Membership changes, was New Policy: You sell knifemaker's products, you are a dealer

Discussion in 'Tech Support, General Q&A, Site Feedback & More' started by Spark, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    Does this mean me and u812 will have to shut our threads down? ( I don't do this for profit, yet I do stock inventory)

    Would an alternative option be to choose the three year knifemaker and sell in our own forums?
     
  2. J_Curd

    J_Curd

    Jul 26, 2006
    Income is income.

    And to answer your question directly: any that can.
     
  3. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    When you say nothing, you don't contribute anything. "Income is income." :rolleyes:
     
  4. J_Curd

    J_Curd

    Jul 26, 2006
    So says the guy who thinks that dealers have no labor involved, and knife makers strive to make no profit.

    My point was obvious. Logic is irrefutable.

    Taking the context out of quotes is for the simple.
     
  5. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, Dealers have no labor involved in the actual production of what they are selling.

    Let's not forget, Most knife makers gain little or no profit from their wares. The exception is to the few. I never said they strive to make no profit, or tht dealers had no labor in general. Stop interpreting my posts and start reading them for what they are, not what you think they are or want them to be.

    Your point was bland and your logic was paper thin. Start making sense and this will lead to a proper discussion. Continue on this "It is what it is" word play is a waste of time.
     
  6. J_Curd

    J_Curd

    Jul 26, 2006
    Josh, unless money grows on trees, there is labor involved in stocking inventory. Ask Kevin if he has any labor in carrying inventory he didnt create himself, in his garage.

    What does a dealers source of product have to do with this discussion? If it has no tangible substance, THAT would be paper thin.

    Don't bring illogical comments to the thread, and I won't point them out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  7. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    What part of actual production do you not understand? They don't make what they are selling, that makes them dealers not makers.

    FWIW several dealers (and online stores) have no overhead simply because they organize drop shipments from retailers to their customers. Amazon is a great example of this.

    I don't think "friggen" is a word. :confused:
     
  8. J_Curd

    J_Curd

    Jul 26, 2006
    Actual production, tea in china, tohmaatoe, toemahtoe...

    Good luck winning over your argument with Kevin.:thumbup::p
     
  9. Spark

    Spark HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate Staff Member Administrator Super Mod Moderator

    Oct 2, 1998
    You stock 8 colors of cord. You have 9 or so weave styles listed.

    I want you to look at your website, the pictures & options you present, the verbiage you use, warranty you offer and ask yourself what impression a third party would have looking at it.

    Would they think you are running a business, or that this is a hobby for you? You've expended effort into presenting a superior product, but it is a product not a supply material. You've determined a price for your product based on labor & supplies and other needs; Nothing is free.

    That said, I am not unwilling to listen & inflexible. You are telling me (from what I gather) the initial $200 is tough to do. $25 a month, on the other hand, isn't tough at all.

    This has also made me rethink my policy on other memberships. Gold & Platinum members who operate business have been able to advertise them in their signatures for several years now. I understand the frustration - why should you pay for a Dealer (or, should I create a separate membership level, Accessory, Gear, or Service Provider or whatever it's called) membership if you can advertise your stuff without putting it up for sale in a forum itself?

    I'm going to have to do some thinking on that. If, by necessity, I have to raise prices on Knifemaker memberships to reflect a parity with a (Gear or whatever) membership, so be it. If the (Gear or whatever) membership needs to come down in price, I'm open to that as well, however, I'm going to need some convincing.

    I'm not unreasonable, nor am I seeking to gouge you guys. That said, it's not fair to hose one segment and give passes to the others. Even full bore dealer memberships here are a frigging steal - believe me, I know what magazine advertising costs and what the "going rates" are on popular forums. Compare that to the infinite amount of variety and instant response you get in this medium.

    So work with me by discussing this.
     
  10. Kiah

    Kiah S&S Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 20, 2006
    It is in Kentucky.
     
  11. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    His sandbox, his rules. I don't feel the need to win over any arguments with him.
     
  12. Spark

    Spark HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate Staff Member Administrator Super Mod Moderator

    Oct 2, 1998
    It's not a battle. We're having a reasonable discussion like grown ups.
     
  13. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    I don't believe you're trying to gouge us, I think you're trying to level the playing field. I also believe the $200 is a lot, even when you break it down by month. I pay that much for 3 domains and 2.5 TB of bandwidth. I enjoy making lanyard, just as much as people like making custom composites or wood blocks.

    I think some middle ground would be nice here, as I did have the nagging question of where would I post other stuff for sale? What if I decided to make knife cases, or sharpeners? Backpacks and the like. It's not personal gear, it's stuff I made.

    I think saying "primary source of income" is too loose, and depends heavily on the individual to take it upon themselves. I also think that forcing all gear / supply makers to upgrade is going to promote competition and reporting for people selling stuff at other membership levels. You need something cut and dry, and I'm not sure what that is.
    Gonna sleep on it though.
     
  14. A_Blade_Afficionado

    A_Blade_Afficionado

    Jan 20, 2009
    Think about it Josh, you have a link to your site in your sig, correct?
    Let's say I get a membership (can't justify the cost right now) and put in a link to hypothetically "ABLADEAFFICIONADOSKNIVES.COM" in bold and big lettering, and it just so happens that I sell gear, knives, and supplies. I would be a dealer, except without the green name and cost, case closed. So I don't think it's right to do that. How do you think the small dealers like Kershawguy and 2BKC would feel about being cheated $150 extra dollars for their membership when you do the same yourself (hypothetically)? If you were spending $200 a year, and somebody else spends $50 a year, and you both get equal advertising, you would feel cheated, am I right?

    There is much labor in being a dealer. The businesses don't run themselves, there is tremendous work required to be a dealer. The knives don't buy themselves, they don't maintain their websites, or ship themselves out or collect payments. The dealer has to set up the entire system to operate efficiently. By your definition of a dealer I work for an autoparts dealer. We have over 100 exployess, and are open 10 hours a day during the week, and 6 hours a day on Saturday. All of those exployees must be paid. We have warehouse workers, parts pickers, stockers, disbatch, countermen, AR, HR, salesmen, plus an IT guy, purchaser, managers, and a GM, plus the owner.
    So if dealers have no overhead, why do we have 100 exployees and a handful of stores to service our customers? For being a mere auto parts dealer, we have to put in a lot of work huh? Plus we have fleet vehicle maintainance, insurance, business license fees, and a whole multitude of hurdles.
    Now I know knives and auto parts are a different story, but the concept that dealers have little work or overhead to do is a misconception.
    Apples and oranges, I know, but in a nutcase, selling other peoples products is not easy.

    [/story]If you want advertising, $200 a year is cheap, it would cost you that for a postage stamp size ad in BLADE that is seen less and it harder to contact through than the site.
     
  15. fishface5

    fishface5 Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 3, 2001
    "It's one thing if you've beaten a couple bars of damascus out and are selling them off. It's another entirely if that's part of your primary source of income."

    Wouldn't it make the most sense - and forgive me if this has already been suggested, I didn't read all the posts - but to treat those persons who individually make materials as the same as knifemakers, with the same membership rate - as opposed to those persons who buy and sell items and make a profit on the items without introducing any of their own craftsmanship, who would be considered dealers?
     
  16. Los Angeles

    Los Angeles

    Jul 4, 2009
    I second this interpretation.

    (As much as a newbie can second anything)
     
  17. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    If it just so happens that you have a site that sells gear and knives, you're a dealer. I don't have a site that does that.
     
  18. bearcut

    bearcut

    Sep 3, 2006
    It is obvious to me when I click on your giant blue letter advertisements at the bottom of every post you do, that you are indeed advertising. That makes you a DEALER in my book.

    Just pay the dealer membership fee and quit complaining. $200 bucks is cheap. These guys have cut you a lot more slack than they should have already.

    BTW, how much have you personally spent on knives this year?

    Yeah, thatÂ’s what I thought.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
  19. riffraff

    riffraff

    Apr 13, 2007
    If I go to your paracord site, second tab from the right: "Ordering." How is that not selling gear?
     
  20. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    Spark = how about a different membership level



    "Supplier"

    (with it's own pricing level)



    Neither a dealer nor a knifemaker.

    Not only would this be more true to what they do, but it would make much more sense to me (as a buyer of supplies) to get them from a supplier.


    Dan
     

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