"Mall Ninja"??

I remember the Gecko45 story. The definitive mall ninja. That zombie squad thread was hilarious and also a little scary. One of the other videos pointed out the 9/11 thing on those Dark Ops knives. I agree that it's marketing a tragedy to cater to anti-terrorist fantasies and sell products. I don't want to sound too negative but I don't care for the phrases "tactical" "urban EDC" and "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." I don't wear a parachute every day just incase I need it to save my life. I just stay away from those situations altogether.

It usually is just a jest to inform someone they may be dabbling on the verge of silly in the territory of the aforementioned examples.

Some specific features I think fit the bill (that is what this thread is about?) would be: finger choils, finger grooves, partial serrations, reverse grip jimping, tanto tips, decorative anti-reflective coating (black but plastered with billboarding,) finger notches on the spine of a blade, penetrator tip, glass breaker/"skull crusher", blade stock thickness that sacrifices cutting ability, guard that extends below the cutting edge, blood grooves, recurve blades. Chisel grinds can be viewed as mall ninja-like but aren't inherently so as they are used in japanese sushi knives. Wait a minute... that would make it authentic ninja?!?!

http://sogknives.com/store/TF-1.html This rope cutter feature seems mall ninja to me. Wouldn't the blade just open slightly if you forced a rope into that groove?

http://www.extremaratioknivesdivision.eu/inglese/military/nemesis.htm This is an example of billboarding. Does the "58 HRC Stainless Cobalt Steel" really need to be there? The knives I carry are smaller than the font alone.

Basically things that try to turn a knife into a fighting weapon or a tool that does more than just cut hint at mall ninja. A fighting blade only has to be slightly longer than the other guys'. Most of the features are just artistic flourishes. While I don't go for any of it myself, I can at least respect someone who does provided they don't take the marketing hype in earnestness.

NSFW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N6Phmale_Q for Charlie Mike, watch 2:00 to the end, you might think it's funny :p
 
LOL at that one. He got it right. Where does the Bill Of Rights say you have a right not to be offended?
 
RyanMM said:
http://sogknives.com/store/TF-1.html This rope cutter feature seems mall ninja to me. Wouldn't the blade just open slightly if you forced a rope into that groove?

http://www.extremaratioknivesdivision.eu/inglese/military/nemesis.htm This is an example of billboarding. Does the "58 HRC Stainless Cobalt Steel" really need to be there? The knives I carry are smaller than the font alone.
Click to expand...

Have you ever used either of these knives? I don't care for the rope-cutter sheath slot, but I bet it does work.

I own the 2 largest and the smallest Extrema Ratio folders: the MPC, Nemesis, and BA-1. Perhaps the decorative style in Italy is more flamboyant than you're used to. The knives themselves are impressively capable.
 
I can't believe I read that whole "Mall Ninja" blog entry... Was a good laugh though.

"Mall Ninja" knives, are basically what GregY said; think "tactical poseur". Knives with ridiculous over-the-top descriptions and purposes. For example the Dark Ops knives which have been posted.
 
Well to be fair I haven't used the SOG example and I understand the blade has the same capacity to cut rope opened or closed. It just seemed a cumbersome extra effort in the photo that shows a hand wrapped around the knife presumably to keep it shut. My initial reaction was that it seemed superfluous so I offered it as food for thought.

Nobody said any of these knives didn't cut. I believe you when you say the Extrema Ratio knives work as advertised. Still, I think it's fair game to mention the phrases peppering the knives might be considered a little flashy for what the company describes them as being intended for. "The company deals with the development, making of prototypes and production of knives for use by the military, police and emergency services." I just picked the Nemesis because I wondered if they actually HRC test every single blade they etch that into---and even if they do, compare it to the old Case "xx" markings which were much more subtle.

I wasn't trying to pick specific mall ninja knives but rather traits which, in excess, seperate a knife further and further from the SAKs and kitchen knives average people are accustomed to.
 
Quick analysis of a mall ninja knife.

Mantis MTF-4Ti.

* Blade length: 3.88"
* Overall length: 8.25"
* Carry system: Pocket clip
* Blade material: S30V, black
* Handle material: G-10
* Lock style: Liner lock
* Titanium liners


5_79638.jpg


The good. Mats - s30v blade, g10 handles, and Ti liners.

The meh. Linerlock (hopefully decent thickness to the liner), tanto shape blade (I dont lke em, but wont put em in the mall ninja cat), all black (just cuz its black doesnt make it mall ninja. I do prefer a reg sating metal blade tho)

The mall ninja stuff. The blade cutouts/grooves with the jimping are overdone and not necessary. The 4 cutouts in the handle are not necessary. The rectangular bands screwed into the handle are seemingly made to look like armor plating imo and hokey. 4 times the needed screws to keep the slabs on imo. The only thing missing is the addition of "special ops" stamped on the blade. Look how "cool" it looks.

Price is about $200.

Instead, just get a ...

military%20blk%20plain.jpg
 
Mall ninja knives are ones with lots of useless features that are designed to appeal to people who have never had to use a knife on anything more offensive than an orange. Not all of them are "Tacti-cool", but that style seems to attract more than it's fair share of bozos, both buying and making. Generally, the more things that are tacked onto a knife, the greater the chance of it being considered mall-ninja-ish.

Non-reflective coating? Not too MN.

Non-reflective coating in "urban" camoflage? MN.

Cut out in blade to allow single handed opening? Not MN.

Cut outs in blade making intricate patterns, logos, or having more holes than blade? MN.

Gut hook on a hunting knife? Redundant, but not MN.

Gut hook on a tactical knife? MN.

Saw teeth/ serrations on the back of a camping knife? Not MN.

Saw teeth/ serrations on every surface of most of the blade? MN.

D style finger guard on a machete? Goofy, but not MN.

Brass knuckles, Knucker duster, finger guard with spikes, blades, skull-crusher attachments or cheese graters? MN.

Standard blade shape? Not MN.

Kris, wavy, or exagerated curves, multiple points, or anything designed to "catch an opponent's blade"? MN.

A knife designed to cut things? Not MN.

A knife designed for "combat", "deanimating", "urban anything", "piercing body armor", or "tactical responders"? MN.

Generally, if a knife is utterly useless for anything other than impressing other geeks, it is in Mall Ninja territory. If you want to test if your knive is a Mall Ninja blade, try using it. Chop up veggies for dinner. Try to prepare food with it. Clean game with it if you are a hunter. Try to use it for repetative tasks for more than a minute. Even try using the gizmos on it to see if they actually do what the manufacturer claims they do. (e.g. the wire cutters on that dark ops knife) If your hand hurts when you are done, it is a piece of mall ninja garbage. If it can't do what they say it is supposed to, it is mall ninja garbage. And if you post a picture of it on here and get laughed at... well, you get the picture.

-Mb
 
Lots of blades can be classed as mall ninja but they more generally apply to knives that have shapes/features that may make them look intimidating or outrageous but are in fact of dubious practical value. IMO the Sabretooth sits on the fence between practical and mall ninja

http://spiveysabertoothknife.com/
 
RyanMM said:
http://sogknives.com/store/TF-1.html This rope cutter feature seems mall ninja to me. Wouldn't the blade just open slightly if you forced a rope into that groove?
Click to expand...

IMO this knife sits comfortably on the practical side of the scale (ie not a MN). The spring assist on the SOG Trident also keeps the blade closed. Even hitting the exposed blade in the cord cutter slot with a rod will not push it past the camming point for it to open. Plus - the Trident has a safety lock that would normally be activated when engaged in extreme activities to avoid the possibility of the blade opening accidentally. It's actually a well thought out design even if the looks don't appeal to everyone
 
IMO "mall ninja" is more a state of mind, rather than a reflection on what you purchase.

For example I like knives of all styles including some of the "mall ninja" styles, but I carry a slipjoint most of the time and have no delusions of being a warrior. So I don't even qualify as a couch commando.

My two best friends are on active duty, one just returned from Iraq. One carries a Gerber multi tool and a small slippjoint. The other carried an Ontario XM-1 folder the entire time he was in Iraq. It was issued to him as part of a trial. Neither one understands why I have so many blades.

It's a hobby... I buy what I like and never care what anyone else says about the products I choose.
 
antonio_luiz said:
IMO this knife sits comfortably on the practical side of the scale (ie not a MN). The spring assist on the SOG Trident also keeps the blade closed. Even hitting the exposed blade in the cord cutter slot with a rod will not push it past the camming point for it to open. Plus - the Trident has a safety lock that would normally be activated when engaged in extreme activities to avoid the possibility of the blade opening accidentally. It's actually a well thought out design even if the looks don't appeal to everyone
Click to expand...

This is it in a nutshell. If it's practical, it's not Mall Ninja. If it's marketing, it's total mall ninja.

Wave? Thumb Hole? Practical.

Tiger Stripe? Mall Ninja.

Glass Breaker? Practical IF it's unobtrusive

Skulls or other "tough guy" crap all over the place? Mall Ninja.

Knife is light enough that you'll actually carry it? Practical.

Folding knife weighing over a half pound or too thick to actually cut? Mall Ninja.

Maker has actual skill making knives? Good

Maker uses shortcuts and calls them "features" or say the knife is supposed to be "used"? Mall Ninja.

Design reflects makers experience? Practical

Design is based off a completely fictitious background that was used for years to promote their product? MALL NINJA.

Hundreds of thousands of people are smoked every year with common kitchen knives & machetes. Don't confuse marketing with actual design prowess. Don't think your $500 boutique piece is going to make you an operator. Form follows function; bullshit baffles brains. There are a number of people who've foisted designs on the public that have no basis in reality... but nobody likes to hear the emperor has no clothes when they've paid hundreds of dollars on image.

Learn lessons from the original mall ninja threads - you wouldn't take some dude seriously when he works at a mall and says he's going to duct tape plates to his tshirt, right? Why would you accept BS, excuses & rhetoric when paying top dollar?
 
Hermione_Epic_Win.jpg


Word up Spark!
 
Josh K said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dork Ops
By the time you are using your knife and not your rifle or sidearm, things have already gone to hell. Our knives are designed to retain maximum grip and leverage when covered with hydraulic fluid or blood. Our mil-tested handle designs contain ground quartz inserts for maximum grip, aided by substantial finger grooves that orient the knife in the dark. The blades are long and sharp enough to penetrate both airplane skins and Comm-bloc body-armor. Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities.


Yeah, on their website. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Gecko45 got a job writing copy for Dark Ops!
 
Over the last 15 years, I have noticed more and more of:

- black blade, combo edge knives. I want satin, plain edge but some knives only offer this configuration.
- bags, backpacks with an overkill of molle attachment points over every square inch
- flashlights with tight throw spotlight beams instead of practical flood beams

I guess the tacticool, mall ninja advertising sells.
 
antonio_luiz said:
Lots of blades can be classed as mall ninja but they more generally apply to knives that have shapes/features that may make them look intimidating or outrageous but are in fact of dubious practical value. IMO the Sabretooth sits on the fence between practical and mall ninja

http://spiveysabertoothknife.com/
Click to expand...

The first time I read about the Sabertooth, I was not impressed. Then I was at a knife show and came to a table with the Tactical Knives issue in your link, and the Sabertooth on display. I got a chance to play with it. My respect for the design went way up. If I ever did get one, I still might opt for the version without the sawteeth. :)
 
Lots of blades can be classed as mall ninja but they more generally apply to knives that have shapes/features that may make them look intimidating or outrageous but are in fact of dubious practical value. IMO the Sabretooth sits on the fence between practical and mall ninja

http://spiveysabertoothknife.com/
Click to expand...

Man, That Sabertooth Is Beautiful!!!!!!! I Handled one at a show. Couldn't Afford it at the time, already bought an AR. I'm Not active Duty. Why do I Need a Fully pimpped out,Rails, lazers, light, optics on my AR for? Fun I guess. I have a bolt action Ruger MK II in .223. That would get the Job done I suppose. as would a Nice Case XX. But It's Just Damn FUN to have That "Scary black gun" with all the tricks. They are all "Practical", IF I was Clearing Houses in Gaza, or a Zombie attack broke out:D

That Sabertooth Goes Great With that .45 long colt too. One could do Some Bad ass six-gun twirling tricks with that Knife, along with the Colt. That would be SWEET:)

But as Been Posted, I think "Mall Ninja" is a State of mind. But IMHO there's a fine line. Look at all of us. Just Blogging on and on about knives? To any non-Knife nut, WE'RE FRICKEN NUTS!!!!!!! I mean, Not only does My poor Wife have to "Help me find my Microtech", or "Check out this new Mosier" all the time, I AM ACTUALLY TAKING AND READING ABOUT KNIVES AT 3 AM!!!!!!!

It Is annoying to go to the sporting goods store and see all SOG and Cold steel all black American Tantos all over.
BUT, I do own a few Emersons, And a LOT of Striders. LOVE Microtech, ESPECIALLY the Makora II with the SKULL CRUSHER,(Is Satin finish though:D)

Like another poster said, There is a Huge increase in those types of knives and that "Tactical" marketing strategy in recent years. And all the Packs with MOLLE attachment points everywhere. "Dark ops" are just out there. Especially talking "De-animation" in their ads.Jeesh. Even Worse are Total copies of Nice Extrema Ratio Knives. (The Italian Spec-ops/Infantry/anti terror/airborne really are issued some models though) Hummmm Why all this "Tactical" "warrior" Marketing to Civies in recent years? It WORKS? People are Scared? a little of Both?

There is a fine line between being "Ready" and "Security Conscious" and being "mall Ninja". I felt safer in my Unit. At least we where expecting trouble.
Now a 15 year old "banger" could ambush me while getting milk. It's Dangerous in the States. Everywhere for that matter. Punks are running wild. I can't even tell where the "ghetto" ends anymore.
I Know I have a passion for the Martial Arts, and for me that includes Knives and Guns also. My "Paranoia" is contagious. My Wife HATED Guns and Knives when I met her. Now She CCWs a S&W Air weight ( With mall Ninja Crimson Trace Grips) And a Protech Brand #2 auto. She also has a Cold Steel Safekeeper rigged in her purse so if she grabs the handle and drops the purse it's out. We Attended Courses at Frontsight. That was GREAT. Lots of Various backgrounds. Police Officers, Former AND About to deploy Military. And Regular Civies like My Wife.
Dr. Ignatius Piazza, The Owner/Founder of Frontsight was NEVER In law Enforcement OR the Military. NEVER was a "High Speed Operator". He Was Just a Paranoid ( Justifiably) Civie who Wanted to Master the "Art" Of Gun Fighting. NOT Just Target practice. He came up with an Excellent Idea. Great Instructors.
Some Of our more "Liberal" "friends" and family are/where SCARED to see a Moded Rem 870, with a Sidesaddle loaded with Slugs sitting in the corner. Never mind ARs With all the trimmings. But again, Like My Wife, Some became "Converts".

Now, that's where the fine line is. We have Civies Training, sometimes up to and beyond Police and Military standards. In Gun, knife, and Hand to hand. Magazine racks full of "Tactical Knives". "SWAT WEAPONS","AR NEWS". Sporting goods Stores Full of "Tactical" Knives, MOLLE Packs and Military rifles.
Then We have the Dumb ass( Doesn't matter what age really) Punks that Will Actually Get a "Dark ops" knife and an AR(Or some "Taci-cool" Black gun). Post You tube vids.( And Here) Tell everyone how tough they are. Although NEVER TRAINED A DAY. Never a Dojo, Rarely (if ever) at the range. If they do it's with a $5,000 H&K G3. With MOLLE Vest.
It's a Fine Line. It's THE INDIVIDUAL. NOT THE KNIFE or GUN(Dark-ops excluded, Those Ads are too much)But One Would Still make a Nice Weapon in Steve Tarani's Hands, (If he accidentally happened upon one:p)
Back to the Sabertooth. If My Six Gun Was Out, That Knife Would be a Great CQC secondary back-up WEAPON. It Would Be hard, if not IMPOSSIBLE to Disarm Because of the Finger hole. The Saw spine would Tear some Vicious back cuts. Practical features. ESPECIALLY IF YOUR KNIFE IS DESIGNED TO BE A WEAPON FIRST and to Cut Apples and Oranges as a secondary usage.
I Think About to 150,000 years 200,000 years ago, an early Human Hit another with a sharp rock and noticed it did more Damage then a round one. Flint knapping/KNIVES where borne. We used them to kill off Neanderthal. They Started as weapons. And Still are. They have utilitarian uses now that we don't have to kill our own food. But they are what they are. And just because one is Designed to BE a WEAPON instead to clean your nails or do carpeting doesn't make it mall ninja. The Owner does.
 
If this set-up is "Mall Ninja" Then I'm the King. This is My dream EDC set-up, including the Rifle:D
Mysetup.jpg
 
Spark said:
This is it in a nutshell. If it's practical, it's not Mall Ninja. If it's marketing, it's total mall ninja.

Wave? Thumb Hole? Practical.

Tiger Stripe? Mall Ninja.

Glass Breaker? Practical IF it's unobtrusive

Skulls or other "tough guy" crap all over the place? Mall Ninja.

Knife is light enough that you'll actually carry it? Practical.

Folding knife weighing over a half pound or too thick to actually cut? Mall Ninja.

Maker has actual skill making knives? Good

Maker uses shortcuts and calls them "features" or say the knife is supposed to be "used"? Mall Ninja.

Design reflects makers experience? Practical

Design is based off a completely fictitious background that was used for years to promote their product? MALL NINJA.
Click to expand...

Awesome guide to recognizing Mall Ninja gear.:thumbup:
 
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