Moved from General Knife Discussion: Gil Hibben is selling his latest Rambo knife.

This thread is turning out almost like some of the recent Sebenza threads..

I would think that having something you made, used in a major motion picture, would be worth a lot more than money.... Even if I can't stand Stallones movies.

I have to admit that after reading this thread it has done one thing for me,
it has made me start looking for some of his work that he has done in the past. Not to buy, just to see other work he has done, so I for one don't associate his name automatically with United Cutlery..
 
I can see nothing wrong with a knifemaker who makes both functional and art knives. Sure, nobody is going to buy a $10,000 fantasy piece and hang it on thier belt when they go deer hunting. They buy for the artistic value and in appreciation of the vison and the skill that it took to create it.

I have learned a lot about knifemaking and I think I can make a pretty good knife if I do say so myself. But when I look at some to the pieces that Gil has done I go WOW, I wouldn't even know where to start.

Even if you think "fantasy" knives are silly and a waste of money, if you know anything about the craft of knifemaking you have to appreciate the skill it takes to create one. Grinding a straight flat blade is hard enough to do properly. Try it with multiple blades curving every which way and intertwined with all sorts of embellishments.

Some of Gil's more radical pieces were actually based on the designs of others. They could visualize it and draw it on paper but they couldn't make it real. Gil could.

By the way, the Rambo knife is functional. Movies often use aluminum or rubber knives in a fight scene for the safety of the actors but they also need a real knife that will not snap or fall part when the character chops through something solid.

The choice of D2? I can only assume that a Hall Of Fame knifemaker with over 50 years experience knows what he is doing and I will not presume to second guess him. As far as I know none of the knives that he made and sent to Stallone failed. If a knife pleases the customer who ordered it, and it performs the tasks that it was designed to do, what else matters?
 
True, but a lot of cynical people over the years have called me a fool for buying expensive knives. "I could buy 14 or 15 Case knives for the price of that Bose you have."

I am glad I was not cynical 15 years ago when knives that are selling for 10k and above could easily be purchased for under 2k. (not trying to be snobbish here just trying to make a point) I think is is better to have an opinion and act on it based on actual research than a personality trait or aspects of an investigation that only covered the surface. Nothing wrong with being a cynical opinion at all as long as it is not combined with a lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject. :D. Nothing wrong with educated cynicism at all, it can keep people from making mistakes. ;)

Years ago cynics without foresight thought personal computers would never be anything more than toys. A lot of main-frame based companies (software and hardware) fell by the wayside due to those cynical paths that they chose to stay on. A lot of cynics missed great investment chances.

Now I am not a movie buff at all nor am I into the fantasy area of knives (that does not mean I can not appreciate the skill that goes into them and Gil has that skill in spades), but a lot of people are into movies and fantasy type knives. I feel the knife is priced fairly and has an excellent chance of appreciation. I also know for a fact that some of the things written about Gil is this thread are based on a lack of knowledge and are untrue and to let some of those statements go unchallenged is not a good thing.
 
338375 said:
it has made me start looking for some of his work that he has done in the past. Not to buy, just to see other work he has done, so I for one don't associate his name automatically with United Cutlery..
Click to expand...

Check out the Kenpo Karate knife and the Elmer Keith's for nice examples of his work.

I think cutlery history will smile kindly on Hibben in the long run, and he will take his place among other knifemaking greats(Scagel, Loveless, Randall, etc......). One also has to look at all the other knifemakers that got ther start or recieved help from him, Warenski, Draper, Johnson, etc.....
 
Being a cynic doesn't stop man from being a fool or lacking foresight - but neither does being a cynic make man a fool or prevent him from having foresight.
 
Elen said:
Being a cynic doesn't stop man from being a fool or lacking foresight - but neither does being a cynic make man a fool or prevent him from having foresight.
Click to expand...


Yes true, but not my point at all.
 
Elen said:
Indeed, I already had a fun moment about it. Imagine yourself trapped in some jungle hellhole, without so much as a knife in your hands, finding some old beat-up forge and quickly making yourself a blade - out of D2! :rolleyes: Where did he get that D2? :D
Click to expand...

I'll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone. Sometimes, in movies and television, things are not what they seem to be.

In the movie, Rambo is seen forging the knife but it is not portrayed as being D2. In the movie, the steel is scavenged from a scrap yard. I don't know, maybe you could find some D2 in a scapyard.

Perhaps, given the humid jungle environment where the knife would be used, it was determined that something that wouldn't rust the first day would be preferable. The prop people might not be well versed in the care of carbon blades. So maybe they decided to use something that wouldn't rust easily yet was tougher than 440C stainless. D2 perhaps?

Just a thought.
 
"Where did he get that D2?" It's a movie. Get real. The only thing that I will imagine is sitting there in the theater on Jan. 25 and watching and enjoying the entertainment. Where do the bashers come up with this shit. I guess theres a bunch of detectives out there that jump off buildings like John McClane everyday.
 
Some people will tell you that D2 is not a suitable steel for big knives. They know better than master knifemakers like Gil Hibben and Jimmy Lile, both of whom used D2.
 
I know that D2 is hard to get an edge on after it dulls down, but the dulling should take a while with D2. I don't prefer that type of steel. That's just me. I'm glad Gil was chosen once again for the fourth installment. I think he and Stallone communicate great together because they have come up with two awesome blades. I'm looking forward to the movie. I've already got my seat at the theater waiting. The manager owed a favor and told my wife and I to pick a movie. Can't wait.
 
OK, I'm new to knives, so forgive the question if it's been asked a million times before, but what is D2?
 
MisterSat said:
I'll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone. Sometimes, in movies and television, things are not what they seem to be.
Click to expand...

Darn, what a killjoy. :D

MisterSat said:
Some people will tell you that D2 is not a suitable steel for big knives. They know better than master knifemakers like Gil Hibben and Jimmy Lile, both of whom used D2.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should remember that "master knifemakers" are only human, and mortal, and quite prone to making the occasional mistake or submitting to their personal tastes like anyone else. That a good knifemaker would choose to make a knife of steel X certainly does not mean that steel X is the best, good, or even suitable for what would seem to be the purpose of the blade. In this case, with a collectors' item instead of a user item, the properties of the steel hardly matter that much. D2 is very suitable for big knives that are never going to be used "abusively." If you're really going to beat on it, like one might expect to do with a big knife, then D2 is certainly not the best, or even the best bang for the buck steel to go with.
 
I have no personal experience with D2 steel, so I can't tell you anything other than what I've heard.

D2 is a tool steel. It has just a little bit less chromium than stainless steels do. I've seen it described as having good wear resistance but likely to chip and break.
 
Elen said:
Darn, what a killjoy. :D

Perhaps we should remember that "master knifemakers" are only human, and mortal, and quite prone to making the occasional mistake or submitting to their personal tastes like anyone else. That a good knifemaker would choose to make a knife of steel X certainly does not mean that steel X is the best, good, or even suitable for what would seem to be the purpose of the blade. In this case, with a collectors' item instead of a user item, the properties of the steel hardly matter that much. D2 is very suitable for big knives that are never going to be used "abusively." If you're really going to beat on it, like one might expect to do with a big knife, then D2 is certainly not the best, or even the best bang for the buck steel to go with.[/QUOTE]

Very true. Different knifemakers choose different steels for different reasons. Some steels are better suited to certain purposes. Some people even buy into all of the latest greatest supersteel hype.

Yes, knifemakers are indeed human and prone to mistakes just like the rest of us. As far as D2 being suitable, I do think if a knifemaker has been using it in big knives for decades without problems then it is a suitable steel. I'm sure if over the years Gil had customers sending their knives back or telling him that the blade broke or chipped he would have stopped using it. Thickness, proper heat treating and tempering also play a huge role in how a knife steel performs.

A lot of people tend to repeat what others have told them but not have tested the theory themselves or can even cite a real case where a properly made D2 had a failure like some people will predict. No steel is "best" for every purpose. Any blade can be broken, dulled, or chipped.

Again, the knife of this discussion did what it was designed to do without failure.
Click to expand...
 
I recently shot some photographs and wrote a story about a fellow in Illinois who went to a barn sale and bought a handmade Bill Scagel knife for $5. He then put it on Ebay and sold it for $10,700.

So, was the knife worth $5 or $10,000? The answer is simple. To the guys who sold it at the barn sale and the guy who bought it, it was worth exactly $5. To the collector who bid against a lot of other collectors it was worth $10,700. I have no doubt that it will someday be worth even more to another collector.

Collectors pay huge amounts of money for cars that they don't drive, guns that they don't shoot, dinner plates with Dale Earnhardt's picture on them that don't eat from, and knives that they wouldn't dream of cutting anything with. So be it. They enjoy it and it makes them happy. Sometimes they even make a little, or a lot, of profit from it. I can't agree that they are idiots for doing so.
 
Fact is that there has been too much ignorance posted in this thread about Gil and this knife.

It is doubtful the knife will be purchased for heavy chopping by many people.:yawn:

I can not afford to buy collector knives and use them for chopping. We need more people who can in this hobby.

Logic tells me it is priced at a fair point so that the purchaser can enjoy the knife for what it is and have the knife at the very least hold it's value. My bet is that the knife will be in the 1500 to 2000 range.

The above is based on who made it and the fact that the design will be in a movie that will draw a lot of people. There will be folks who are knife collectors that will purchase them as well as those who collect movie stuff.

Other than these side distractions, it would be interesting to hear why you say this knife is not worth the money as a collector piece of movie memorabilia or as a collector knife.

Your stance seems to be that the knife is not worth the money as a tool ignoring who made it and the reason it is around.

No argument from me there at all other than the stance could be flawed because much is not being taken into consideration. That is all I am trying to point out as well as the mistaken posts that maligned a good kind man, a talented knife maker who has given much to our hobby and has passed his knowledge to others.

This is the all important "sizzle" that experienced collectors consider. It is a slow building and burning sizzle not a flash in the pan. It is the common thread in great collections. There is a reason for that. Fact is 20 years ago you could buy a under $50 dollar Loveless style knife that would cut as well as a genuine Loveless or you could spend a little under a grand for a Loveless. Fast forward to today the 50 dollar knife may or may not be worth 50 and that overpriced Loveless is worth so much that you have forgotten the pain of purchasing it yielding a return better than a few mutual funds I have been into since then. ;).
 
So true Bastid. The knife is what it is because that is what Stallone wanted. The people who buy it will do so because they want one exactly like what is seen in the movie and made by the same man who the movie knife. In most cases they will not be at all concerned with what steel is used or if the blade would chip if they chopped through a cinder block with it.

I apologize that I got a little smart-ass in a couple of my replies. Nor do I intend to come off as a know-it-all because I certainly am not. Gil is like family to me and as such I get little ticked off when I see him unjustly ridiculed. I posted so much in this thread beacuse I had a little unique insight to the man and the knife that I thought was relevent to the topic. I also wanted to correct some misinformation that was being posted.

By all means, if you want a user to chop limbs in your back yard, Gil's knife would not be your best choice. If you want an accuarte authentic replica of the knife seen in the movie there is only one choice.
 
Has anyone noticed "The Sword of Kahless" in MisterSat's pic. It is on the top of the oven to Gil's right.

It is from an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

Geez, I'm pathetic.

Watson-349
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top