Makers delivery times

Jose Reyes said:
Keith, sorry for the continued thread drift...

Steven, I agree that a call can get things sorted out a lot quicker than over the net, but in this case, it's a question that's relevant to the general public.
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Also agreed, Jose.....but the answer to the question was not provided HERE....it was on another Forum....nothing is/was stopping Roger from putting the time in to get the answer he wanted....and bringing it back here, which is what he ultimately did.

It's entirely the difference between boxing in public, or doing it at a private gym. If you do it in private and get your ass handed to you, you can still save face....in public, the bystanders, who have NOTHING personally invested, generally speaking, can drag your name though the mud for eternity.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
It's entirely the difference between boxing in public, or doing it at a private gym. If you do it in private and get your ass handed to you, you can still save face....in public, the bystanders, who have NOTHING personally invested, generally speaking, can drag your name though the mud for eternity.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Amen, STeven. :thumbup: We've all been guilty of hitting submit reply before our rationale cooled.

The forum thread is easy to misread. PM's on a thorny issue are next easiest choice, but a person-to-person call is incredibly revealing and worthy.

Thanks for your examples that you point us towards. I learn from you. :)

Coop
 
Kohai999 said:
It's entirely the difference between boxing in public, or doing it at a private gym. If you do it in private and get your ass handed to you, you can still save face....in public, the bystanders, who have NOTHING personally invested, generally speaking, can drag your name though the mud for eternity.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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SharpByCoop said:
The forum thread is easy to misread. PM's on a thorny issue are next easiest choice, but a person-to-person call is incredibly revealing and worthy.

Thanks for your examples that you point us towards. I learn from you. :)

Coop
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Holy schmoly - STeven and Coop come together on a kumbaya solution - stop the presses! :p

Not disputing any of the above, gents - but query why there was any need for "boxing" and how this could possibly be a "thorny issue". I put to the maker the same question I put to Neil / RL. He did not take offense. He provided a clear and straightforward answer to what was a very simple question.

Putting the question to RL and Neil made sense - I'm sure will allow - considering that the former started the thread and introduced the "San Mei" description - and the latter sold the knife in question. Both were participants in the thread.

There really wasn't anything much more to this than the type of questions that are routinely asked in forum posts day in and day out. I usually remember to include the steel type when I post a knife review, but if I don't, I pretty much expect to be asked.

What really set the thread on a bit of an edge was discussion of price - something that generally does not form part of the discussion of a posted knife. The reason, I suspect, is that most people don't choose to post the price of the knife, as RL did.

Roger
 
SharpByCoop said:
Amen, STeven. :thumbup: We've all been guilty of hitting submit reply before our rationale cooled.

The forum thread is easy to misread. PM's on a thorny issue are next easiest choice, but a person-to-person call is incredibly revealing and worthy.

Thanks for your examples that you point us towards. I learn from you. :)

Coop
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Coop references a different thread where I made a sarcastic, and to the outsider, belittling comment..about him......which I amended.

We all learn from each other....and that is REALLY the point of the Forums.

It is hard to learn from someone, though, when you are so insulted/frustrated/angry, that your mind is not open....and we have all done it, and will do it again.

The point from day one, and how I have treated the Forums, is that I would say ALL this stuff in person....it is incomprehensible to me to be any way different because this is cyberspace....

and I have a really hard time believing that certain participants in this thread would act that way one-on- one.....because I know them, and have interacted with them personally, even getting into heated arguements....heck, Josh even called me some bad names, and started off with "little s**t talkin' mf'er", of all the nerve:D....but the respect is still there.....and it should be.....because this community, after all these years, is still not that large.

Some people lie, cheat, take advantage.......to get ahead, to make themselves feel better/bigger/more powerful....but we DON'T NEED to be THOSE people....we can disagree, and even be wrong....

but we still need to remember that we might be looking that person that we just insulted....I've done it, more times than I can remember, and it doesn't feel real good to see a man whose knives you impugned publicly at a show, but it was true, and I said it to their face, too, and got a chance to explain what the issues were, and hope it was a valuable experience for them.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
RogerP said:
Holy schmoly - STeven and Coop come together on a kumbaya solution - stop the presses! :p

Not disputing any of the above, gents - but query why there was any need for "boxing" and how this could possibly be a "thorny issue". I put to the maker the same question I put to Neil / RL. He did not take offense. He provided a clear and straightforward answer to what was a very simple question.
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"It is hard to learn from someone, though, when you are so insulted/frustrated/angry, that your mind is not open....and we have all done it, and will do it again."

Probably because Neil felt(right or wrong) that in this thread you were being a bully, or just a rude f**k, and clamped up.

People are people, live and learn....I'm real interested to hear what your interaction with him at the show was like, even if it is in a PM.:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I am much more user than collector, so I can't see a wait beyond about a year. I wish more makers would go the mid-tech route along the lines of Emerson, which mostly solves the wait.

Also, I wish there were more 'pimp my knife' outfits that would make small mods to production knives. My Kershaw zdp mini-cyclone is almost perfect for me, except that it's a little too heavy for my taste, and I do not like assisteds (it has a littlle switch to turn off the assisted mode, but sometimes it comes back on when in the pocket). Anyway, if I could find somebody to a) tear out all the assist-related hardware b) skelatonize the handle somewhat to make it lighter, 3) make it at least 200% smoother in manual opening, I would consider that knife as almost perfect.

'Pimp my knife'-ers could allow a guy like me to get exactly what we want without waiting two years for a custom maker, by which time we might not even need the knife anymore.
 
Though waiting doesn't bother me, when I am given an approximate date when I put in my order, and it gets well past that date, I like to be given some kind of idea when I will be getting my knife.

Here is a situation that I am dealing with right now. Back in June of 2005 I contacted a maker about a possible order. The maker let me know that his delivery time was over a year, but could possibly stretch out to as much as two. I decided that was okay and ordered the knife. At some point after the order was put in the maker had to go back to work to pay the bills. He let me know that this was going to play havic with his delivery times, because he wasn't going to be able to spend as much time in the shop. I let him know that was okay, but that I would like to kept updated. We kept in contact and at a point nearing the two year mark I was told in an email that after Blade 2007 he would do some sketches of his ideas and he would email them to me. I called him in the late fall of last year and asked if he thought he could have a knife for me by sometime in the spring. He said that it was possible, but that would be the earliest that I could expect something. He also let me know that he would be doing up the sketches and sending them to me soon. To this time, I have still to receive the sketches. In June this maker and I are are going to be at the same place so I asked him if he could have my knife ready for that time. If this was not possible I asked if he could give me some kind of idea when he would be making it for me. I also reminded him that the sketches he was going to send me had not arrived yet. He did not reply. I sent him another email about a week later and he has still not replied. I'm not sure where we sit at the moment, so I am going to give him a call this weekend. I have a feeling that I have in some way angered this maker, but I guess I will find out for sure.

Not sure if I am being too impatient. Should I have just sat and waited until I was told that it was my time?
 
Hi Kieth,

Simple case of a maker over promising and under delivering. The maker has painted himself into a corner and after putting you off as long as he can (you called his bluff) he now knows he is going to have to see you in person.

He/she has put themselves in this situation.

You know you are not going to get the knife when you meet. So throw him a little time and just ask to see the drawings.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
I have long thought that taking orders - for any good, popular maker, might not be the right system. Makers are not good at working on a schedule to start with, and when the ETAs stretch beyond a few month, their capacity at estimating the pace of their work goes down the drain.

Makers need some input from collectors to not grow stale, but to take specific, named orders might not be the right way.
 
Hi Keith,
I'm no expert on knives but can offer a genuinely expert opinion on email communication.
Details aside, if you have any suspicion that things are not going well with email, pick up the phone.
 
As Keith's last post I am in an almost identical situation with a maker, although the order time is quite a bit longer.
I think the main annoyance from my point of veiw is the lack of communication from the maker, I have never had the maker contact me regarding the order , it's allways me who contacts him... or tries...invariably they just get ignored......this year's Blade Show could be interesting, we'll see what he has to say face to face over a table full of for sale knives!
 
dcv69 said:
As Keith's last post I am in an almost identical situation with a maker, although the order time is quite a bit longer.
I think the main annoyance from my point of veiw is the lack of communication from the maker, I have never had the maker contact me regarding the order , it's allways me who contacts him... or tries...invariably they just get ignored......this year's Blade Show could be interesting, we'll see what he has to say face to face over a table full of for sale knives!
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Send me an e-mail sometime before Blade, and I'll saunter over to the maker's table with you for some assistance, if you would like.:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Kieth,

Simple case of a maker over promising and under delivering. The maker has painted himself into a corner and after putting you off as long as he can (you called his bluff) he now knows he is going to have to see you in person.
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The over promising and under delivering happened because of a change in circumstances. This maker had been giving full time knifemaking a try and it didn't work out. His estimated delivery was based on being a full time maker. All I really want is to get the sketches, and to be given the feeling that I will actually be getting a knife within a reasonable amount of time. If that can't happen, I would much prefer that the maker just tell me that he isn't able to make my knife, or for whatever reason, he no longer wants to.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
The over promising and under delivering happened because of a change in circumstances. This maker had been giving full time knifemaking a try and it didn't work out. His estimated delivery was based on being a full time maker. All I really want is to get the sketches, and to be given the feeling that I will actually be getting a knife within a reasonable amount of time. If that can't happen, I would much prefer that the maker just tell me that he isn't able to make my knife, or for whatever reason, he no longer wants to.
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Sorry, Keith, but the proper way to handle this is not to make excuses, accept BS, or HOPE that you are going to get what was promised.

The WAY for a collector to handle it, is to spell out what is or is not acceptable, from your POV, with an e-mail, and/or telephone call, and a statement that if "x" time goes by without comms from the maker...thanks, but no thanks.....take it public.

There has to be a carrot AND a stick...not happy about it, but that is the way that it is. Too many collectors take the attitude that "it was just my time that got wasted".....time IS money, and MY time is worth $100.00/hour....who is going to recoup it for me? You can figure out what your own time is worth, but I hope you see the point.

Makers say stuff like "Family comes first" or "I make knives so I don't have to work for anyone", as an excuse to be half a scummer, but I say, if I lose my job, and owe you money for something that you made for me.....I'll get you the money, because my word is the most important thing in the world........more important than anything else.....except maybe the ability to get a boner.:D:D

Maybe that is in the total minority, but it is also the way it is.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Remember Keith, some makers quickly forget thr true meaning and think that ABS means American Bullshitters Society!
 
STeven; you are one funny dood! The more I read your posts, the more I like your pov.
Now back on track.:)
 
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