Manufacturers, please heed the call...

My view may be unpopular, but here it is anyway.
1. I have a thousand or so knives, new, used, antique, high-end, low-end. I have received a tiny handful that had a usable working edge. Mostly CASE knives. I have not received ONE knife out of ALL of them that was truly sharp. Not one.
2. Re: 1. above: I no longer expect it. It is not important.
3. Of the above knives, I use a few. I sharpen them myself. Big deal.
4. If you use a knife, and it is razor sharp, it won't be for long.
5. A truly sharp edge takes practice and work and time and knife companies can't make money doing that. And you can't afford it. So suck it up.
6. If you are one of the very few people on this forum who actually use their knives as tools, and use them hard, then learn how to sharpen them. And if you are one of the majority of people who post their knives on the EDC threads, give me a break. Those knives aren't getting used for anything but deftly grazing a piece of Scotch tape once in awhile.
7. I told you my view would be unpopular! :)
 
Cal, I can sharpen my knives really well. In fact I often enjoy doing so to see what the knife might be capable of.

That said, I don't want to have to do the job that the manufacturer should have done to begin with.

And, while sharpening an already established bevel is one thing, having to re-do sloppy or obtuse bevels is really not pardonable for a company whose forte' is supposedly grinding knife blades and offering them for sale. Nor is it necessarily a quick job depending on what you consider satisfactory.

I totally understand your point of view and I don't mind sharpening knives (that I dull) to my satisfaction. Just don't ask me to have to do what I should have already paid for up front before delivery.
 
tongueriver said:
6. If you are one of the very few people on this forum who actually use their knives as tools, and use them hard, then learn how to sharpen them.
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I know how to sharpen knives. I know how to do laundry too. That doesn't mean I'm going to let a store sell me a dirty shirt just because it's going to get dirty anyway.
 
Blues said:
That said, I don't want to have to do the job that the manufacturer should have done to begin with.

And, while sharpening an already established bevel is one thing, having to re-do sloppy or obtuse bevels is really not pardonable for a company whose forte' is supposedly grinding knife blades and offering them for sale. Nor is it necessarily a quick job depending on what you consider satisfactory.

I totally understand your point of view and I don't mind sharpening knives (that I dull) to my satisfaction. Just don't ask me to have to do what I should have already paid for up front before delivery.
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I agree with you E! Why should I pull a knife outta the box and it be dull. I mean come on. My mail runs around 2:45 to 3 pm a day and I leave for work at 2:45, so when a new knife arrives I want to carry I don't have time to sharpen it. I just want to open the package drop the knife in my pocket and be on my way.
 
Blues said:
I totally understand your point of view and I don't mind sharpening knives (that I dull) to my satisfaction. Just don't ask me to have to do what I should have already paid for up front before delivery.
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Exactly!
 
artmichalek said:
I know how to sharpen knives. I know how to do laundry too. That doesn't mean I'm going to let a store sell me a dirty shirt just because it's going to get dirty anyway.
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That's a good analogy. I can and do sharpen my knives when they need it, but I want what I paid for. If it isn't sharp, it isn't much of a knife. As Elliott said, a good edge is part of the fit and finish.
 
tongueriver said:
My view may be unpopular, but here it is anyway.
1. I have a thousand or so knives, new, used, antique, high-end, low-end. I have received a tiny handful that had a usable working edge. Mostly CASE knives. I have not received ONE knife out of ALL of them that was truly sharp. Not one.
2. Re: 1. above: I no longer expect it. It is not important.
3. Of the above knives, I use a few. I sharpen them myself. Big deal.
4. If you use a knife, and it is razor sharp, it won't be for long.
5. A truly sharp edge takes practice and work and time and knife companies can't make money doing that. And you can't afford it. So suck it up.
6. If you are one of the very few people on this forum who actually use their knives as tools, and use them hard, then learn how to sharpen them. And if you are one of the majority of people who post their knives on the EDC threads, give me a break. Those knives aren't getting used for anything but deftly grazing a piece of Scotch tape once in awhile.
7. I told you my view would be unpopular! :)
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I agree with alot of this tongueriver, and don't regard your opinion as unpopular. I also see Elliots point of view. I don't kill myself getting a knife hair shaving sharp, because, as you say, it won't be for long. The blades should have at least a decent profile to start with, as well as an even grind,whether hollow or flat, and should cut halfway decent out of the box. I guess thats why I like stockmans, because each blade has a different edge profile I can make.

As for the OP topic, I think this traditional forum has the potential to be influential to these companies in question. I also think that they are, or some are reading this stuff. Maybe they all are and only some really do do things to improve. I think the best way to have any influence is through diplomacy, like through the forum knives, as simple as holding them to a higher standard. If you look at the patterns they are coming out with as well as handle materials, they have to be taking some of it in. The average person off the street isn't going to look at a congress and say I need one of those, but companies are making them still. I also see start up companies coming up and doing well.I believe positive reinforcement is best and I will continue to support all of them as I can afford.:cool:
 
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Yep, the slip joint manufactors are slipping with there edges. I've got a couple in with a good edge in the last few years, but most where not close to sharp.

If the makers of modern production knives can give you a great edge I see no reason why the traditional knife manufactors can't do it.
I got a Spyderco UKPK(there version of a slip joint) last week for $34, and its made in US and as sharp as any custom or production folder I've ever seen. If they can do it consistantly for that price I don't see why the traditional manufactors can't.
 
Ken,I totally agree,if spyderco can do it, why can't the traditional makers do it?
 
A year or so back I purchased a large traditional lockback folder from one of the famous US factories mentioned on this thread. The knife arrived with no edge......it was totally blunt.

I do have reasonable sharpening skills but I am by no means an expert and I use a Spyderco sharpmaker for most of my sharpening needs. It would have taken me hours to put a decent edge on that knife and after paying good money for it........ I was not impressed.

I gave it to one of our local resident professional sharpeners that I trust and in front of me in less than 5 minutes with hand tools the knife was razor sharp with a perfect bevel.

This knife had never been through PROPER quality control and inspection.

Now I am prepared to go through all that to get the result. But the average Joe in the gun or knife shop will not......he will move on to a sharper knife and if that happens to be from Germany or Switzerland well so be it.......

The product MUST DO what it says on the box right out of the box. If not it will eventually be rejected by the market.

I agree with the OP. Knives, a utility cutting tool, should be delivered new from the factory able to accomplish there primary task perfectly.....In other words they should be sharp.
 
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This was interesting reading. I think you are all right about this. I expect the same. If I by a knife from a deasent company it should be sharp. I have all the posibilities to make a knife sharp with two big motorized grinding wheels a lot of stones, natural, diamonds, cheramic, sandpaper. I do it frehandedly and get good results. I would say that sharpening is the one thing I do most above average peoples level. I also has the means to do this with realy hard steels BUT its a shame I have to do it on a new knife. They should at least has the edge to hang to a fingernail. When I do knifes myself I would find it most shamefull if they werent sharp when leeving me. But as things are like they is, I think you all should own at least a water chilled bench grinding wheel. Its a pain to do the initial work with handtools.

Bosse
 
Got to think a little more.
The cheepest knifes from scandinavia all can cut from fabric.
EKA, mora, hultafors, Martiini, Järvenpää, helle, brusletto, Karesuando all are big manifactors with massprodused unpersonal making of each knife and still every and one of them can cut and has deasent but not perfect grinds.
Same goes for example for Victorinox.

This has not to do with eather tradition or bad skills its a matter of pride in the own product leving the factory to an expectfull customer.

I cant realy find the reason about this with colectors. Doesnt a coletor want the knifes in the colection to be sharp. The edge is one of the things that shows quality together with fit and finish and good material. A colection has to be more than just the numberage of the colected thing. I would consider 10 good custom knifes a greater colection than 1000 poor edged factory knifes with just the color of the handles to make them unike.

Dont value my two sents more than they are wourth.

Bosse
 
I agree that all brand spanking new slipjoints should be razor sharp out of the box. The USA made Schrade 8OT that I found brand new in a hardware store on vacation, was razor sharp and could shave hair right out of the box. On the way home, I picked up a Queen canoe with honey bone scales from a knife shop, one of my "short term" grail knives ;), and while Queen has gotten better with their edges, they still need a ways to go. The old excuse of "the end user will put his own edge on it" is a cop out.
 
silenthunterstudios said:
The old excuse of "the end user will put his own edge on it" is a cop out.
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I think so to. Many consumers dont know how to do this at all, for the rest of us, a minority by fact its easyer to reprofile a working edge than starting a new one but for a very few ones with exeptionally good equipment. Its easy to thin out a working edge and its also easy to make it have a higher angle if that is whats wanted. I have 5 cases and they were not perfekt but easy to make after my wishes and they could cut until I had the time to spend on the edge. One D2 knife I bought was extremly dull and had also a edgeangle of aprowomatly 60 degrees inalles. Man was I dissapointed, doing that bad jobb mabye it would have been better not touching it at all. Nowadays its a good kutter but the convex edge is a little thicker than perfekt due to the extreamly thick edge it began with.

Manufactors pride in their produkt is the keyword I think.

Bosse
 
You could all solve the problem by not using internet knife suppliers. If you go into a store, pay what the knife is really worth, you can pick your version of the knife and get the edge you want. The knives you reject will go back to the factory and they will know why it's been rejected. Better yet, if you buy from a real knife store and its dull, they will sharpen it for free.

Remember, you get an internet discount and instant internet gratification for a lower price...however there is still an additional cost, since you get pot-luck when it comes to edge and fit/finish. That being said, instead of bellyaching on this forum, send your dull knives back to the factory so they will know what their customers really want.
 
The internet is the only way many of us, especially outside the USA have any chance of buying a knife these days.

As for "bellyaching on this forum" and just sending them back, that cat won't jump either. A forum is the place to discuss knives, their strengths and shortcomings. It's expensive and annoying sending back a product that should never have come out in the first place.
 
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