M-INFI question.

The basic 9 is one heck of a blade, so is the basic 7. I believe that Jerry got it 'right' when he put these out years previous. They are very well balanced, light in the hand and sharpen easily. If you have never had occasion to heft a basic 9, you are missing what is probably one of the best configurations of a survival knife that has ever crossed my path. All truth be told, I can't detect any huge differences between the performance of my NMBM and my basic 9, both are superb pieces. I suspect both knives are crafted from nearly the identical material. Also, my basic 9 seems to resist rust as well as any of the BM variants.

If I had to leave quickly into the fray for whatever reason, I'd grab my vintage reprofiled Ontario 18 inch machete and the basic 9 sans another thought. They are THAT good.
 
AngryDaddyBird said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong but weren't the basics from this past Blade 2012 Infi not M-Infi? I was told that my all sage Basic 9 is Infi not M-infi. But it also has a 10" blade and oal 15 1/8".
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Dang, not only did I miss out on those sage Basics that were up for sale a few weeks ago but now it turns out they were even better than the original Basic (with choil and INFI). I don't suppose I'll ever get another chance at one of those suckers.

BTW, Peter why do you need your knife as a striker for a fire steel? Don't most good fire steels come with an attached dedicated striker?
 
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taiChiFighter said:
Dang, not only did I miss out on those sage Basics that were up for sale a few weeks ago but now it turns out they were even better than the original Basic (with choil and INFI). I don't suppose I'll ever get another chance at one of those suckers. ...
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I personally do not see the need for a choil on a knife the size of a Basic 7, but if that is what you want then buy an old style Basic 7 and with a Dremel tool or even a file make the choil as large as you want.

Take it from those who know more than me, you will not notice a difference between INFI and M-INFI. Many years ago Jerry did a public test with a Basic 9 cutting 1" hemp rope - here is a quote from an early thread:
"How many cuts did we get?
2,771!
And we only stopped there because we ran out of rope!" :D

Here is a link to the complete thread: Basic 9 test
In addition to the link above, there are some more links in this thread in post #2 from Eric: more tests

You will not be sorry if you buy a Basic 7 or 9.

Gene
 
taiChiFighter said:
Dang, not only did I miss out on those sage Basics that were up for sale a few weeks ago but now it turns out they were even better than the original Basic (with choil and INFI). I don't suppose I'll ever get another chance at one of those suckers.

BTW, Peter why do you need your knife as a striker for a fire steel? Don't most good fire steels come with an attached dedicated striker?
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I like to have my two most important tools able to work with each other.:)
 
gk4ever2 said:
I personally do not see the need for a choil on a knife the size of a Basic 7

Gene
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Sure, if you use your knife as a machete and only chop with it a choil is a waste of time. "Personally" I LOVE the choil on my original Spyderco Manix 1 and that's only a 4" blade.
 
taiChiFighter said:
Sure, if you use your knife as a machete and only chop with it a choil is a waste of time. "Personally" I LOVE the choil on my original Spyderco Manix 1 and that's only a 4" blade.
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I see it as the opposite. If your primary goal is to chop with the knife than the area right after the handle is less important, so you can have a choil there if someone thinks its a good idea and not diminish it's use for those who see no purpose in it. With a 4" knife I want every single last mm of edge I can get because ever mm lost is one that I notice in use. That choil moves the edge farther from my hand, something I notice when leveraging it in hard plastics or cardboard. Certainly I can move my hand forward into the choil, but now I'm leveraging off of a flat bar of metal instead of an ergonomically fitted handled.

I saw this with experience now that I'm using a 4" knife (a modified mora 112" at work daily to cut away bits of hard plastic and poly carb from plastic. I need the area closest to the handle to get the best leverage on the edge. If I used a choil, that leveraging would wear my index finger out halfway through the day.
 
What one individual or another prefers is neither here nor there to me. I was commenting that I felt that I had missed out the recent sale of a more current version of the basic 7 which has choil because, for my purposes, that's what I want.
 
PeterPHWS said:
I like to have my two most important tools able to work with each other.:)
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Peter, sorry to be a pest by picking your brains but you are coming at your knife from the same general direction as I am so...
You mentioned the asymmetrical grind on the Basic being easier to sharpen in the field. This is very important to me but I noticed that in Mike Turber's review comparing the Trailmaster to the Basic 9 he commented that he had trouble sharpening the knife. Do you re-profile the the convex side to make it easier to sharpen (a chisel grind maybe)?
 
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Posted by JimmyJones:
basics-7-1.jpg


And from my past collection:
DSC02447.jpg


Within the (pre-BOSS/NM era) basic lines, smooth (older) and crinkle (newer), none of the choils were exceptionally usable. The smooth coat series had elf choils that were larger than the crinkle series. The Basic 9 was the only one that got it's elf choil extended to be a full finger choil, but many people found it to be too small to use comfortable compared to the more recent XL choils.

taiChiFighter said:
Peter, sorry to be a pest by picking your brains but you are coming at your knife from the same general direction as I am so...
You mentioned the asymmetrical grind on the Basic being easier to sharpen in the field. This is very important to me but I noticed that in Mike Turber's review comparing the Trailmaster to the Basic 9 he commented that he had trouble sharpening the knife. Do you re-profile the the convex side to make it easier to sharpen (a chisel grind maybe)?
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What you see here is a collection of bevel types. The type busse has is labeled 'asymmetrical convex', however, the actual format is closer in proportion to what he shows as 'chisel with back bevel'.
knifeedgetypes.jpg


The idea is to get a convex edge that has the accuteness of overall geometry to that of a chisel (20 degrees on one side) but maintain most of the strength of a V edge, (40 degree's total if you include both bevels, but one of them is very short). When sharpening you are supposed to only have to steel or ceramic rod the short beveled side, and then strop the convex side to remove the burr. This allowed for a much shorter sharpening time with less effort, and could easily be accomplished in the feild as long as you had a loaded strop strap and either a steel like this:
zP1150612.jpg

Of an equivalent ceramic rod.


Heres a short overview of cliff's basic 7 review:
http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/busse_basic.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/454729-INFI-vs-M-INFI?highlight=cliff basic
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ic-7-commits-suicide!?highlight=cliff%20basic
 
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The basic 4, 6, and 10 are all the newer editions that are done in INFI, the 6 and 10 having larger choils. But none of those are going to be exactly like the basic 7 for balance.

If you are able to make it to shows you will likely have another chance at the new basic series as newer runs tend to make a lot of custom (even just in coating color) appearances at shows. You may also be able to call the shop or email garth and ask if he has any available for purchase.


The basic 6 also differs from the Euro 6. If your looking for INFI and the un-thumb molded newer style swamp rat handles, the basic 6 is it:
From dericdesmond:
IMG_9694.jpg


If your looking for M-INFI, the older Euro 6 is it. The only difference being it's M-INFI, Clip point instead of drop point, and has the older style molded handles.
This is a stock thumbnail of the original euro line, with the euro basic 6 at the top:
images
 
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Thanx for all the awesome info dude!!!!! Love the look to the Basic 6 in satin. Do you by any chance know what kind of grind was on the 6??
 
taiChiFighter said:
Thanx for all the awesome info dude!!!!! Love the look to the Basic 6 in satin. Do you by any chance know what kind of grind was on the 6??
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...LE-.-.-.-.-.-.-Coming-Soon!!!!.-.-.-.-.-YOWZA

It has a full flat main grind, and when jerry says 'zero edge' he means a 'blended convex edge', meaning there's no distinct corner on the cutting edges bevel. As far as I know they were all V edges unless custom ordered with something different.
 
taiChiFighter said:
Peter, sorry to be a pest by picking your brains but you are coming at your knife from the same general direction as I am so...
You mentioned the asymmetrical grind on the Basic being easier to sharpen in the field. This is very important to me but I noticed that in Mike Turber's review comparing the Trailmaster to the Basic 9 he commented that he had trouble sharpening the knife. Do you re-profile the the convex side to make it easier to sharpen (a chisel grind maybe)?
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LVC covers this in his replies ... one thing not mentioned though is that if you are right handed using an ASM edge in the field ... you often start by chopping ... because of the edge design this limits the thinness at the pinnacle but if you are chopping at a diagonal using your right hand the force of the impact is going to cause any rolling, such as their may be , over to the side that has the flat 10 degree bevel ...

The next task you often do , having done the chopping is a bit of pointing for tarp pegs ... now in my experience when doing cutting of wood with an ASM edge to create a point ... any rolling towards the flat side seems to get moved back into alignment when doing the pointing cutting ... again at a diagonal to the wood ... so whilst the ASM edge is probably less prone to rolling when razor sharp than any other edge design in Infi ... when you actually work with the edge the actions you carry out seem to self correct the tendancy of Infi to "roll" before it chips ... so with an ASM edge their is the benefit in the field of it almost "self sharpening" through use ...

For this reason the ASM edge lasts a long time in the field ... and as a general tip ... if you have done some prolonged chopping ... check the edge ... then do a bit of whittling and check the edge ... after a tent peg or two the edge often does'nt need the top up you thought it would need with a crock stick :thumbup:
 
This is great up to a point but there may be a problem for me when the knife actually needs to be sharpened. I have no sharpening skills to speak of and, while I just got an Apex Edge Pro (that I'm going to learn how to use this summer), this system is clearly not designed to be used on a convex edge. Do most people with Busse's who aren't expert sharpeners reprofile and, if so, will this cause a significant compromise in performance?
 
I got a small DMT diamond stone sharpening kit for the field. This works essentially along the same lines as the Edge Pro. Would I be better off with a Spyderco system?
 
taiChiFighter said:
This is great up to a point but there may be a problem for me when the knife actually needs to be sharpened. I have no sharpening skills to speak of and, while I just got an Apex Edge Pro (that I'm going to learn how to use this summer), this system is clearly not designed to be used on a convex edge. Do most people with Busse's who aren't expert sharpeners reprofile and, if so, will this cause a significant compromise in performance?
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Don't mess with the ASM edge ... it is great as is ...

Set up your Apex Edge Pro to do the left side flat bevel at 10-11 degrees ... use the marker pen on the edge with the use of a magnifying loop to see the progress you have made.

When you reach the pinnacle and start to improve on the sharpness you will eventually create a wire edge that you can feel on the convex side ... if you check the feel of this before you reach the pinnacle you will tell the difference ...

Then you need to remove the wire edge ... you do this with stropping ... get a double sided paddle and compound from knives ship free and use the green chrome compound to strop the right side. Use some para cord to anchor the paddle to your thigh and get used to stropping as per their instructions ...

Sharpening is something we all feared and were useless at ... at one point ... but once you jump in and do it a bit there is a learning curve where it all makes sense :thumbup:
 
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