Membership changes, was New Policy: You sell knifemaker's products, you are a dealer

[Los Angeles]

I guess I have some confusion with the definition of "primary income".

Primary income could be from our parents (if we're 16) or
Primary income = student loans
Primary income = Social Security
Primary income = retirement fund
Primary income = day job/career
Primary income = litigation graphics consultant (that's what I do)

Not primary income: object making and selling.

It seems the only people who understand where the lines exist for this new rule are the mods, the rest of us are still scratching our heads.

 

[Los Angeles]

I just have to add that in the one short month that I've been here, the knifemaker's materials section has really been a godsend. It was only a few days ago that I went from unpaid member to Platinum member as a show of appreciation to the site for making this area available to me.

Only days later, a giant tax shows up that threatens to shut down an area that is important to me.

I wish this new rule had shown up a week ago. It would have made me think before I gave you $50. Thank goodness I didn't give you $120 for the 3-year knifemaker's membership.

 

[STR]

I just have to add that in the one short month that I've been here, the knifemaker's materials section has really been a godsend. It was only a few days ago that I went from unpaid member to Platinum member as a show of appreciation to the site for making this area available to me.

Only days later, a giant tax shows up that threatens to shut down an area that is important to me.

I wish this new rule had shown up a week ago. It would have made me think before I gave you $50. Thank goodness I didn't give you $120 for the 3-year knifemaker's membership.

No one is shutting down the materials section. Its still going to be there just as it was last week, and some makers will still on occasion sell extras and left over end cuts, and/or things they no longer use or got by accident and so on. Whats changed other than informing a few of the individuals of the many that they are technically a dealer and need to pay for a dealer membership?

STR

 

[Kiah]

Couple questions.

If those affected sign up for a dealer membership, will they be required to start their threadsin the dealer forum in The Exchange, or will there be a new dealer section added to the Maker's area?

Does this policy affect sheathmakers in the individual forums of The Exchange? Obviously I can sell to my little hearts content in my forum so it honestly doesn't bother me either way, but I've been known to throw a sheath in The Exchange a couple times a year, and was curious if this was permitted. I'm cool with it, but just wanna be clear as I and others do do it occassionally.

 

[STR]

I would say it would only affect sheath makers if they are selling the raw leather goods to make sheaths Kiah, not the sheaths themselves. Making a sheath and selling it is different than selling the raw materials to other makers to make them.

If you are in the attic of your shop and find a bunch of crap you no longer use that you forgot you had it does not make you a dealer now just because you have some stuff you want to unload anymore than it would mean you are running a business if you have a yard sale to unload some junk. Its not a business until you start having that yard sale every other week or every week end or like that. At least thats how I would see it.

STR

 

[Los Angeles]

No one is shutting down the materials section. Its still going to be there just as it was last week, and some makers will still on occasion sell extras and left over end cuts, and/or things they no longer use or got by accident and so on. Whats changed other than informing a few of the individuals of the many that they are technically a dealer and need to pay for a dealer membership?

STR

Thank you for clarifying.

I'm still uneasy about this. A lot of the threads on there are from knifemakers who found a great resource or created a great new invention and want to share it. like a pile of spring steel or 100 scales worth of burl, or a new jig to hold your blade while grinding.

I find the area to be a location of tremendous generosity, particularly when things are available in bulk (like the G11 thread). I will gladly pay some money to thank them for the time and effort. If they make a little profit, that's great, these folks can have a beer on me for making these hard-to-find goods available to the community.

I think it's one thing if Jantz or Rio Grande or Allcraft or any other metals/knife making supplier shows up peddling wares. It's a completely different thing when someone shows up and says "look what I found in the neighbor's barn, I've got 200 and I only need to keep 10".

Looking through the pages of the supplies subforum, I can only think of a few contributors that this rule should apply to.

In the end, I would hate to "scare off" some of the other posters on that little forum with a giant and unnecessary warning sign that's only intended for two or three people in the first place.

 

[hwpaintballer]

But aren't they selling in the Knife Makers For Sale area? Do they all expect to make a profit? I sell lanyards, am I a dealer? I make virtually no money doing this because I have to keep a good variety of colors in stock. You'd have to buy 50+ lanyards just to cover what I've paid already.

If you don't expect to make a profit why do it and why stock so much of it?

 

[Cougar Allen]

A number of people seem to be confusing "primary source of income" with "primary source of pocket money." A teenager who's earning a few bucks after school, a guy who is living on Social Security and earning a few extra bucks -- and a lot of people who aren't involved themselves but they've made the same misinterpretation on behalf of others....

Maybe some people should read what Spark posted over and over until you understand it, and try to give him a little credit for being a reasonable guy and not some melodrama villain twirling his moustache as he steals the pocket money from kids and pensioners.

 

[STR]

Thank you for clarifying.

I'm still uneasy about this. A lot of the threads on there are from knifemakers who found a great resource or created a great new invention and want to share it. like a pile of spring steel or 100 scales worth of burl, or a new jig to hold your blade while grinding.

I find the area to be a location of tremendous generosity, particularly when things are available in bulk (like the G11 thread). I will gladly pay some money to thank them for the time and effort. If they make a little profit, that's great, these folks can have a beer on me for making these hard-to-find goods available to the community.

I think it's one thing if Jantz or Rio Grande or Allcraft or any other metals/knife making supplier shows up peddling wares. It's a completely different thing when someone shows up and says "look what I found in the neighbor's barn, I've got 200 and I only need to keep 10".

Looking through the pages of the supplies subforum, I can only think of one contributor that this rule should apply to.

In the end, I would hate to "scare off" some of the posters on that little forum.

I understand the concern but look at it this way. We have dealers here that pay for the privilege to sell what they stock here. We have makers including myself that pay for selling theirs and showing their work in their own forum. When someone else that didn't pay comes in and does that same thing it tends to disgruntle folks and rightfully so. I mean after all they pay to do it and others that don't tend to stand out to them. Its no different than a paying member like yourself that sees someone that has not paid coming in and selling knives without a paid membership really. The first thing that happens is someone notices and points it out to them and reports the post.

A warning is issued and if it continues after they are informed of the fact that they need to pay for a membership to sell then infractions or harsher are dished out accordingly.

The rules are in place for a reason. We all try to live by them but like citizens of any community occassionally you do end up screwing up on occasion and its paid for in one of several ways. Even the moderators screw up as we too are only human.

The bottom line is if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck its probably a duck!

STR

 

[Josh K]

If you don't expect to make a profit why do it and why stock so much of it?

If you wanted a lanyard and I said the only colors I had in stock were black and purple, would you want one?

A number of people seem to be confusing "primary source of income" with "primary source of pocket money." A teenager who's earning a few bucks after school, a guy who is living on Social Security and earning a few extra bucks -- and a lot of people who aren't involved themselves but they've made the same misinterpretation on behalf of others....

Maybe some people should read what Spark posted over and over until you understand it, and try to give him a little credit for being a reasonable guy and not some melodrama villain twirling his moustache as he steals the pocket money from kids and pensioners.

I never thought that, which is why I wanted to clarify. If it's not your primary source of income, and that's the only stipulation, then that's okay. I know several people have locked their threads over this.

 

[hwpaintballer]

If you wanted a lanyard and I said the only colors I had in stock were black and purple, would you want one?



I never thought that, which is why I wanted to clarify. If it's not your primary source of income, and that's the only stipulation, then that's okay. I know several people have locked their threads over this.

heck yea, I like black and purple.

 

[Josh K]

heck yea, I like black and purple.

Unfortunately I'm out purple.

 

[go mike]

I never thought that, which is why I wanted to clarify. If it's not your primary source of income, and that's the only stipulation, then that's okay. I know several people have locked their threads over this.

I locked mine, because until I can get a true answer from Spark about my specific situation, then I don't want to get banned.

My primary source of income is my allowance from my parents, the wood that I have for sale helps support my knifemaking hobby to be a little less expensive.

When I started all of the wood stuff, I thought that a dealer was only of manufactured knives, but now it's being defined as anyone who has a job/business selling the materials that is selling on the forum. That's at least what I think I'm understanding now... Feel free to correct me if you think it's different.

 

[fod]

curses,

 

[fod]

foiled again

 

[Los Angeles]

I understand the concern but look at it this way. We have dealers here that pay for the privilege to sell what they stock here. We have makers including myself that pay for selling theirs and showing their work in their own forum. When someone else that didn't pay comes in and does that same thing it tends to disgruntle folks and rightfully so. I mean after all they pay to do it and others that don't tend to stand out to them. Its no different than a paying member like yourself that sees someone that has not paid coming in and selling knives without a paid membership really. The first thing that happens is someone notices and points it out to them and reports the post.

A warning is issued and if it continues after they are informed of the fact that they need to pay for a membership to sell then infractions or harsher are dished out accordingly.

The rules are in place for a reason. We all try to live by them but like citizens of any community occassionally you do end up screwing up on occasion and its paid for in one of several ways. Even the moderators screw up as we too are only human.

The bottom line is if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck its probably a duck!

STR

Once again, thank you for a very reasonable response.

I'm not asking you to change your rules, but at minimum I think you need to change the title of the announcement: "New Policy: You sell knifemaker's products, you are a dealer"

We can all agree that that's a complete distortion of the actual rule as you have described it, right?

Maybe you should change it to "If you are primarily a knife making materials supplier, you will need to purchase a dealer membership to sell here"

Just today, I'm buying a nice little piece of railroad rail from a guy who got a bunch from a guy. They are both looking to make a little money. I'm happy to get a deal on a cheap use-for-any-purpose anvil.

I'm just asking that we don't make opportunities like this more scarce.

In the end, I'm sure I'll get over it. Thanks for taking the time and effort to make this forum a great place to live and learn. :thumbup:

 

[Cougar Allen]

I'm only revisiting this thread to post this video, but while I'm here I'd like to add that I think anybody who's running a business selling knifemaker's supplies should be happy to pay $17 a month for the opportunity to sell on Bladeforums, and if he isn't he's the one twirling his moustache and going Curses! Foiled again!
[youtube]iJGsnbmyk6M[/youtube]

 

[Josh K]

I'm only revisiting this thread to post this video, but while I'm here I'd like to add that I think anybody who's running a business selling knifemaker's supplies should be happy to pay $17 a month for the opportunity to sell on Bladeforums, and if he isn't he's the one twirling his moustache and going Curses! Foiled again!
[youtube]iJGsnbmyk6M[/youtube]

$17 a month would be fine, it's the bulk initial payment I would have a problem with.

 

[Kiah]

$17 a month would be fine, it's the bulk initial payment I would have a problem with.

That's basically what I poked my head in to say. If it was possible to pay $20 a month instead of the lump payment, I think it would be easier for most would be more lucrative for everyone.

 

[Spark]

Look, if you can't stomach $17 a month to be offering products on people, I don't know what to tell you. If it's a bulk payment that's hurting you, I can certainly do a monthly option, but it will cost more.

Those of you making offering custom materials are certainly presenting an interesting double standard. When you are purchasing from your parts suppliers, I don't think you are getting a 12 month payment plan... I know I don't.

The teenagers are doing this for pocket money. As such, I don't expect to see regular threads from them, with a steady stream of new offerings.

If you are operating a business though, you understand that advertising is a cost of doing business, a business expense. Investigate the cost of advertising elsewhere, and tell me it's less money and more effective... the testimonials I get from people with dealer memberships here directly contradict that. If you've come up with a catchy name for your stuff like Leapin' Lanyards or Mornin' Wood or something, guess what? You aren't doing this for pocket change. When you are "stocking" inventory you should know better than to tell me this is just a hobby; you've already decided that it's going to be an income stream and you are selling your labor & materials.

If you guys need an individual forum to promote your items like the Knifemaker's who do a three year membership, by all means I can set that up.

Yes, when you purchase the dealer membership, you'll be able to still sell in the Knifemaker Supplies area. I may set up a separate membership to reflect this.