Most over-rated production knife brand?

craytab said:
Maybe. It is a long thread. Hard to tell. I'll leave this here just in case:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/453852-Mick-Strider-has-some-explaining-to-do
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I am a vet, and the whole stolen valor thing is offensive to me (and I have read all of both sides of the argument). I know it's no big deal to some people, but to me it's enough to make me not want to support Strider in any way. It's too bad because I think Strider makes some extremely cool knives.

That being said, I own a customized SNG, and I think It's one of the coolest looking knives in my collection, but I bought it used because I didn't want to put money in Mick Strider's pocket.
 
I won't own anything strider aka mickey mouse burger.

If they were free on the sidewalk I'd spit on them before kicking them in a sewer drain. Mick burger is a proven lying scum. I am a vet and take his pretending to be something he's not serious.

The guys who actually do what he lies about risk life and limb and sometimes pay the ultimate price.


He rides their coat tails for cash, freaking dirt bag.


I spent time around soldiers with serious injuries at very young ages, that's why I find mick burger repulsive. Dude never deployed anywhere but I did. And many other people did and he's getting rich on lies. A special place in hell is reserved for him...
 
CFK knives; made in Pakistan generic blades pushed on ebay as handmade customs from the UK.

They should just embrace what they are and sell for the same price as other product from there.
 
shinyedges said:
I won't own anything strider aka mickey mouse burger.

If they were free on the sidewalk I'd spit on them before kicking them in a sewer drain. Mick burger is a proven lying scum. I am a vet and take his pretending to be something he's not serious.

The guys who actually do what he lies about risk life and limb and sometimes pay the ultimate price.


He rides their coat tails for cash, freaking dirt bag.


I spent time around soldiers with serious injuries at very young ages, that's why I find mick burger repulsive. Dude never deployed anywhere but I did. And many other people did and he's getting rich on lies. A special place in hell is reserved for him...
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Wow that guys a douche. Never served or been in the service I have a massive amount of respect for anyone who has and to make false claims just to get the "tacticool" factor on your blades is awful.. Never really liked the look of those knives anyhow, but even if I did it wouldn't matter, after finding that out I wouldnt spend one red cent on a strider knife.
 
There's a ton of info on this liar, here on bladeforums. Some folks don't like people bringing up the truth about him but I do it anyway lol just maybe someone who didn't know about that dirtbag will take their business else where.
Dr101692 said:
Wow that guys a douche. Never served or been in the service I have a massive amount of respect for anyone who has and to make false claims just to get the "tacticool" factor on your blades is awful.. Never really liked the look of those knives anyhow, but even if I did it wouldn't matter, after finding that out I wouldnt spend one red cent on a strider knife.
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I won't call out specific companies, but I do find the British market for $500 paring knives touted as "bushcrafters" pretty hilarious.
 
lobo9er said:
RANDALL STAINLESS 440 series steel knives. Boom.
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What?

I thought Randall was so well rated because the knives are beautiful and well made?

I mean surely everyone knows they're paying for brand and looks, right?


I think people thinking Randalls are 10/10 knives further proves that almost any decent steel works wonders for a user knife and that supersteels are a bit snobbish, myself being guilty of that too.
 
DPC said:
What?

I thought Randall was so well rated because the knives are beautiful and well made?

I mean surely everyone knows they're paying for brand and looks, right?


I think people thinking Randalls are 10/10 knives further proves that almost any decent steel works wonders for a user knife and that supersteels are a bit snobbish, myself being guilty of that too.
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.... No need for me to re hash my opinions on Randall...
 
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DPC said:
I think people thinking Randalls are 10/10 knives further proves that almost any decent steel works wonders for a user knife and that supersteels are a bit snobbish, myself being guilty of that too.
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I agree... Now, there are certainly tested and proven differences between steels, establishing "super steels" as superior for knife blades; RC scale, charpy, rope tests, cardboard, etc... But in a world where most people in the general populace don't pay attention to such things, where Buck still makes it's living on 420hc, and the Kershaw link gets high praise in the same; where 7cr17 floods the low end market on decent low end Chinese production stuff, and 12c27 is hailed as a great "outdoors" tough stainless, a well manufactured and ht'd batch of 440a even, makes a perfectly adequate knife blade;
It won't hold an edge like most of your "supers" but it is still among the best at resisting rust and is pretty darn tough as far as stainless go. The lower carbon level allows minimal carbide formation, maximizing the high level of Chromium's passivation (stainlessness), and It takes a wicked sharp edge, quite easily in the field even due to lack of the harder carbide formers.

Metallurgically 7cr17mov is identical, with about a half % of nickle added, which in theory helps with stainlessness and toughness, but as 440a is plenty stainless and plenty tough already as far as stainless goes, that additional "softening" would also actually hurt it's already low ability to hold an edge; all else being equal in the manufacturing process, I would choose 440a on a budget blade over 7cr every time.

12c27 which gets a lot of positive hype is actually very similar as well; slightly lower carbon, and significantly lower chromium, with no Molybednum, (even more minimized carbide formation, and less stainless passive film), but is made using a very clean and pure manufacturing process, maximizing overall efficiency of the alloy as a whole, but that said, a "good" batch of 440a will perform every bit as well, more stainless, maybe not quite as tough, but will actually hold it's edge a slight bit longer...
420hc then is very similar to 12c27, with slightly less carbon and chromium, but a slight bit of vanadium added, and Paul Bos and Buck has shown full well how that Steel can be perfectly adequate in a user.
(5cr15mov, with slight variances, is the Chinese equivalent to 420hc)

That all said: when you can pay upwards of over $100 for a Buck (420hc) and a high end Mora or Marttiini (12c27), and upwards of $200 for a Karesuando or high end Helle (12c27) which are considered by most to be perfectly adequate user knives, and even worth the price, 440series, well manufactured and ht'd, even 440a, certainly has it's place (performancewise at least) right up there amongst those steels, but due to lower manufacturing standards over time, giving it a bad rep, and us steel snobs getting spoiled by tool steels and high alloy pm-stainlesses, it becomes an atrocity to charge such a premium price for such a "low grade" Steel... But hey, if the craftsmanship is there in all other aspects of the build, premium handle materials and such, top notch fit and finish, from a quality custom designer/maker, why not charge a premium for a 440 series knife? (Especially 440b or c)... The market will decide if it's worth the price, but the Steel is definitely adequate for a quality useable knife.

My 0.02¢
 
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Cutlover said:
Ignorance....quite the hypocritical post ya got there. ;)

I don't think either of the following brands are overrated necessarily (their reviews speak for themselves), but I view benchmade and CRKT as kind of opposites in the knife world. Benchmade developed a rock solid design, very reliable, great tolerances, and excellent choices of steel. However, their designs aesthetically aren't that much different. Get a super steel, axis lock, and a handle with 1 or 2 solid colors, and you got yourself a benchmade (broadly speaking, obviously there are exceptions. Their limited edition looks badass, they should make more stuff like that). Their is nothing wrong with this at all though, if it aint broke don't fix it, especially since they are doing so well already. Very consistent, but nothing too radical. I would love some more radical benchmade designs, but they know what they are doing. Benchmade Tighe collaboration would be incredible.

CRKT on the other hand uses designs from many people, and their knives are very different and unique. The fulcrum, Tighe designs, and other designs all give a wide selection and access to those designs without the original price tag. I just wish they would use higher quality steel (8cr13mov, Aus 8, etc. Is kind of low end). I do appreciate their price consciousness, and their stuff is quality (I speak from owning an expensive knife from them - 154cm steel is more than enough for my needs though), but better steel for 2x their price would be cool.

Basically, I think that Benchmade focuses on depth, perfecting what appears to be just a few designs, while CRKT focuses on breadth, focusing on making/licensing many radical knife designs more easily accessible to more people. Both of these aims work terrifically well in my opinion, but that's just my take. 2 of my favorite brands.

But back to the thread topic...can someone please explain to me why Hinderer knives cost as much as they do when they use a flat head screw as a pivot? :confused:
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So the screw type should dictate price? Hinderer machines everything in house with hardened steel from the aircraft industry. There is no lash in the screws. They take the time and CNC all parts internally.
 
strategy9 said:
I agree... Now, there are certainly tested and proven differences between steels, establishing "super steels" as superior for knife blades; RC scale, charpy, rope tests, cardboard, etc... But in a world where most people in the general populace don't pay attention to such things, where Buck still makes it's living on 420hc, and the Kershaw link gets high praise in the same; where 7cr17 floods the low end market on decent low end Chinese production stuff, and 12c27 is hailed as a great "outdoors" tough stainless, a well manufactured and ht'd batch of 440a even, makes a perfectly adequate knife blade;
It won't hold an edge like most of your "supers" but it is still among the best at resisting rust and is pretty darn tough as far as stainless go. The lower carbon level allows minimal carbide formation, maximizing the high level of Chromium's passivation (stainlessness), and It takes a wicked sharp edge, quite easily in the field even due to lack of the harder carbide formers.

Metallurgically 7cr17mov is identical, with about a half % of nickle added, which in theory helps with stainlessness and toughness, but as 440a is plenty stainless and plenty tough already as far as stainless goes, that additional "softening" would also actually hurt it's already low ability to hold an edge; all else being equal in the manufacturing process, I would choose 440a on a budget blade over 7cr every time.

12c27 which gets a lot of positive hype is actually very similar as well; slightly lower carbon, and significantly lower chromium, with no Molybednum, (even more minimized carbide formation, and less stainless passive film), but is made using a very clean and pure manufacturing process, maximizing overall efficiency of the alloy as a whole, but that said, a "good" batch of 440a will perform every bit as well, more stainless, maybe not quite as tough, but will actually hold it's edge a slight bit longer...
420hc then is very similar to 12c27, with slightly less carbon and chromium, but a slight bit of vanadium added, and Paul Bos and Buck has shown full well how that Steel can be perfectly adequate in a user.
(5cr15mov, with slight variances, is the Chinese equivalent to 420hc)

That all said: when you can pay upwards of over $100 for a Buck (420hc) and a high end Mora or Marttiini (12c27), and upwards of $200 for a Karesuando or high end Helle (12c27) which are considered by most to be perfectly adequate user knives, and even worth the price, 440series, well manufactured and ht'd, even 440a, certainly has it's place (performancewise at least) right up there amongst those steels, but due to lower manufacturing standards over time, giving it a bad rep, and us steel snobs getting spoiled by tool steels and high alloy pm-stainlesses, it becomes an atrocity to charge such a premium price for such a "low grade" Steel... But hey, if the craftsmanship is there in all other aspects of the build, premium handle materials and such, top notch fit and finish, from a quality custom designer/maker, why not charge a premium for a 440 series knife? (Especially 440b or c)... The market will decide if it's worth the price, but the Steel is definitely adequate for a quality useable knife.

My 0.02¢
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Market does decide price... Also ignorance and brand names are a factor in shaping a market. Not everyone knows about steel used in making knives. A person who doesn't know about steel may think that the Randall with the $500 dollar price tag would be the best performing knife a person could have given the brand and price. I would venture to say in the 300-500 dollars price range I can find a better performing knife than a Randall 440b in edge retention, toughness and better sharpen ability/edge retention ratio. With equal craftsmanship. Set 2 knives next to each other one a modern steel/"super steel" and one 440b of same quality and design for the task at hand I doubt any of us are going to pick up the 440b knife. If collect ability is a factor than Randalls are for sure a good investment. But if I am buying for sheer performance in the Randall price range I would look else where. Just my opinion of course.
 
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