Most over-rated production knife brand?

[stabman]

Why is that not allowed? BM and esee both cover all issues with their knives. They are much less expensive as well. I see little value in a knife company like that.

It's their policy, and they're upfront with it.
Many companies have their own policies, such as saying to not disassemble the knife, don't reprofile the whole blade, etc.

The only reason you could honestly say there is "little value in a company like that" would be if they kept their policies hidden, but they don't.

You get to decide what to buy, and there's PLENTY of choice out there.
You want cheap? You can get it.
Want a warranty where they'll give you a new knife if you cut yours in half with a plasma cutter? Yep, you can get that too.
You have to decide what you want out a knife and warranty, and then find the product that is suitable for you.
But that does not mean that the ones you don't buy from are of "little value"...it simply means you like another knife/company better.

Which is fine. :thumbup:

 

[VermontEdge]

The vast majority of discussion on the forums is subjective. It's hard for me to see it as a problem. A number of people in this thread have named brands that I vehemently disagree with, and I might even chime in and say why if I think there's an interesting conversation to be had.

Totally. I wasn't suggesting subjectivity was a problem. What I meant to say was that when people offer subjective thoughts and objective facts it starts to get messy. I wasn't saying that benchmade is overrated, I was saying that, personally, I haven't found them to live up to the positive things that people say about them. That's different from "benchmade is overrated as a knife brand".

 

[Muaddib1116]

Why is that not allowed? BM and esee both cover all issues with their knives. They are much less expensive as well. I see little value in a knife company like that.

ESEE makes relatively simple fixed blades out of relatively cheap materials and charges a pretty decent amount for it. They are great knives, but part of that price is going into the "no questions asked" warranty, it's not a freebie.

It's not that flicking a CRK is not allowed (you can do whatever you want with your knife), it's that CRK has reserved the right to not warranty damage caused by (what they consider to be) obvious abuse.

It's sort of interesting that in the knife world (and maybe some other gear worlds), the expectation for a warranty has become the expectation that the buyer can do whatever they want to their product and expect a free replacement, and people are super shocked (and sometimes offended) when a manufacturer has a warranty that only covers manufacturer defects. CRK advertises their knives as high end cutting tools made to exacting standards, they've never claimed that their knives are indestructible.

 

[stonproject]

ESEE makes relatively simple fixed blades out of relatively cheap materials and charges a pretty decent amount for it. They are great knives, but part of that price is going into the "no questions asked" warranty, it's not a freebie.

It's not that flicking a CRK is not allowed (you can do whatever you want with your knife), it's that CRK has reserved the right to not warranty damage caused by (what they consider to be) obvious abuse.

It's sort of interesting that in the knife world (and maybe some other gear worlds), the expectation for a warranty has become the expectation that the buyer can do whatever they want to their product and expect a free replacement, and people are super shocked (and sometimes offended) when a manufacturer has a warranty that only covers manufacturer defects. CRK advertises their knives as high end cutting tools made to exacting standards, they've never claimed that their knives are indestructible.

I think he was moreso trying to make the point that such a high quality, precision built knife should easily withstand some wrist flicking. If you can't even flick a knife for fear of damaging it, or voiding warranty, then is it really that tough of a knife that warrants a hefty pricetag?

I know I've got some cheapo knives that I've fiddled with, and flicked for over a decade, with no ill affects. Its Reeve's company so his policies, whatever they may be, are totally fine. But in such a quality knife its hard to imagine some wrist flicks will damage it.

 

[mogmz]

They're titanium liners... I don't think its even possible for a human being to break a well made titanium liner. Hell, we don't even have the strength to break a steel liner thats made correctly. I don't know what the huff is about liner locks not being strong. If they're made correctly it takes incredible pressures to cause them to fail.

just my 2cents.

It's not that I'm concerned about the liners breaking, the problem for me is that both examples I have owned I could cause the lock to move out of alignment with very little pressure on the spine. I could also disengage the locks by spine whacking against the palm of my other hand. Notice I didn't say against a vise, or on a wooden table, just hitting it on my palm caused both locks to fail and the blade to close. I treat my knives like tools and try not to abuse them, but for a "hard use" tool I expect it to not close on my hand with such little force.

edited cuase I dont know how to quote huehue

 

[Cutlover]

I am about as much of a CRK fan-boy as you can find, but the Ned Flanders thing is really funny. I think it is the greatest, and possibly even underrated user knife. Some people seem to get upset when it turns out to just be a pocketknife and nothing more.

As far as overrated knives? I think I have gotten about what I have expected with most knives, but I bought a Boker kitchen knife that I loved until the handle liners disintegrated. It has been in a box as a project to make new liners for about a year now. Good knife, but disappointing handle materials.

How....how do liners simply disintegrate? Elaborate please D;

Also, @thread
How do you flip a Sebenza with enough force to do damage? As far as I know, they only have thumbstuds, and I find it hard to believe that someone could possess a thumb powerful enough to flip a thumbstud opener with enough force to damage the design. Unless you guys are referring to wrist flicking, in which case I can see the point.

 

[Murdamook]

Way to not contribute to the thread and add a post that does absolutely nothing for the topic. Reported so as not to allow further derailment of this thread. Contribute or don't post.. Simple.

How about you contribute to the other thousand threads featuring this same exact question.

For my contribution: I think ZT and Benchmade are both overrated. I have three Benchmade knives. Two axis locks and one auto. They all have vertical and horizontal play; and not small amounts either. My one ZT-a 560-has inexcusable blade play. I sent it back initially for catastrophic lock failure. I received it after warranty work, and it came back to me with no more failure but a massive amount of play; so much that you can actually hear rattling when you shake it while it's open.

 

[Muaddib1116]

I think he was moreso trying to make the point that such a high quality, precision built knife should easily withstand some wrist flicking. If you can't even flick a knife for fear of damaging it, or voiding warranty, then is it really that tough of a knife that warrants a hefty pricetag?

I know I've got some cheapo knives that I've fiddled with, and flicked for over a decade, with no ill affects. Its Reeve's company so his policies, whatever they may be, are totally fine. But in such a quality knife its hard to imagine some wrist flicks will damage it.

I'm not a huge knife flicker (I am definitely a compulsive opener/closer though), but nowhere does anyone say that a Sebenza can't handle some wrist flicking, nor does anyone say that flicking one open will immediately/definitely damage it. I don't even think that anyone has said that flicking it will void the warranty. What Chris Reeve has said (to my knowledge) is that he doesn't see the need for it and he advises against it, and that if you do damage it from aggressively flicking it open, then he might not fix it for free. I'm guessing though, that he'll still warranty defect damage unrelated to flicking the knife open.

Because there might be some confusion about how flicking might affect lockbar travel and cause damage, I'll comment on the lockup geometry philosophy of CRK's (the original) versus pretty much every other production titanium framelock I've seen. CRK framelock geometry is designed such that there is an almost parallel mating of the lockbar lock-face to the blade tang lock-face, which means a couple of things. First that there is very little unlocking force when shocks are applied against the lock (which is where a lot of criticism to framelocks comes from) and second (and more importantly to this discussion) that there is very little to no lockbar wear and engagement drift over the life of the knife. In fact, there are countless stories of very old Sebenza's that still have the same lock engagement as they did new, despite years and years of use.

This type of engagement geometry requires very tight manufacturing tolerances and individual hand lockface tuning (which CRK does for every knife) though, which is probably why every other ti framelock I've seen has the philosophy of jamming the corner of the ti lockbar against the blade tang, causing a lot of lock stick, requiring a long break in period, causing a lot of disengagement due to spine-whacks, and causing a lot of engagement drift over time (part of the reason that early engagement framelocks are so coveted).

What this also means, is that if you significantly alter the lock engagement of a Sebenza, say by flicking it so much that the stop pin is deformed and the blade opens further than designed, then you are also changing the angle that the lockbar lock-face and blade tang lock-face meet, which causes uneven pressure distribution and deformation of the lockbar lock-face.

So, TLDR: High quality, precision built does not necessarily mean that something can handle any treatment, especially if it was designed with a different treatment in mind.

 

[UDIVER]

All of my Emersons and ZT's have held up perfectly........besides a 0560 I've owned but they are kinda known for blade play and lockup issues.

For me, the most overrated is Spyderco, I've had TONS of Spydercos that had rolled and chipped edges, broken clips and scale screws shearing off.

They make cool designs with decent build quality and I respect them as a knife company, but the thin FG blades on the PM2, Endura, Delica...etc etc just can't hold up at all to hard use.

To each their own. Every company has pros and cons, I find less Cons with Emerson and ZT and I've owned just about everything.

 

[Danke42]

Never mind the hole in a Spyderco you're literally paying for air!

 

[Insipid Moniker]

It's their policy, and they're upfront with it.
Many companies have their own policies, such as saying to not disassemble the knife, don't reprofile the whole blade, etc.

The only reason you could honestly say there is "little value in a company like that" would be if they kept their policies hidden, but they don't.

You get to decide what to buy, and there's PLENTY of choice out there.
You want cheap? You can get it.
Want a warranty where they'll give you a new knife if you cut yours in half with a plasma cutter? Yep, you can get that too.
You have to decide what you want out a knife and warranty, and then find the product that is suitable for you.
But that does not mean that the ones you don't buy from are of "little value"...it simply means you like another knife/company better.

Which is fine. :thumbup:

Value is personal. Heck, I'll go much farther than him. Knives I don't own have absolutely no value to me.

 

[Bill1170]

I think he was moreso trying to make the point that such a high quality, precision built knife should easily withstand some wrist flicking. If you can't even flick a knife for fear of damaging it, or voiding warranty, then is it really that tough of a knife that warrants a hefty pricetag?

I know I've got some cheapo knives that I've fiddled with, and flicked for over a decade, with no ill affects. Its Reeve's company so his policies, whatever they may be, are totally fine. But in such a quality knife its hard to imagine some wrist flicks will damage it.

I will hazard a guess that a Sebenza will endure a lot of wrist flicks, but it is possible to flick a knife so hard and/or often that it damages the knife. It makes perfect sense not to warranty damage from abusive opening. Folding knives are cutting tools, engineered to be opened, cut stuff, and closed again. I can imagine Chris Reeve rolling his eyes when one of his folders comes in for warranty repair and shows signs of 10,000 inertial openings, but has the original factory edge in mint condition.

 

[Sosa]

I've been happy with spyderco except the fully serrated h1 steel. It didn't hold up well at all. That whole work hardening thing.

 

[plue]

So I won't say anything about not liking Emerson since I've had a few glasses of wine and I don't want to make this inappropriate. However, I will say that I don't like liner locks and don't trust them. Not because they'll fail, but because if you get some crap in them you can disengage. Now you can't open or close your knife and you've got problems. This happens when you're not in the cleanest conditions and use your knife in them, and has happened to me multiply times until I stopped buying liner locks. No more for me, there's better and more reliable designs out there, and no reasons for makers not to use them except being stubborn / cheap. Emerson can't put out framlocks why? I'd say it'll cut into his profit margins, but that's only a guess.

 

[stonproject]

It's not that I'm concerned about the liners breaking, the problem for me is that both examples I have owned I could cause the lock to move out of alignment with very little pressure on the spine. I could also disengage the locks by spine whacking against the palm of my other hand. Notice I didn't say against a vise, or on a wooden table, just hitting it on my palm caused both locks to fail and the blade to close. I treat my knives like tools and try not to abuse them, but for a "hard use" tool I expect it to not close on my hand with such little force.

edited cuase I dont know how to quote huehue

I've literally never, ever had a liner lock disengage even when border line abusing the thing. What knife do you have that disengages against your palm? Sounds like it has some serious lock geometry issues!

 

[JeremiahWeaver09]

i find ZT to be very overrated, ive had more problems with ZT knives than any other brand

 

[strategy9]

I can imagine Chris Reeve rolling his eyes when one of his folders comes in for warranty repair and shows signs of 10,000 inertial openings, but has the original factory edge in mint condition.

That made me chuckle.

 

[coldmrk]

Honestly, all of the production brands today are being supported by people willing to pay the money for products that satisfy their desire to have cool, useful, badass knives. We are all knife nerds here. We all appreciate different things. I happen to appreciate many different knives at different price points. I really like spyderco, except their Chinese models, I like a couple benchmade models but most of them are too expensive for what you get so maybe they are overrated to me, I like a few kershaws, a couple zts, a few cold steel models, a couple SOG models, I like the looks of a few bucks and bokers and crkts but haven't bought any in a long time. Overrated is hard to pin on a brand, really they are all trying to satisfy our demands to the best of their understanding. Bottom line I think all the brands have their place. The ones that don't will disappear.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

The absolute most? From all the data I've collected in the time I've been a part of this community and into this hobby, I'll have to say CRK. No, they don't all have perfect fit and finish. There are many knives priced at a tenth of the cost of any given CRK that are lighter, offer more efficient grinds for cutting, have stronger locks (if folder) and offer superior ergonomics. Not saying they're bad knives by any means, but even three years after joining BF I fail to see what makes them special. Perhaps it's the price tag itself that people find attractive.

 

[9Nine]

Agreed on Emerson. I decided to pull the trigger on a brand new CQC7V because I loved the look of the knife. I figured I'd give it a shot because, despite all of the negative things I'd read about Emerson, I had never actually handled one. I have to say that I wish I'd never purchased it, but that's okay with me. At least now I know from personal experience.

Pros:

1. I love the texture and color of the G-10 that Emerson used on the handles of that particular knife. If I was asked to point out the perfect G-10 for knife handle slabs, that would undoubtedly be it. They really knocked it out of the park in that regard.

2. Blade shape. I don't harbor the brutal hatred for the chisel grind that seems to be a talking point for many of Emerson's critics. It's okay, I could take it or leave it. However, I have to say that I absolutely adore the tanto blade shape that they went with in this knife design. It was basically perfect.

3. Wave opening. It's pretty self explanatory. I love Emerson's wave design.

Cons:

1. Fit and finish. It was basically impossible for me to find a harmony between being able to open the knife easily, and side to side blade play when closed. When I tightened the pivot screw enough to eliminate blade play, the knife was way too difficult to open one handed, even when waving it open I had to use entirely too much force and snap. Likewise, when the pivot screw was loose enough to keep the opening action smooth and easy, the side the side blade play was ridiculous.

2. More on the opening: After a few months of use, it got really sticky at certain points during the blade pivot when opening the knife. Even after a thorough disassembly, cleaning and lube job, it was still sticky at certain points. The pivot screw tightness was irrelevant when it came to this issue. I'm not sure why.

3. Lock issues: After a few months of use, the lock worked itself almost all the way to the far end of the blade. The knife started at probably 25 % lockup, and it now rests about as far to the right as it can physically go.

4: Lock issues cont.: This was the final damning issue for me, and caused me to permanently retire the knife: Lock rock. With the knife fully opened and locked up, it takes a very small amount of pressure on the blade to cause about a 30% lock slip. That is absolutely unacceptable to me. I don't want to be using the knife hard one day and have the lock completely slip and send my ass to the emergency room because the blade closed on my hand. Safety is #1, and Emerson failed big time.

5: And finally, price. 200 bucks is too much for this knife, considering everything that I mentioned above. These are the sort of issues I'd expect from a 20 dollar Gerber or something, not a company like Emerson who touts their products as "The World's #1 Hard Use Knives".

Those are my thoughts on the matter.