Minimalist camping without a fixed blade

stabman said:
Sounds like they're a bunch of judgemental dicks, from what you say.
If carrying a fixed blade knife will keep me from ever having to hang out with those guys, I'll gladly carry the extra weight. :thumbup:
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As opposed a bunch of judgemental dicks jumping into a thread on minimal camping with no fixed blade to demand that fixed blades are needed?

Or does that particular blade cut in only one direction? Hmmm....
 
pinnah said:
As opposed a bunch of judgemental dicks jumping into a thread on minimal camping with no fixed blade to demand that fixed blades are needed?
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The judgement seems to be entirely coming from one direction; yours.

If you read my first post in this thread, you'll see that I said I have hiked through areas where a fixed blade knife was not needed at all. In fact, a folding knife, saw, or axe wouldn't have been needed either.
Like I said, I kept on hiking till I got somewhere such things are handy, because I like knives.

The people who argue for it being needed at all times are generally speaking from the standpoint of safety equipment; my frind who was in an adventure race had to borrow a knife from me, because it was required safety equipment to have a fixed blade knife, or locking folder. She choose a small locking folder, and did not need it...but she would not have been allowed to race without it (or a fixed blade knife).

But if you want to have a game of "Let's Judge Each Other", how about you list ten of your favourite things...I'm sure I can come up with snarky reasons why you don't need them, and why you might even be less knowledgeable or ridiculous for liking them. ;)
 
To me, it's one thing to have a different opinion. Life is like that. If everyone had the same opinions, it would be a fairly dull life. I know people who backpack solo with an industrial single-edge safely razor blade as their only "knife." I wouldn't do it, but they have 1000's of days and night on trails, and have tents, sleeping bags, and chemical stoves. So . . . .

It's another thing entirely to dismiss differing opinions with the statement that such opinions are explained by a "lack" of "basic knowledge." That "shot across the bow" is almost certain to raise the temperature - and not just here.

Mutual respect is good - especially if you want others to listen. Otherwise, much - if not all - gets lost in the fighting.
 
stabman said:
The people who argue for it being needed at all times are generally speaking from the standpoint of safety equipment; my frind who was in an adventure race had to borrow a knife from me, because it was required safety equipment to have a fixed blade knife, or locking folder. She choose a small locking folder, and did not need it...but she would not have been allowed to race without it (or a fixed blade knife).
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You make my point for me.

Carrying a knife of some sort is on pretty much every version of the "ten essentials" since Harvey Manning and Seattle Mountaineers first wrote about it in the classic, "The Freedom of the Hills".

The requirement to have a locking knife is a bit odd, but whatever. As you note, the race organizers accepted a small folder.

The relatively recent law changes in NH allow NH Fish and Game to charge people for rescue costs if they don't have the right equipment with them, which includes the 10 Essentials, which in turn includes a knife.

I wonder if the OP would be brave enough to jump back into this love-fest and clarify their interest in minimal camping with no fixed blade and perhaps we can discuss the techniques needed to do that safely.

Or we could just keep having this futile discussion about why fixed blades are needed (even though they aren't).

Again... I dig me my fixed blades. But the whole kit is essential.
 
Five pages into a discussion on camping and the personal interplay sounds like politics. This thread does not seem beyond redemption. Please get off the muddy path of personal vituperation. Thank you.
 
pinnah said:
You make my point for me.

Carrying a knife of some sort is on pretty much every version of the "ten essentials" since Harvey Manning and Seattle Mountaineers first wrote about it in the classic, "The Freedom of the Hills".

The requirement to have a locking knife is a bit odd, but whatever. As you note, the race organizers accepted a small folder.

The relatively recent law changes in NH allow NH Fish and Game to charge people for rescue costs if they don't have the right equipment with them, which includes the 10 Essentials, which in turn includes a knife.

I wonder if the OP would be brave enough to jump back into this love-fest and clarify their interest in minimal camping with no fixed blade and perhaps we can discuss the techniques needed to do that safely.

Or we could just keep having this futile discussion about why fixed blades are needed (even though they aren't).

Again... I dig me my fixed blades. But the whole kit is essential.
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Minimalist camping is without most of 'ten essentials' so I guess we best stay away from NH.
 
pinnah said:
You make my point for me.

Carrying a knife of some sort is on pretty much every version of the "ten essentials" since Harvey Manning and Seattle Mountaineers first wrote about it in the classic, "The Freedom of the Hills".
The requirement to have a locking knife is a bit odd, but whatever. As you note, the race organizers accepted a small folder.
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If having a knife is considered an essential, and one wants maximum safety, than a fixed blade will offer that; no lock to fail, or possibility of a slip-joint accidentally failing due to improper use in a moment of panic. :)

As for what minimalist camping is, I guess that's going to depend on what one is comparing it to.
When I went to a cabin with a couple of friends, the amount of stuff one brought was phenomenol.
HUGE piles of stuff.
When that same friend came out winter camping, the amount of blankets, groundsheets, insulating material and blankets he carried out into the woods was quite staggering. He admitted once he got there that such things turned out not to be needed (as we had crafted a nice warm shelter), but he hadn't gone winter camping in decades, and didn't want to freeze to death. :D

So compared to that, bringing a high-quality tent, one sleeping bag, a stove of some sort, dehydrated food and water filter would be minimalist for sure.

However, some other guy would scoff at that, and say that a knife, some food, and a cup to boil water in was minimalist.

And then some other dude would trap a squirrel with a snare made from braided bark, skin it with a flake of sharp stone, and roast it over a fire started by friction...and possibly laugh at all of us (except he's so hard-core he doesn't own a computer :D ).

Me, I like to just add a big knife, some food and water into the same backpack I ride the bus with, and wear the exact same clothes I wear while waiting for the bus.
That's how I like to do it.
Well, a tarp is nice too in case it rains.
 
Thomas Linton said:
To me, it's one thing to have a different opinion. Life is like that. If everyone had the same opinions, it would be a fairly dull life. I know people who backpack solo with an industrial single-edge safely razor blade as their only "knife." I wouldn't do it, but they have 1000's of days and night on trails, and have tents, sleeping bags, and chemical stoves. So . . . .

It's another thing entirely to dismiss differing opinions with the statement that such opinions are explained by a "lack" of "basic knowledge." That "shot across the bow" is almost certain to raise the temperature - and not just here.

Mutual respect is good - especially if you want others to listen. Otherwise, much - if not all - gets lost in the fighting.
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Thomas, point taken.

But I'm not sure how to characterize the techniques of modern mountaineering and backpacking other than as basic. The core to the clothing approaches have been around since the 80s with introduction of pile and polyro and modern outer gear. One can't pick up any of the basic books on the subject like Fletcher or Townsend (<- my favorite) and not be confronted with this.
 
pinnah said:
But I'm not sure how to characterize the techniques of modern mountaineering and backpacking other than as basic. The core to the clothing approaches have been around since the 80s with introduction of pile and polyro and modern outer gear. One can't pick up any of the basic books on the subject like Fletcher or Townsend (<- my favorite) and not be confronted with this.
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Well yeah, if I were gong to climb mountains, I'd have to get into mountaineering gear.
However, there are zero mountains anywhere within many, many hundreds of miles of here, and if it were most seasons on any seriously tall mountain, I'd likely die of a cold-induced malignant hyperthermia reaction no matter what I was wearing.

So maybe it would be best if I carried extra knives and a few axes...it might keep me low enough on the mountain that I would survive. :D
"See you guys when you get back; I'll keep base camp safe and make sure the hot cocoa isn't poisoned."
 
I think the AG Russell Woodswalker should be light enough for any endeavour:

https://agrussell.com/knife/189

I have one in my backpack at all times, and I forget it's even there. :)

When I have emptied the pack to apply permethrin, sometimes I am surprised to see it.
 
stabman said:
If having a knife is considered an essential, and one wants maximum safety, than a fixed blade will offer that; no lock to fail, or possibility of a slip-joint accidentally failing due to improper use in a moment of panic. :)
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This entirely depends on what kind of camping one is talking about and what the threat is.

With respect to the minimalist Aplinist approach to mountaineering that came to the fore in the 70s and 80s and paved the way for Ray Jardine and the Ultra Light crowd, Chouinard famously stated "Speed is safety". He continued arguing that if you carry bivy the gear, the weight will slow you down so much you'll be forced to bivy. It's about goals. If the goals of the minimalist camper is to rack up miles, weight is the enemy.

As for the destructive harvest based approach you describe, as we've discussed before and as we'll need to agree to disagree on, they are generally forbidden on many/most public lands in both the US and Canada.
 
pinnah said:
Which fact/opinion? That a fixed blade isn't required for safe backcountry travel?

Asserting that a fixed blade is needed for safe backcountry travel would get you laughed out of any backpacking, climbing, backcountry skiing, mountaineering oriented forum I've ever been on. I'm surprised a bit that people find that so upsetting and am frankly a bit unsure what to attribute it to.

But really, thousands and thousands of people travel in the backcountry safely without a fixed blade.
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You have repeatedly declared that fixed blades are not needed to go camping in the backcountry, and when anybody else has said that they are a great addition to your kit and are more useful out in the woods than any other single type of knife (which they are), you have just repeated your prior statement with an added dig about being laughed at by any number of groups of outdoorsmen.

No single piece of gear is needed out in the woods, every single piece of gear is optional depending on your camping style and preferences. You keep repeating something that nobody is trying to refute, while not actually reading what people are saying.

Fixed blade knives out in the woods are similar to seat belts in cars, there are plenty of drivers out there that either do not have or do not wear seat belts because they are uncomfortable, but damn if they aren't very useful to keeping you alive in freak accidents. Fixed blades are not necessary to go out camping, but when an emergency hits I'd much rather have one with me and suffer through the hardship of carrying an extra 10oz than be without one when I have an emergency where one would be useful.
 
pinnah said:
If the goals of the minimalist camper is to rack up miles, weight is the enemy.

As for the destructive harvest based approach you describe, as we've discussed before and as we'll need to agree to disagree on, they are generally forbidden on many/most public lands in both the US and Canada.
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Well yeah, if you want to rack up miles as a goal, then light is the way to go.
Probably best if you have a body with a back that doesn't enjoy spasming at inopportune times too though. :D

Found out earlier this year that the place we camp almost all the time seems to actually be one of the few patches of land down here that fires and wood harvesting isn't an issue. The land use status is supposed to change at some point in the future though, and when that happens, I'll have to go elsewhere.
I'll still be able to head over to Peche Island for day trips with fires in established fire pits, but not in winter, and camping overnight isn't allowed on the island. :(

So at that time, the search for lands where I can enjoy the outdoors the way I like will commence yet again. :thumbup:
 
A fixed blade could be useful in any multitude of unexpected scenarios. Without much consideration, some instances where a fixed blade would be superior to a folder in a backcountry situation are:

- A badly injured hand where dexterity to manipulate a folding tool might be hindered. Why then need a knife? Imagine any reason and it has occurred in human history and will likely repeat.
- A sudden hypothermic cold condition where dexterity is failing.
- The need to cut oneself free in an emergency with limited range of motion.
- Lacerated fingers.
- Last ditch defense against animal attack.

Basically, read: UNEXPECTED EMERGENCY.

Forget minimalist camping, I won't even cross the Sierras/western Deserts without a good fixed blade in my vehicle. Especially in winter.

A fixed blade strikes me as a very basic tool to keep on hand where other tools and/or resources could become limited.
 
KingMC said:
You have repeatedly declared that fixed blades are not needed to go camping in the backcountry, and when anybody else has said that they are a great addition to your kit and are more useful out in the woods than any other single type of knife (which they are), you have just repeated your prior statement with an added dig about being laughed at by any number of groups of outdoorsmen.

No single piece of gear is needed out in the woods, every single piece of gear is optional depending on your camping style and preferences. You keep repeating something that nobody is trying to refute, while not actually reading what people are saying.

Fixed blade knives out in the woods are similar to seat belts in cars, there are plenty of drivers out there that either do not have or do not wear seat belts because they are uncomfortable, but damn if they aren't very useful to keeping you alive in freak accidents. Fixed blades are not necessary to go out camping, but when an emergency hits I'd much rather have one with me and suffer through the hardship of carrying an extra 10oz than be without one when I have an emergency where one would be useful.
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Matthew, we have a basic and probably irreconcilable difference of opinion on this but let me try.

Three issues here...

First... Is it possible to deal with those emergencies you reference without resorting to making shelter or building a fire? The answer is yes, as has been shown for decades now through the adoption of low-impact techniques.

Second... Are knives optional or required? I think so. I've found the core of the 10 essentials to be essential.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials

Three... are fixed blades useful? If I'm planning on making fires regularly (and the land can support that and it's legal), then sure, I pack one. But on many trips.. the majority of trips... the weight of a fixed blade is a threat to safety, not an aid, particularly when I'm pushing hard to cover miles and gain altitude. Ounce add up to pounds. I weigh my gear on scales. I cut my clothing and shelter to bear minimum on such trips. A 2 oz knife is better than a 4 oz knife in this context.
 
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Your lack of understanding what others are saying has led you to repeat yourself yet again, and I'm not sure what else to say since it doesn't seem like you want to listen to anybody but yourself.
 
From reading this thread, this minimalist camping seems like an awful hobby to me, I for one will not participate in any outdoors activity that doesn't include a multitude of knives & other sharp implements!

Camping is, and should be, a great excuse for bringing extra knives with you in my opinion, speaking as a knife knut here.


1234,,,:D
 
The question of "why is a fixed blade needed" can be reversed as well....

Why would I carry a folder, when a small, sturdy fixed blade will do just the same task, and possibly be more useful?

An ESEE Izula, or similar, small fixed blade, doesn't weigh any more than most folders, has no chance of a pivot breaking, and can be abused infinitely more - without failure - if need be. It can be quicker to deploy (especially wearing gloves) than a folder, and can be trusted more to pry, hack, chop, etc, as it's all a single piece of steel.

Say the words 'fixed blade', and everyone assumes you're out there camping/hiking with an 8" bladed survival weapon. But in all reality, it's just as common for many of us to be carrying a small neck-knife or skinner or such, that is comparable in size and weight to a folder. Can we slide it in our pockets? No. But we also don't need to reach in a pocket and search for it when needed, either. There are pros and cons to both.

I don't have a dog in this fight, as my idea of minimalist camping involves a Dodge truck, and a 20' trailer. But I do do a lot of full day hikes (8+ hours) through the rugged terrain of the PA and WV mountains, so I understand the weight issue. A fixed blade is no better, and no worse, than a folder. It's all just personal preference. I usually have both, plus a multi-tool, but that's my choice. If I could only have one, it'd be a fixed blade, because that what I prefer. Choose which you prefer, and learn to make the best of it.
 
pinnah said:
Matthew, we have a basic and probably irreconcilable difference of opinion on this but let me try.

Three issues here...

First... Is it possible to deal with those emergencies you reference without resorting to making shelter or building a fire? The answer is yes, as has been shown for decades now through the adoption of low-impact techniques.

Second... Are knives optional or required? I think so. I've found the core of the 10 essentials to be essential.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials

Three... are fixed blades useful? If I'm planning on making fires regularly (and the land can support that and it's legal), then sure, I pack one. But on many trips.. the majority of trips... the weight of a fixed blade is a threat to safety, not an aid, particularly when I'm pushing hard to cover miles and gain altitude. Ounce add up to pounds. I weigh my gear on scales. I cut my clothing and shelter to bear minimum on such trips. A 2 oz knife is better than a 4 oz knife in this context.
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What does weight have to do with fixed or folder? I find there are almost invariably fixed options that are as light as, or even lighter than, most folders. I tend to carry folders for the sake of convenience, but if I was counting every ounce and wasn't particularly concerned about social mores (as I'm not when backpacking) a lightweight fixed blade would be my preference every time.
 
Pinnah if you like ultra light and you like knives (why else would you de here) look at titanium knives
I have a mission knives mps and it weighs nothing and performs likeca big knife
 
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