Minimalist camping without a fixed blade

Yes to the handgun. People don't need to know you have one with you at all. It also does not have to be a large enough caliber to take down a charging grizzly with one shot. There is a thread over on THR about a guy named Orr who suffered two grizzly attacks on the same day. Talk about luck. he did not want to shoot the bear. He had pepper spray with him, two cans actually which is amazing. But that didn't turn the bear.
 
For me, a SAK Huntsman or Farmer is pretty much all I need when I go into the woods. It covers 99% of what I do. In my unpopular opinion, it does almost anything better than a Mora or other small fixed blade. YMMV.

But I also have to agree with Jackknife and others that the fixed blade that I carry will be on the larger side. I wouldn't consider going in to the woods without a fixed blade, I never plan for everything going as planned. IMO, a gun is also a necessity based on several unpleasant experiences in the back country over the years.

I can saw wood with my SAK quite easily, but if something bad happens, I want to be able to chop it in a couple of whacks. I've been caught unprepared, and have also vowed "never again". I'm closing in on 60, and have always promised myself that if carrying what I consider necessary is too much of a chore, then I'll stop going into the woods. That's why I still lift heavy weights and do a ton of conditioning. I still climb the 14'ers here in Colorado with a full pack. I've met tons of people that were unprepared and I've always stopped and helped them, but I never lend equipment to them. If they get my help they also get a lecture on being prepared.

YMMV.
 
Until recently, yes. Been backpacking since 1976 or so. Smaller folders work for me. It's a decision informed by what my Scout Masters taught me, my experience, and reading the Collin Fletcher books. Recently, I started carrying some of my fixed blades. Whatever my backpacking knife, it needs to fit my own philosophy and experience of wilderness exploration. About 2.5 oz. gets me all the knife I need, and it could be even lighter, with a blade length as short as 2". The less weight I can get by with, the happier my feet are. Most often, I carry the Buck Vantage Small, blade length of 2.5", weight of 2.6 oz.
 
I have one big issue with the big knife brigade. A Silky Saw and smaller blade is far more efficient than any large knife for the same weight. Non of the big blades chop well enough to better a saw, especially for shelter building and firewood collection. First Aid then a small knife does it.

My thought is if you want to chop something then it starts with a Small Forest Axe. If I know I've got to clear ground then its a Skrama or Machete. But all these are specialised tools and taken knowing they have a job to be done. First to be left at home if not absolutely necessary.
A SAK wood saw can do camp poles faster than most knives.

I have a few medium sized utility/combat knives which I like but non weigh over a pound. In truth my new pet hate are the BK9 class of blade. I truly can't think what use they are when a couple of more specialised tools, for the same weight, are better in every way. Heck, all the stumpy, thick stock, blades that aren't great cutters I can also discount as pretty useless.
Have a knife that cuts and and chopper that chops... and take a saw anyway.
 
GREENJACKET said:
I have one big issue with the big knife brigade. A Silky Saw and smaller blade is far more efficient than any large knife for the same weight. Non of the big blades chop well enough to better a saw, especially for shelter building and firewood collection. First Aid then a small knife does it.

My thought is if you want to chop something then it starts with a Small Forest Axe. If I know I've got to clear ground then its a Skrama or Machete. But all these are specialised tools and taken knowing they have a job to be done. First to be left at home if not absolutely necessary.
A SAK wood saw can do camp poles faster than most knives.

I have a few medium sized utility/combat knives which I like but non weigh over a pound. In truth my new pet hate are the BK9 class of blade. I truly can't think what use they are when a couple of more specialised tools, for the same weight, are better in every way. Heck, all the stumpy, thick stock, blades that aren't great cutters I can also discount as pretty useless.
Have a knife that cuts and and chopper that chops... and take a saw anyway.
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A person who won't take a lite fixed blade because of weight and can't bring a folder over 2oz isn't going to take an axe or a saw either.

Me personally? I take a fixed blade where ever I go that it is legal. I can hump that weight....
 
Heya Carl,

Regarding my buddy who went down with the double spiral fracture, he would tell you that a knife of no kind would have helped him. He reported nearly passing out with pain with every movement. He had a "keep you alive" down parka and sat phone (among other things) and was unable to get his pack off, much less get anything out. He was struggling with the pack when, by chance, another skier came along and was able to get him comfortable before going for help. This happened about 5 miles from the trail head on a forest service road so a skidoo rescue happened fairy quickly saving his life, no doubt. No splint in the world would have made him ambulatory.

He and I still stay in touch every once in a great while (New England oriented hiking forum) and I struggle with taking away lessons learned that would have helped. My take-aways...
1) Solo backcountry travel is a good way to die and 3 is the magic number for safer travel (1 injured, 1 to aid, 1 to get help).
2) There are events that will leave a hiker/climber/skier non-ambulatory and requiring evacuation. Gear selection should be to keep a down hiker alive, even on a day hike.


Regarding your story about the broken ankle, I had a similar experience in high school and have reached a different conclusion. Mine involved a winter church retreat, a 3-hour tour hike in a state park and somebody sliding down a snowy bank and breaking her ankle. I used my Buck 110 to bend cut and delimb 2 saplings to create a litter out of jackets (ran the saplings through inverted sleeves). She was sliding into hypothermic shock by time we got her out.

When I compare a stout folder like the 110 (brick), Opinel #10 (feather light) and a 4" fixed blade like the Mora Companion, the only functional difference I can see is the latter will stand up to repeated (sane) batonning.

One reason I pick the Opinel 10 over other folders is that the Opinel 10 can be pushed into batonning in an emergency situation. Not something I'd do repeatedly but I've done it enough to trust it. The trick is to keep the lock ring dis-engaged and to go slow.

I carry the Companion (or bigger Schrade) when I'm planning on making fires or relying on my Emberlit.
 
jackknife said:
I think the so called "need" thing gets too much attention. In a 50 year plus expericed of backpacking, and hiking in may places under many kind of weather conditions, I never "needed" a large fixed blade but one time. That was enough to teach me about "needs" changing in a heartbeat. You have to think about not needs, but instead what 'may' happen. Maybe nothing, maybe a life threatening injury, change of unpredicted weather.

<snip>

Once you walk out of shouting distance form a road, all bets are off. It ain't like walking in the park and all you have to do is yell for help and someone calls the police. Off in the woods, the only thing you can count on is you. That fancy cell phone isn't worth a tinkers damm if you fall in a creek and need a fire like right now because its freezing cold and you're soaked. For one thing, the cell phone won;t work after getting wet. The other, it ain't gonna get you any dry kindling to start a fire. Kinda hard to baton with the little bade of a squirt or SAK.

If you need to save that much weight, save on areas where it doesn't matter. Dried food, light pile clothing, AAA mini flashinght instead of some maglight. But…if the do-do hits the fan, that 10 ounces of weight a small machete was that you left at home now could be a life saver. You can get a 9 to 10 inch bladed knife that is as light as most 5 to 6 inch blade knives. Thinner blade stock like a machete, no guards of brass or nickel silver, synthetic handle scales, all cut weight. But you'll still have a viable tool if you really need it for that once in a lifetime bad experience. There's no need to let a bad experience become the last experience you have.

The devout backpacking crowd is made of a lot of idealistic people who somehow think the world is Mister Rogers Neighborhood, or Pee Wee's playhouse. Most of them have been lucky. I hope for their sakes their luck continues. But not planning for unexpended events, natural or manmade, is just plain foolish. This is a subject that is near and dear to me. Too many people don't think ahead. Especially the hippy backpacking crowd. I hat to use a general stereotype, but when the shoe fits…

When you venture out into nature, it ain't the local shopping mall. You best be prepared for what may come down the trail. It's like being armed. People in that crowd scoff at carry a gun also. Yet how many backpacker and hikers have been victimized while off in the woods? Think the Blood Mountain murders. Gary Hilton also killed a few elderly people he fund hiking, and once he had their pin numbers off the ATM cards, beat them to death. Yeah, Mr. Rogers wasn't around. And he wasn't the only one. Google murders on the Appellation Trail. There's been several. Stuff happens.

A sturdy fixed blade and a small concealed pistol are two things that I think it's very foolish to go off road without. Break a leg and you'll wish for the chopper. Run into a woods wacko and you'll wish for the pistol. The ten essentials are in my opinion of a lifetime of experience, should be the 11 essentials.
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The small machete concept is one that I really like. It is a large knife however you want to spin it. They are inexpensive generally and strong. If you had to, you could chop up a 6-8" tree to save your life or keep you from having to stay in the woods for days until somebody figures out that you didn't come home like you normally do that evening.

We live in a world where there are a lot of people who don't seem to care about or value human life. They might shoot you for $20. It is a fact and I don't like it. It makes little sense to me other than doing something out of desperation. Hence the handgun's usefulness as another tool that is there for your safety when you are alone in the woods away from people. Killing animals to eat with the handgun.... well, if I had to I could go for a week without food. Wouldn't like it, but water is necessary. The handgun is there for emergencies whether it be a bear you feel you hope you can scare away because it is just too damn curious and following you or a two legged predator.

The fixed blade is not a "need" in most cases, but I feel a lot better having one with me.
 
jackknife said:
I think the so called "need" thing gets too much attention. In a 50 year plus expericed of backpacking, and hiking in may places under many kind of weather conditions, I never "needed" a large fixed blade but one time. That was enough to teach me about "needs" changing in a heartbeat. You have to think about not needs, but instead what 'may' happen. Maybe nothing, maybe a life threatening injury, change of unpredicted weather.

I like ultra light as much as the next old fart who can't lug what I used to lug. Under perfect conditions, Imay not need anything but a Victorinox classic and my bag of snacks for the afternoon. Fixed blade? Not likey. But…like you say, it's wise take minimal precautions. A small first aid kit, some water, an extra sweater and rain pancho in the day pack. And for me, a blade big enough to construct an emergent shelter or a crutch.

Once you walk out of shouting distance form a road, all bets are off. It ain't like walking in the park and all you have to do is yell for help and someone calls the police. Off in the woods, the only thing you can count on is you. That fancy cell phone isn't worth a tinkers damm if you fall in a creek and need a fire like right now because its freezing cold and you're soaked. For one thing, the cell phone won;t work after getting wet. The other, it ain't gonna get you any dry kindling to start a fire. Kinda hard to baton with the little bade of a squirt or SAK.

If you need to save that much weight, save on areas where it doesn't matter. Dried food, light pile clothing, AAA mini flashinght instead of some maglight. But…if the do-do hits the fan, that 10 ounces of weight a small machete was that you left at home now could be a life saver. You can get a 9 to 10 inch bladed knife that is as light as most 5 to 6 inch blade knives. Thinner blade stock like a machete, no guards of brass or nickel silver, synthetic handle scales, all cut weight. But you'll still have a viable tool if you really need it for that once in a lifetime bad experience. There's no need to let a bad experience become the last experience you have.

The devout backpacking crowd is made of a lot of idealistic people who somehow think the world is Mister Rogers Nieghborhood, or Pee Wee's playhouse. Most of them have been lucky. I hope for their sakes their luck continues. But not planning for unexpended events, natural or manmade, is just plain foolish. This is a subject that is near and dear to me. Too many people don't think ahead. Especially the hippy backpacking crowd. I hat to use a general stereotype, but when the shoe fits…

When you venture out into nature, it ain't the local shopping mall. You best be prepared for what may come down the trail. It's like being armed. People in that crowd scoff at carry a gun also. Yet how many backpacker and hikers have been victimized while off in the woods? Think the Blood Mountain murders. Gary Hilton also killed a few elderly people he fund hiking, and once he had their pin numbers off the ATM cards, beat them to death. Yeah, Mr. Rogers wasn't around. And he wasn't the only one. Google murders on the Appellation Trail. There's been several. Stuff happens.

A sturdy fixed blade and a small concealed pistol are two things that I think it's very foolish to go off road without. Break a leg and you'll wish for the chopper. Run into a woods wacko and you'll wish for the pistol. The ten essentials are in my opinion of a lifetime of experience, should be the 11 essentials.
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I like this post a lot.

I'm not much of an outdoorsman, but these are things I've pondered on if I decided to go into the wilderness, even a little into it. I used to peruse books on hiking, and some books recommended nothing more than the Victorinox Classic as a hiking/outdoor knife. I never quite understood that. One author even stated that he was considering 'breaking off' the Classic's file/screwdriver blade because it was 'too much'. I've always considered the possibility of unforeseen circumstances out in the wilds.

I recently read about a woman who was hiking the (entire?) Pacific Crest Trail with a Vic Classic as her only knife. I suppose it's served her purposes, but again, I personally do not agree with this super-duper minimalist mindset. Because everything must go absolutely, 100% perfectly. And maybe everything will turn out perfectly. But there are times when 'perfect' doesn't happen, and if it doesn't and you're a super-minimalist, you're probably screwed.

Although I know how to shoot, I don't own a handgun (yet), but if I were planning on going out in the wilderness any distance at all, I would consider getting one. An easy to conceal/carry one, that is. Being prepared for unexpected possibilities doesn't necessarily mean you have to be weighed down.

Jim
 
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The handgun thing is sort of like the fixed blade "need". You need it when you need it. I often do not carry a handgun, even a tiny one, because I am just putting around within a mile of the highway or a major trail. But I know that stuff can happen even there. I should have one with me, period, even a 22 rimfire is better than nothing should thing turn against you. For me, that's what the fixed blade if for.... not so much for me to use to cut often, but it is there if I need it because things didn't go the way they normally go and something happened. And I don't mean using it for fighting, just woods craft uses.
 
stabman said:
But if you want to have a game of "Let's Judge Each Other", how about you list ten of your favourite things...I'm sure I can come up with snarky reasons why you don't need them, and why you might even be less knowledgeable or ridiculous for liking them. ;)
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Sure.

As a hiker/backpacker/skier, I see a knife as one part of a larger system. The system as a whole provides the safety, not just the knife on it's own.

Here's a list of essentials, without any listing of clothing, shelter, cooking or sleep system, which all are a part of the overall safety system.

I would invite critique and would invite others to post their approach to "minimalist camping without a fixed blade".

I have 3 organizing pouches that go on any trip in the woods, including day hikes, hunting and backpacking trips. I've tried, as much as possible to keep this kit to be the same regardless of season but not entirely. Some items are seasonal.

Here's my first aid kit.

1st Aid Kit by Pinnah, on Flickr

Contents:
+ toilet paper
+ moleskin and nail clippers
+ 1st aid cheat sheet, notebook and pen
+ wound kit
+ SAM splint
+ Imodium/antihistamine/rehydration salts/Lyme antibiotic

Here's my Emergency Kit. The brick. The Emberlit and saw only get carried on winter XC trips or on luxury camping trips where we plan on having a fire.
Emergency Kit by Pinnah, on Flickr

+ head lamp
+ tack cloth, spare lighter
+ compass
+ DMT sharpening stone
+ lighter fluid
+ spare PowerBar
+ cell phone & money clip
+ headnet (optional)
+ Emberlit stove (optional)
+ folding saw (optional)
+ Repair kit
- AAA batteries
- spare Svea fuel cap
- spare hip belt buckles
- duct tape
- heavy thread and straight needle
- fabric repair tape and curved upholstery needle



And here's my fanny pack, which I wear at the 12 o'clock position below my primary hip belt's buckle. Note the Squirt. Note also that the Mora Companion and Opinel 10 are roughly the same size. The knives are usually moved to a pack pocket and aren't carried in the fanny pack.

Fanny Pack by Pinnah, on Flickr
+ map
+ lighter
+ whistle
+ mini-tool
+ necklace light
+ sun screen
+ bug dope
+ ibuprofen
+ iodine
+ hand sanitizer
+ camera (optional)
+ knife
- Opinel #10 [2 oz]
- Mora [5 oz]
 
James Y said:
I like this post a lot.

I'm not much of an outdoorsman, but these are things I've pondered on if I decided to go into the wilderness, even a little into it. I used to peruse books on hiking, and some books recommended nothing more than the Victorinox Classic as a hiking/outdoor knife. I never quite understood that. One author even stated that he was considering 'breaking off' the Classic's file/screwdriver blade because it was 'too much'. I've always considered the possibility of unforeseen circumstances out in the wilds.

I recently read about a woman who was hiking the (entire?) Pacific Crest Trail with a Vic Classic as her only knife. I suppose it's served her purposes, but again, I personally do not agree with this super-duper minimalist mindset. Because everything must go absolutely, 100% perfectly. And maybe everything will turn out perfectly. But there are times when 'perfect' doesn't happen, and if it doesn't and you're a super-minimalist, you're probably screwed.

Although I know how to shoot, I don't own a handgun (yet), but if I were planning on going out in the wilderness any distance at all, I would consider getting one. An easy to conceal/carry one, that is. Being prepared for unexpected possibilities doesn't necessarily mean you have to be weighed down.

Jim
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Jim, it sounds like you and I have perused the same books.

I don't know why, but it seems like the whole sport of backpacking took off in the 1960's and 70's when there was a strong "hippy" element involved. A kind of peace movement in the woods thing. It was during that time somethings fell out of favor, and common sense seems to be one them. I remember that comment about breaking off the nail file blade, and it was in a Colin Fletcher book. Nonsense.

If, and that's a big "IF" everything goes well, you may need ev er really need a large knife or a pistol. But…also a big "BUT" things do go wrong now and then. I read where some backpacking self styled experts say you don't need to have any wood processing tools, because your super duper stove will heat any food you need. Fine. But…there's that word, what happens when some little piece of metal gets fatigued and breaks, or some gasket gives out, and for some reason the stove fails to work? Now all of a sudden, you need to get a fire going or freeze. Oh wait, it's gonna be kind of hard to split some firewood with a SAK classic, or even a tinker. Especially if it's unexpectedly rained or had an unseasonal snow. Wet wood don't take a flame too well.

Now I admit I love the small to even tiny knives. But…that three letter word again, that's my choice for the most urban/suburban life I live. Even after moving here to Texas, I rarely carry any more knife than a peanut sized pocket knife. Going t the stores, running errands around town, whatever, it's all I need. But…Yeah that word again, if I and the wifey go hiking off in the woods, my daypack is with me, and aside from water and small first aid kit is my little machete. I'm out of shouting distance from the road, I don't really know what will happen until we get home again, so I want a real cutter on hand. This is country side thick with cedar and mesquite thickets, cactus and heavy brush. A machete is actually more needed here than back home in Maryland. Sometimes the trail is a little overgrown.

A good example of other natural dangers is the local wildlife. In addition to rattle snakes, coyotes that have been known to be rabid, mountain lions, are the wild hogs. The Texas hill country is full of them, and most of the time they run off. But sometimes they get a little territorial, especially if they have a nice oak tree that has dropped a lot acorns for a all you can eat hog experience. A few people have been chased up a tree, and a few actually injured by a hog. I like having my Glock on my hip, which is legal here in the Lone Star state.

Not having a crystal ball, we humans don't know what is going to happen at any one time. But…leave it to mother nature to bring up a harsh lesson in just how fragile we humans are when off away from our civilized surroundings. Purposefully setting out in nature with just a Vic classic or other small knife as your stand alone cutlery, is plain foolish.
 
jackknife said:
I don't know why, but it seems like the whole sport of backpacking took off in the 1960's and 70's when there was a strong "hippy" element involved. A kind of peace movement in the woods thing. It was during that time somethings fell out of favor, and common sense seems to be one them. I remember that comment about breaking off the nail file blade, and it was in a Colin Fletcher book. Nonsense.

If, and that's a big "IF" everything goes well, you may need ev er really need a large knife or a pistol. But…also a big "BUT" things do go wrong now and then. I read where some backpacking self styled experts say you don't need to have any wood processing tools, because your super duper stove will heat any food you need. Fine. But…there's that word, what happens when some little piece of metal gets fatigued and breaks, or some gasket gives out, and for some reason the stove fails to work? Now all of a sudden, you need to get a fire going or freeze. Oh wait, it's gonna be kind of hard to split some firewood with a SAK classic, or even a tinker. Especially if it's unexpectedly rained or had an unseasonal snow. Wet wood don't take a flame too well.

Now I admit I love the small to even tiny knives. But…that three letter word again, that's my choice for the most urban/suburban life I live. Even after moving here to Texas, I rarely carry any more knife than a peanut sized pocket knife. Going t the stores, running errands around town, whatever, it's all I need. But…Yeah that word again, if I and the wifey go hiking off in the woods, my daypack is with me, and aside from water and small first aid kit is my little machete. I'm out of shouting distance from the road, I don't really know what will happen until we get home again, so I want a real cutter on hand. This is country side thick with cedar and mesquite thickets, cactus and heavy brush. A machete is actually more needed here than back home in Maryland. Sometimes the trail is a little overgrown.

A good example of other natural dangers is the local wildlife. In addition to rattle snakes, coyotes that have been known to be rabid, mountain lions, are the wild hogs. The Texas hill country is full of them, and most of the time they run off. But sometimes they get a little territorial, especially if they have a nice oak tree that has dropped a lot acorns for a all you can eat hog experience. A few people have been chased up a tree, and a few actually injured by a hog. I like having my Glock on my hip, which is legal here in the Lone Star state.

Not having a crystal ball, we humans don't know what is going to happen at any one time. But…leave it to mother nature to bring up a harsh lesson in just how fragile we humans are when off away from our civilized surroundings. Purposefully setting out in nature with just a Vic classic or other small knife as your stand alone cutlery, is plain foolish.
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I have spent a lot of time in the Texas Hill Country and South Texas and the area South of you a bit. Enjoy those areas a lot.

I tend to agree with your "hippy" comment and hiking. The Greens Peace and Sierra Club movements were very active. I very much support the Nature Conservancy. They do a lot of great things that are not political. The 70's was all about the Buck 110 (or the equivalent). I equate the two almost inseparably. That makes me smile.

Around town, it is mostly a SAK for me or an additional AO type knife. The AO knife is there because I like them, not because I need them. In the woods, the SAK stays and a fixed blade gets added to the tool set. If hiking any distance, the folding Silky gets added along with the first aid kit and poncho/rain gear. I seldom need a compass, but I like to have one available like the fixed blade. There is one place I go to frequently that actual North just seems wrong to me instinctively and I am basically mentally always off 180 degrees. In a pinch, that could make quite a difference in my survival.

Never have been a Mora guy. They just feel too much like the Vic kitchen utility knives I use all the time. A more substantial fixed blade is usually what I choose for the woods. Pinnah, I almost bought an Opinel in the last couple of weeks.... looked at all the sizes and I just couldn't bring myself to buy one. I am now a big supporter of the Leatherman Squirt because of you. I don't care much for the BK-9 sized knives, but I do like short machetes which tend to be larger. I don't carry them often unless I have a good suspicion that I will need something that big. What I choose for a given day in the woods depends on my activities. I have my favorites, but I vary the choices from time to time. I am not a minimalist kind of hiker. I like some cutting redundancy.
 
How about we quit calling backpackers idealistic hippies? It's a bs generalization.

Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk
 
Of course it is. :D There was an awful lot of idealism going around in those days. Many went to college to improve the human condition and not for personal gain like is often the case now. I remember one of my brothers essentially stalling the construction of an interstate highway all because some creek got muddy when it rained. Those were the days.....
 
I think it also matters where you are. Where I would be hiking there is very little wildlife at all, very little vegetation (desert) and where there is, batoning is not necessary, the branches are thin and usually very very dry. The question here is why you would pack a fixie rather than why not. I think there is a also a huge difference between 'minimalist camping' in friendly woods with company or heading off into the real back country alone.

If I can make a blanket statement, blanket statements are silly. Certainly with this question. I think the question needs to be weighed relative to the camping in question and that will usually change. Any bluster for or against on 'principle' deserves little respect.
 
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