Manufacturers, please heed the call...

mdsmith said:
I think it's unfair of companies to assume that everyone who buys a knife has the means and skill to pick up their slack in the sharpening department. ... The companie's job is to provide me with a knife with a good working edge, and my job is to maintain that edge needed.
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I totally agree. And given the state of affairs for knife companies these days (RIP Camillus and Schrade :( ) I can't believe Queen still sends out butter knives. I know our grandfathers expected to sharpen a new knife to their liking -- but so what!? Right or wrong, today's consumers don't. Buck, Case and Victorinox can send out slipjoints with a very serviceable edge. The others should keep up.

-- Mark
 
While we're on the subject of edges, I think it's only fair to give credit where credit is due. I recieved my Northwoods indian river about a week ago, and it came with an awesome edge on it. Nice and sharp, and perfectly symetrical. This is how all knives should come....
 
I have yet to receive a non-usable edge on any new knife from Case, regardless of price point. Sometimes there are wire edges, sometimes the edge grind is less than perfect, and occasionally the edge is downright ugly. But they ALL cut right out of the box. Most will shave hair, and some are downright scary-sharp. Case still knows what they are doing in this regard. :thumbup: This is one of several reasons why Case gets all of my business these days.

In my experience, Buck does a great job sharpening. All of my Bucks have cut well right out of the box. :thumbup:

Although GEC knows how to make a great knife, they need improvement in the factory sharpness category. I have a couple GECs that came completely unusable. One in particular, a #25 EZ-open, still will not cut well after a couple long, vigorous sharpening/ reprofiling sessions. That blade is a disaster. The rest of the knife is gorgeous, but since it can't be used for what it was made for, it's essentially worthless to me.

Everyone knows about Queen's edges. Their reputation for poor factory edges is well-deserved, IMHO. They do seem to do a better job on the Schatt & Morgan line, most of mine came with decent edges.

I too would like to see the American factories up their game in terms of factory sharpness. From my observations, most people nowadays don't know about sharpening. At all. If the average person buys a knife that isn't sharp out of the box, they will try to use it for a while, be disgusted with its performance, and then discard it as worthless. I don't think it would occur to them to sharpen a knife that came dull from the factory, they'll just think it is a poorly made and/or designed knife. They won't be interested in that type of knife any more, and they will advise their friends against buying them as well. This is not good for a small, niche industry, when there are plenty of readily available alternatives with more readily-apparent useful features.
 
Everybody that uses a knife everyday or often, should know, has to know, how to sharpen a knife. This last step of knifemaking can be done by millions of users in the field. The other steps of making a knife are much more difficult or those same millions of folks would be making their own knives. I submit that manufacturers that don't sharpen the knife to a usable edge are just plain sloppy. Why should I expect them to do better work on the rest of the knife? - Ed
 
I am a perfectionist with what concerns edges
I buy and use knives as..knifes and it mean to CUT and that's it

I bought several GEC, Case and other slippies in the last months

they ehiter have a bad, uneven, obtuse or no edge

to mantain or make better/shaper is one thing, a medium sharpened knife can be made sharp in a matter of minutes, an obtuse edged knife or one with a low edge that may even be obtuse (GEC) is a pain to sharpen as it has to be reprofiled and sharpened from scratch

a one bladed knife is one thing, a 2 blade trapper is another story, take time and I can't use it immediately
I usually use the factory edge on all knives (Kershaw, case, Bark River...) and then make it better when needed, the edge is there and it's not a banana edge or a obtuse/unsharpened one and I can make it cut like a laser in a few strops

please sharpen your knives correctly to a at least usable edge with non simmetry or height issues

use more micarta and modern materials, I love bone but micarta and G-10 are nice too, see many customs

please check BLADE PLAY as pivots cannot be tightened/loosen by us

it takes little effort to make a good slippie a grate cutting companion to take with us

I bought 5-6 SAKS in the last year, they suffer this problem too, 4 vic where either medium sharp or had some good burr I had to remove, 2 wenger soldiers have very toothy edges, sharpened not straight but at an angle...

Maxx
 
mdsmith said:
While we're on the subject of edges, I think it's only fair to give credit where credit is due. I recieved my Northwoods indian river about a week ago, and it came with an awesome edge on it. Nice and sharp, and perfectly symetrical. This is how all knives should come....
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Funny you should mention the Indian River Jack. I bought mine back in January. I am still trying to put a usable edge on it. Beautiful knife that might cut butter. Every time I look at it, it irks me that spent that much money on a tool that I cannot use. Now, I am not the best sharpener in the world, but I am better than 97% of the public. I will keep working at it because I like the frame, but the knife just isn't usable.
 
Thank y'all for your responses.

Please note that I avoided naming any specific manufacturers. However, I must say that, in my experience, a Case or a Buck is generally delivered with an edge that I wouldn't complain about. A Victorinox always carries a great edge out of the box. And, sadly, for us traditional knife fans, most tactical knives are manufactured with great edges.

My point is a well intended heads-up for the good people who still manufacture traditional knives in the US because each time I see one of the great old companies close their doors it plain breaks my heart. So why not make that little effort to put an edge on an otherwise good knife.
 
On page 1 I said; "I'd rather have a knife come to me with just a moderately sharp edge..........". That doesn't mean that a dull knife is acceptable. I'd at least like it to cut a string, small rope, open a box, or maybe cut a piece of paper.

GEC seems to be listening as the last couple knives I've had from them have had decent edges. Schatt & Morgan and Queen are a different story -- not serviceable out of the box at all.
 
If a knife company can't ship a knife to market with at least a working edge suitable for being employed immediately upon being taken out of the box, then perhaps they should consider retooling and manufacturing ball bearings. Companies don't have a right to exist. Companies come and go all the time. They have to earn that right to exist and flourish.

There's no excuse for a dull knife. None. The few cents more wear and tear on the belts to bring the bevel down to the edge is a pittance and will save the company many customer service complaints (returns, etc.) and garner it a favorable reputation in the marketplace. And it's the marketplace that counts.

To expect folks to support inferior products based upon their being produced by a domestic company is nothing more than corporate welfare.
 
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I want my knives to come reasonably sharp. I'm reluctant to buy from one maker because of their reputation for blunt knives. I don't want to spend hours sharpening a new knife.
 
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Blues said:
If a knife company can't ship a knife to market with at least a working edge suitable for being employed immediately upon being taken out of the box, then perhaps they should consider retooling and manufacturing ball bearings. Companies don't have a right to exist. Companies come and go all the time. They have to earn that right to exist and flourish.

There's no excuse for a dull knife. None. The few cents more wear and tear on the belts to bring the bevel down to the edge is a pittance and will save the company many customer service complaints (returns, etc.) and garner it a favorable reputation in the marketplace. And it's the marketplace that counts.

To expect folks to support inferior products based upon their being produced by a domestic company is nothing more than corporate welfare.
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Well said!
But, some can get away with a less than shaving sharp edge more than others.

I would only say that for me, and many will feel different, if I play "one of these things is not like the other" and the objects in question are USA production slippies from:
Case
Queen
Schrade
Camillus
GEC

To me GEC is most unlike the others both in quality and quantity produced, and while I definitely think they could and should do a better job of sharpening at the factory, I am willing to overlook that if necessary for the rest of the package.
Now the flip-side of that coin is I expect GEC's products to be closer to fine than any of the others when it comes to F&F and quality of materials. I can't fix a crooked blade, or a proud pin, or a gap between the liner and spring, or scales that don't color match very well etc.. but i can and do have to sharpen the blades on my knives, so that I can live with. Not that I should have to, but I will for what I feel is a somewhat exclusive quality product.
 
Peruna1998 said:
Funny you should mention the Indian River Jack. I bought mine back in January. I am still trying to put a usable edge on it. Beautiful knife that might cut butter. Every time I look at it, it irks me that spent that much money on a tool that I cannot use. Now, I am not the best sharpener in the world, but I am better than 97% of the public. I will keep working at it because I like the frame, but the knife just isn't usable.
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LOL Thats exactly what I'm going through,received mine on Monday could barley cut paper. Last night I got so frustrated with it, plus the money I spent, I threw it in my junky knife drawer. I would like to build up my slipjoints collection, but am gun shy of which manufacturer I can count on.
 
What Blues said. Couldn't agree more.

A simple sharpening job to improve the edge and to bring it to your own level of pleasing sharpness, that's nothing. Piece of cake. Having to completely reprofile the blade to create an edge is ridiculous and unacceptable.
 
I had to reprofile my Northfield #48 to 40deg inclusive. The factory edge would cut, but not as well as a premium knife should, IMHO. 1095 will get sharp enough to fillet a flea, so I agree, GEC absolutely should put a better edge on their knives.
Would it help to contact them in that regard?
 
Folks, the intent of this thread is not to get brand specific but rather to express our perspectives on the topic under discussion.

The "Feedback" forum is the place to take your particular gripes with a particular company or knife.

Let's please respect the OP's intent so that we may continue having a dialog in this sub-forum.
 
I wonder if the thick edges come from people that are trying to grind the edge without scratching the sides of the blade and ruining the finish. It seems possible if sharpening is the last step in the knife making process.
 
there was another thread similar to this one a while back. i'm too lazy to look for it now.
if a company has a rep. for bad edge then just don't buy their products. especially since it's a buyers market so to speak. they will learn to build what we will buy or go broke. as long as they are making profit i dought any of them will listen anyway.
leadership has a big role in how companies deal with the environment they are in. i have seen bad leaders or managers ruin a good business time and again.
 
Lessons that should have been learned in the knife industry have gone unheeded. It would have been smart for the knife industry to observe the US car industry.

You cannot sell a premium priced product without the product itself being good quality. I firmly believed people will buy and pay for premium products. But when they pay a premium and feel they got less than they should have, or worst case, outright screwed, you lose them as customers.

Compare 80s, 90s, early 2000s offerings from foreign designed and built cars to domestic. People simply got tired of the quality gap and made Toyota #1 for years. American workers can indeed build quality, as a few of the Toyota models are built in America by Americans but with quality control and newer plant and equipment.

About 15 years ago I was buying some Puma knives of a discontinued model to have my company logo engraved on the bolsters. These were Christmas goodies for my employees and a couple of fellow contractors. I called a seller that sold the knife I want and asked him about a discount on 15 or so knives.

We got to talking as knife lovers do. He was an older fellow, and really loved his knives, particularly his CASE knives. But he told me 15 years ago the situation we have now in the domestic v. foreign knives was was going to happen. He was set up as a dealer by a few suppliers, and he actually sold enough to get to go on factory (domestic only) tours, but had gone to see several presentations (in the USA) by different offshore makers. He was knocked over by the investment that the foreign companies made in the knife business.

Investment in training, machinery, blade standardization, and standardization of materials. He predicted a slow demise of the American knife industry NOT based on price, but on quality alone. Of the domestic factories he visited he was completely unimpressed with the 100 year old dilapidated machines, and the visible lack of quality control.

In our conversation, we never factored in the idea that after a rocky start of about 10 years the Chinese/Taiwanese knives would be as good as they are now. We never factored in that they would use beautiful bone, horn, and treated burl woods. Neither of us ever believed they would get the fit and finish where they are now.

Most importantly, we never considered that their foreign products could outshine the American products - at 1/10th the cost.

Kinda like General Motors... they owned the whole roost for so long they took their loyal buyer for granted. Look where they are now.

That all being said, I will go to the end of the road with this. As long as reputable vendors continue to sell me great American made knives at fair prices, I will continue to buy American, and I will continue to buy Queen. I would love for them and the other domestics to be around for another 100 years, but I sure doubt it.

And to stay on topic, of course a new knife should have at least a working edge on it when you buy it. How ridiculous that it wouldn't. I am not saying razor sharp, but still, isn't the edge part of the fit and finish?

There is a Youtube video of the PUMA factory making the venerated "White Hunter" knife. I watched it from start to finish. To get the razor edge (BY HAND, mind you) on a belt, it took him about 45 seconds. Even with that nasty curve on the end, and those really complex grind angles.

In my opinion, if the manufacturers could get someone to sharpen and finish the edges as well as the guys I see with the paper wheels while I am at the gun shows, they would be in business. I routinely see them take a knife for a touch up and finish it in less than a minute. They always slice a lightly held piece of paper for your approval when finishing, so it isn't a gimmick. But it is fast.... I just wonder sometimes how many they could do an hour and how that could apply here.

Robert
 
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