the impression that it was an issue.
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shouldn't be an issue. Major political and media figures use salty language all the time in public nowadays, which families regularly see on the news, so I'm not really down with that kind of language policing, (never have been)... but I digress.
 
DeadPineKnives said:
Mine is about 3600 so quite possibly... Is there any use for a faster one in terms of knife making in general? Handles perhaps?
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I've been using a 3600 rpm baldor since 1977, never felt any need to change it. This is with 6" stitched cotton wheels, I will not run anything larger than 6" on this buffer. (I tried 8" and they have a few very particular uses, but basically they sit idle.)
 
DeadPineKnives said:
I don't know if I could use any kind of speed control device on this new buffer since the motor doesn't appear to be three phase... this is really turning into a money pit.
Click to expand...
If you can find smaller diameter wheels with the same arbor size that has the same effect. Just make sure they’re rated for the correct RPMs.

Mirror finishes are generally more trouble than they’re worth. Even if you get one perfect it’s a pretty delicate finish if the knife ever sees any real use. That being said, the lessons learned in achieving a mirror finish will help you with blade finishing in general moving forward.
 
Smaller buffing wheels will slow the effective surface speed.
Something that has not been mentioned are hard felt buffs. Used properly, they can keep your grind lines crisp and they cut more effectively than looser surfaces.
Mirror polished surfaces are not necessarily perfect. The polishing lines are blended or slurred together. The smaller the article, the less of this slurring is desirable.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Smaller buffing wheels will slow the effective surface speed.
Something that has not been mentioned are hard felt buffs. Used properly, they can keep your grind lines crisp and they cut more effectively than looser surfaces.
Mirror polished surfaces are not necessarily perfect. The polishing lines are blended or slurred together. The smaller the article, the less of this slurring is desirable.
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I'm using 6" wheels on a buffer meant to use 8" wheels, and the result is better than the 6" buffer I was using.
 
I know how frustrating it can be not to get the finish you desire. I don't make many mirror finish blades, I prefer a satin finish, but when I do a mirror finish this is what I do.
I use Blaze 36 grit belts to taper tangs. When the blaze belt starts to loose it's cut on tapering tangs I then use it to grind the bevels. The semi-worn 36 grit cuts fast but does not leave scratches as deep as a new Blaze belt would leave. Next I go to a 220 belt. This is a big jump, but I like it because I can easily see when I get all the 36 grit scratches out of the blade. Next I go to a 22 Norax. I use a 10" serrated contact wheel and will grind with the blade in a horizontal position, but also will turn the blade to a 45 degree position. This helps me see if I have removed the previous scratches. From the 22 Norax I go to a 16 Norax and finish with a 5 Norax belt. It is important to get all the scratches out before moving on to a finer belt. After the 5 Norax I buff with a green buffing compound, and finish with a finer green buffing compound. It really is not that hard and doesn't take all that long.
 
AdamSmith said:
I've been using a 3600 rpm baldor since 1977, never felt any need to change it. This is with 6" stitched cotton wheels, I will not run anything larger than 6" on this buffer. (I tried 8" and they have a few very particular uses, but basically they sit idle.)
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I'd like to save for a Baldor one day! I'm asking around a bit in regards to buffer speed; some say 3600 is too fast, some day 1825 is too slow... What's a boy to do?

ScarFoot said:
If you can find smaller diameter wheels with the same arbor size that has the same effect. Just make sure they’re rated for the correct RPMs.

Mirror finishes are generally more trouble than they’re worth. Even if you get one perfect it’s a pretty delicate finish if the knife ever sees any real use. That being said, the lessons learned in achieving a mirror finish will help you with blade finishing in general moving forward.
Click to expand...

Many people bring up the point of a mirror finish not being worth it because of how difficult it is to achieve vs. how easy it is to mess up, but I don't really think about it that way. To me it's about doing the best work I possibly can, resulting in a truly nice knife. Personally I'd rather see one of my blades scratched to hell; shows someone actually bothered to use it! :p

Tom Lewis said:
I know how frustrating it can be not to get the finish you desire. I don't make many mirror finish blades, I prefer a satin finish, but when I do a mirror finish this is what I do.
I use Blaze 36 grit belts to taper tangs. When the blaze belt starts to loose it's cut on tapering tangs I then use it to grind the bevels. The semi-worn 36 grit cuts fast but does not leave scratches as deep as a new Blaze belt would leave. Next I go to a 220 belt. This is a big jump, but I like it because I can easily see when I get all the 36 grit scratches out of the blade. Next I go to a 22 Norax. I use a 10" serrated contact wheel and will grind with the blade in a horizontal position, but also will turn the blade to a 45 degree position. This helps me see if I have removed the previous scratches. From the 22 Norax I go to a 16 Norax and finish with a 5 Norax belt. It is important to get all the scratches out before moving on to a finer belt. After the 5 Norax I buff with a green buffing compound, and finish with a finer green buffing compound. It really is not that hard and doesn't take all that long.
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That's interesting! That really is a gigantic jump in grits, but your rationale is solid. I'm not sure how to determine which green compound is finer or coarser than another...
 
I do quite a bit of mirror polishing but only before etching the blade. Like I said earlier, it’s worth learning to get a mirror finish just because of all the lessons you learn along the way. It will make you better at getting just about any other finish you can think of. It’s just a frustrating finish to achieve and honestly it’s very rarely requested in my experience. Most of the makers I know personally can do it but prefer not to. I don’t think I’ve ever heard any two of them that do it alike either. I do know one maker that does it and does it well on most of his knives so the rest of us locals gladly let him have that piece of the market.
 
DeadPineKnives said:
I'd like to save for a Baldor one day! I'm asking around a bit in regards to buffer speed; some say 3600 is too fast, some day 1825 is too slow... What's a boy to do?
Click to expand...

Stacy Apelt was absolutely right that 3450 is way too fast for a 12" wheel. I'm right that 3450 is fine for a six inch wheel. It is all about surface feet per minute. A 12 at 1745 and a 6 at 3450 are both doing 5400 surface feet per minute.

I wouldn't worry about your fast buffer at this point. I'd worry about your grinding prep. If you can get to 100% clean 20 micron (1000-1200 grit) ground finish, getting to mirror is easy. If you are trying to polish out a 220x (or worse) scratch, you are in for a very long day, (at least the way I do it, anyway). 400x is feasible, but much much harder than 800x. It is on a logarithmic scale until you get the scratch depth into a reasonable ball park for the buff abrasive size.

I polished out a cpm 10V knife at hrc 64 yesterday. It took five minutes for both compounds (using my own diamond compounds). The grinding took at least a couple of hours for a small knife, the cpm-10V is incredibly wear resistant.

On AEB-L Maverick Black, then Green, then Purple will get you to mirror very quickly if the prep is good.
 
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AdamSmith said:
Stacy Apelt was absolutely right that 3450 is way too fast for a 12" wheel. I'm right that 3450 is fine for a six inch wheel. It is all about surface feet per minute. A 12 at 1745 and a 6 at 3450 are both doing 5400 surface feet per minute.

I wouldn't worry about your fast buffer at this point. I'd worry about your grinding prep. If you can get to 100% clean 20 micron (1000-1200 grit) ground finish, getting to mirror is easy. If you are trying to polish out a 220x (or worse) scratch, you are in for a very long day, (at least the way I do it, anyway). 400x is feasible, but much much harder than 800x. It is on a logarithmic scale until you get the scratch depth into a reasonable ball park for the buff abrasive size.

I polished out a cpm 10V knife at hrc 64 yesterday. It took five minutes for both compounds (using my own diamond compounds). The grinding took at least a couple of hours for a small knife, the cpm-10V is incredibly wear resistant.

On AEB-L Maverick Black, then Green, then Purple will get you to mirror very quickly if the prep is good.
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You know, as someone working in machining, I probably should have thought about surface feet per minute...

I've been hand sanding to 2000 grit using Rhynowet, though it's quite likely that I'm not doing it well enough. Theoretically from 2000 I should be getting a mirror in seconds, rather than minutes.

I've worked with 10v before and didn't enjoy it all that much, so I can imagine how difficult it was! I admire that anyone can manage such things.

I have some Black Magic compound on the way, and already have some green and purple!

I'm still not sure what to make of the orange peel effect, but I theorize that it could be from a previous buffing attempt and was not sanded out all the way, so I plan to entirely re-finish the blade before my next polishing attempt.
 
Another important aspect of mirror polishing is good lighting. If it’s too dark in your shop to see the scratches then it’s hard to know you’ve removed them. Inspect the blade very closely before jumping up a grit, maybe take it out in the sunlight or into your kitchen etc.
 
For me, orange peel is almost always the result of too much polishing pressure. But keep in mind, I'm using stitched cotton buffs, not the new airway buffs (which I gather are much more aggressive with the same compound). You can get some residual texture which looks a bit like orange peel from grinding marks that are basically polished out but where the difference in heights has been polished in (once again good prep is the thing).

The Black Magic will itself put in some significant scratches that will need to be removed. I've never used green myself, (the compounds I used before the diamond were legacy stock from a firm that doesn't exist anymore), but I gather green is the normal way of getting Black Magic ready for final. Others with more experience with current compounds may weigh in.
 
Contender Machine said:
Another important aspect of mirror polishing is good lighting. If it’s too dark in your shop to see the scratches then it’s hard to know you’ve removed them. Inspect the blade very closely before jumping up a grit, maybe take it out in the sunlight or into your kitchen etc.
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I have a small lamp I could use! I've been using my flashlight now and again to see rogue scratches but a lamp would likely be better.

AdamSmith said:
For me, orange peel is almost always the result of too much polishing pressure. But keep in mind, I'm using stitched cotton buffs, not the new airway buffs (which I gather are much more aggressive with the same compound). You can get some residual texture which looks a bit like orange peel from grinding marks that are basically polished out but where the difference in heights has been polished in (once again good prep is the thing).

The Black Magic will itself put in some significant scratches that will need to be removed. I've never used green myself, (the compounds I used before the diamond were legacy stock from a firm that doesn't exist anymore), but I gather green is the normal way of getting Black Magic ready for final. Others with more experience with current compounds may weigh in.
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That's why I've been trying to use light pressure, and why I think the dimples from my most recent attempt are from the previous attempt, and somehow didn't get sanded out all the way. I'm using 6" felt wheels currently, on the suggestion of a friend. A little unconventional from what I understand, but I need every edge I can get with the way things have been going!
 
DeadPineKnives said:
I have a small lamp I could use! I've been using my flashlight now and again to see rogue scratches but a lamp would likely be better.



That's why I've been trying to use light pressure, and why I think the dimples from my most recent attempt are from the previous attempt, and somehow didn't get sanded out all the way. I'm using 6" felt wheels currently, on the suggestion of a friend. A little unconventional from what I understand, but I need every edge I can get with the way things have been going!
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I had problems with felt when I tried it. I know others have used it successfully, but I haven't. (I have particular uses for the felt, but not for the face of the blade). Part of the reason I've held to six inch wheels, is I can ride inside the (hollow) bevels and not soften the grind lines (so long as I'm careful). The felt may be part of your problem with the orange peel, your are certainly applying way more pressure from felt than you would be from cloth.

Hopefully someone who likes felt will chime in around how they use it.

The last buff wheels I bought were these : https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08YJRTJ7M?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

The shaft on my buffer is 7/8, I just drilled them out with a step drill.
 
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