Makers delivery times

just ot clarify
I did not make the damascus i was posting a e-mail from Mick
Mick makes San Mei damascus (steel core with 3 layers) and other damascus which I listed the make up of on USN. To stick to the original post I have Custom knives on order with several makers and usually Makers are a little behind on thier orders but all the ones that i have delt with let me know when they are behind. Knives are a form of art (in my eyes) and if a artist is rushed the end result is usually not as good.
 
josh@STRIDERKNIVES said:
just ot clarify
I did not make the damascus i was posting a e-mail from Mick
Mick makes San Mei damascus (steel core with 3 layers) and other damascus which I listed the make up of on USN. To stick to the original post I have Custom knives on order with several makers and usually Makers are a little behind on thier orders but all the ones that i have delt with let me know when they are behind. Knives are a form of art (in my eyes) and if a artist is rushed the end result is usually not as good.
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That's odd. When you / Mick replied to the original query on what was in the "San Mei" steel, no mention was made by him / you of a steel core. Just 1095 and Nickel. In fact, when clarification was asked for as to laminated construction of San Mei, Mick replied that San Mai blades contained a steel core.

At a minimum, very confusing. And very surprising.

Roger
 
Neil has had the technical details on this steel for a week or so- since we both got the info from Mick at the same time.

Also, Neil and I have photos of Mick’s shop set up and additional shots on how me makes this steel.

I can only guess that Neil did not post this information because maybe he is not the knifemaker or perhaps doesn’t feel that he has to answer to publically a mob or his competitors.

He certainly does know what he is selling and it was up to him to share this info or not. As of earlier today, he tells me that not a single person has asked him about this Damascus directly- but only by way of these threads on BF in this forum, which he has decided not to do.
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The people in Japan that I work with tell me that San Mai is not welded like the European or American laminates, Instead the three layers are cemented togeather. At this point they clam up because they do not want others to know how they do it. San Mai often has damascus as the outside layers (the Shun kitchen knives). Hope that this helps.
 
I no longer order custom knives from makers anymore, got tired of the long waits and empty promises. I just buy semi custom knives like Strider and Chris Reeve, or wait til some maker I like, sells his design to the manufacturer and I get the same thing for alot less.If you really use the knives you purchase this makes more sense. With all the new custom makers out there nothing seems to hold value anymore anyway
 
SkinnyDale, you don't sound like a custom knife kind of guy. It seems that you have had some bad experiences. That's a shame.
 
Hi Josh,

3 people asking a question about the composition of a blade is not a mob.

SWOT analysis...Strengths Weaknesses Opportunities and Techniques.

In the business world a "Weakness" identified in SWOT analysis is to be exploited. Hence the phrase "Competitive Advantage".

If you don't want competitors to exploit a perceived weakness. In this case lack of adherence to the first commandment of sales: Product Knowledge. Then eliminate the perception.

If you don't know...say so and then find out.

It's nice that you have your biggest dealers back as well that you explained that it is San Mei and not San Mai.

As well with the recent history of Mick and Duane as played out on the forums (I don't have a dog in this fight so it doesn't matter to me). It would probably be best for any one selling Strider knives clarify any questions about the knives as quickly as possible. Not recoil and refuse to answer because you think you are being picked on, semantics or misinterpretation of the question asked.

With regards to this thread.

I buy from a lot of makers as I prefer to input specifications for the knives based on what the buyers are looking for.

I buy online, at shows, from makers, from collectors and even other dealers.

The last knife I put in my collection was bought from another dealer.

Piece, price, maker. :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Les Robertson said:
It would probably be best for any one selling Strider knives clarify any questions about the knives as quickly as possible. Not recoil and refuse to answer because you think you are being picked on, semantics or misinterpretation of the question asked.

The last knife I put in my collection was bought from another dealer.

Piece, price, maker. :D
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For all we know, San Mei could be an inside joke to Mick…San(without in Spanish) Mei(Signature in Japanese)…..he has been known to have an active sense of humor.

I think to get bogged down in the semantics of it all IN this case, is counterproductive…..from where I sit, the choice of terms is solely one of marketing.

Do we really want to get into all that?…because many great makers use marketing terms that are confusing, fanciful, or designed to evoke a feeling…..Ed Fowler has used the term “Wootz” many times to describe a monosteel, Jerry Fisk calls a damascus pattern “Wolfstooth”..there are not wolfsteeth in the steel…right? I had a great and talented maker call white MOP “star shimmer” MOP…..it’s a great piece of white MOP…but that is it.

“San Mei” may not be the fairest or clearest name for the Damascus….but neither is Damascus, if you get my drift, and that IS the maker’s choice, and I see nothing wrong with it……as long as “WHAT” it is gets revealed(layer count, materials…and if it is a composite of core and outside layers) .

Neil had a right to shut down responses……because this could have and should have gotten handled offline, there is no reason not to make a phone call/PM/e-mail….I spoke to BOTH Neil and Coop this week about some contentious issues….making the damned effort to communicate directly with a PERSON should be of paramount concern.

As far as Les’s response goes….piece, price, maker would TOTALLY be expected for a dealer…not so sure about a collector of specific makers, though.;)

Les, I got a knife recently from Jon Ukman, who got it from Dan Delavan(dealer to dealer to me, lol)....Ohta wharncliffe/clip trapper in the Case/Remington style....great work....exceptional price...you should check out Ohta's work.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi STeven,

As far as Les’s response goes….piece, price, maker would TOTALLY be expected for a dealer…not so sure about a collector of specific makers, though.
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Before I became a dealer it was piece, price and then maker. I have bought too many knives that were from "unknown" makers, guys like Walter Brend, Kit Carson, John W Smith, Jerry Fisk, etc. I was drawn to the knife not the name.

An exception would be for those who collect a particular maker.

Collectors buy what they like! How does this work out for most of them in the after market?

If Mick was having a sense of humor...then that should have been the answer. Perhaps he should consider a "copyright" for the term.

Wolf's Tooth or Star Shimmer" could be utilized as "brand names" or a "Key word" for an internet search. As long as they can answer the question(s) then they are not violating the first commandment of sales.

Lots of nice knives make the rounds among dealers and collectors. I always grin when I see a knife I used to own show up for sale. I always ask myself "would I buy that knife now?".

I saw a Rick Hill Sub-Hilt Fighter that I owned in the mid 90's for sale on EBay. Still a great looking knife, it is on my watch list.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Kohai999 said:
For all we know, San Mei could be an inside joke to Mick…San(without in Spanish) Mei(Signature in Japanese)…..he has been known to have an active sense of humor.

I think to get bogged down in the semantics of it all IN this case, is counterproductive…..from where I sit, the choice of terms is solely one of marketing.
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No arguments there - if it's a tongue-in-cheek marketing term, so be it. But why not just say so? Admittedly, this thread is not the most appropriate location for the discussion - apologies to Keith. But the subject matter of the thread has been thoroughly discussed, and more information on the mysterious San Mei has been obtained than in the other thread where Neil / RL went into full lock-down mode. I am grateful to Josh for making some effort to answer the question, though I remain somewhat confused as to whether the knife RL showed is of laminated construction or not.

Roger
 
The original topic of this thread was interesting because almost all custom maker will have a "wait time" no matter how new they are IF the accept an order from a customer. Having a bunch of other orders in front of you just makes the wait time longer. The maker still has to make the knife and in the case of part time makers, he has to have the time to do it after he finishes doing his day job, etc. I have been delayed in making one knife for someone because it took me longer than expected to get my shop and the equipment that I needed to make the knife set up. It was not a piece that could be forged by hand in my garage. However, I let the customer know this and he was ok with that. I think that what Josh said is true. IF you have a waiting list of say 3 years, but you are able to get a customer his knife on time, or even better, in 2-2 1/2 years, then the customer is happy. If it takes 4-5 years..........or all eternity, then he will be displeased. Sometimes you have to guess, but it is nice to have a fairly accurate idea of what the delivery time will be. As for the "spec" pieces for shows, a maker has to promote his business, so it is expected that he will occasionally make one that is "not from the list"
 
RogerP said:
I am grateful to Josh for making some effort to answer the question, though I remain somewhat confused as to whether the knife RL showed is of laminated construction or not.

Roger
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Roger,

I understand that....if I shared your confusion(I do, but don't really care what the answer is:))I would call Neil or Josh on the phone....as it seems a clear answer to the question gets lost in translation on the 'net.

That's just me, though, when I have a question, I make the effort to get an answer, and it is frequently not easy. I am trying to establish the provenance of a recently purchased piece from a maker, who will not return my calls or e-mails, this is frustrating....however, both Josh and Neil will, and do.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Roger,

I understand that....if I shared your confusion(I do, but don't really care what the answer is:))I would call Neil or Josh on the phone....as it seems a clear answer to the question gets lost in translation on the 'net.

That's just me, though, when I have a question, I make the effort to get an answer, and it is frequently not easy. I am trying to establish the provenance of a recently purchased piece from a maker, who will not return my calls or e-mails, this is frustrating....however, both Josh and Neil will, and do.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Well, Josh might. Neil has already said in this thread that even if I asked him in person at the CKG show, he would NOT tell me. I have no reason to believe he would be any more forthcoming by phone / e-mail than via forum / in-person.

For what it's worth, I did post a picture of the knife on the other forum and asked straight-up whether it was of laminated construction, and if so, what forms the outer and core steels. I can't conceive how that would leave any room for any error in translation. Still waiting for an answer.

Cheers,

Roger
 
RogerP said:
For what it's worth, I did post a picture of the knife on the other forum and asked straight-up whether it was of laminated construction, and if so, what forms the outer and core steels. I can't conceive how that would leave any room for any error in translation. Still waiting for an answer.

Cheers,

Roger
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It also occurs to me that the "SAN" of San Mei could be the traditional "3" as in san mai, but the "MEI" could be "signatureS"....maybe there are three principals involved in the steel manufacture...don't know, just rambling/postulating.

Roger........Neil is his own person....my feeling is that personal interaction at the show will diffuse any bad feelings to the point that meaningful dialogue may be engaged....if not, I can always ask Mick the questions at Blade, but so could you.:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
..if not, I can always ask Mick the questions at Blade, but so could you.:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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He was kind enough to answer - on his own forum - no b.s., no stonewalling, no misdirecction, no obfuscating - for which I am grateful:

"That blade is a simple random bar. It is not San Mai.

When i make San Mai, the core is 1995."

Now, as to what "San Mei" might mean - I'll leave to any other interested party to pursue. But the blade posted by RL in the other thread is not of laminated construction. Period.

Roger

PS - I'm assuming he meant 1095.
 
Keith, sorry for the continued thread drift...

Steven, I agree that a call can get things sorted out a lot quicker than over the net, but in this case, it's a question that's relevant to the general public. It's possible that a buyer could pick up one of those blades thinking it was made using a laminated technique. If the question had been answered clearly in the original thread it would avoid any confusion and leave no room for doubt.
 
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