My damn RTAK broke!

kgd said:
This kind of thing happens, especially with production knives that are produces in the the 10's of thousands. Stand up companies offer warranties and others do not. Contact Ontario and see if they will make good. If they don't then you have the right to complain. If you haven't contacted them and given them their due - then this post is premature IMO.....
Click to expand...


Why is it premature? If Ontario takes care of me then I should be quiet and pretend it didn`t happen?
I haven`t complained about Ontario as a company, just questioned what happened. If i had attacked the company before giving them a chance to remedy the situation THEN it would be premature.
Maybe I should have said I had a mystery chopper that experienced a malfunction and then expected detailed help from the learned folks here.
Gheesh.
 
Wait, was it D2 or 1095?

In post #7 you say it was D2, in post 20 you say it was 1095...
 
Putting aside the issue of knife maker's reputation and blade geometry and so forth, I think the real lesson here is that any blade can break. No material known to man is unbreakable, hence the saying, "Two is one. One is none." There are good knives and there are bad knives, but there are no perfect knives. All blades fatigue. All steel is subject to microscopic corrosion and uneven tempering leading to stress concentrators. So doubling up on knives is wise. Tripling up on firemaking methods is brilliant. Multiple water sterilization methods might save my life. I shall endeavor to avoid single point failures whenever time, physical fitness, and money allow. For me at least, this is the lesson. :)
 
kdstrick said:
Wow... I'm surprised. For around the same money you can get a Busse Scrapyard knife which carries a lifetime warranty. They are tough as nails.
Click to expand...

the only scrapyard knife you can get for that money has a five inch blade as opposed to ten and you'd have to get it from the store during one of their rare and time limited releases.if its from the secondary market where the majority of them are sold forget about it,now the price went up to $150 or more.
 
i had a smaller problem with my 1095 RTAK 2.

i was just wacking some pine with it and a dime sized part of the blade bent kind of like if you placed it on its side on the ground and hit it by the edge with a ball peen hammer.

mine had serrations on it that chipped out and i didnt think it had seen the type of use that would warrant that.

i gave ontario a call and they took care of me but also made it clear they wouldnt take care of me twice.

the lady on the phone kept asking me if i had done anything funny to the blade or with the blade.it was like she thought i was up to something dishonest and it pissed me off.

i got my new one and sold it right away.i really like the idea of having the perfect size between a machete and large knife like the RTAK was designed to be.i gave up on the dream and now i just carry one or the other.

i'm also not going to just assume that ROWEN will make a better product than ONTARIO did either.ONTARIO has been around much longer in the knife game and their have been problems with T.O.P.S. knives before chipping out and such.

imo the new RATS made by ROWEN are just slimmer T.O.P.S.

i mean what are the differances other than designs.they are made in the same place,with the same 1095 steel and in some if not all instances probably the same heat treat for the sake of convenience although i dont know that.and they practically have the exact same handles,the only difference being the color of the liners.

i'm not saying being like T.O.P.S. is bad just pointing out the similarities.
 
I've had three RTAK's break, in as many years. All three blades broke in similar fashion to the RAT-7 illustrated in this thread. In all three cases I was using the knives to limb pine, spruce and birch trees at hunt camp, no batonning, beating, or other such usage. I returned the first two to Ontario and they replaced them no questions asked, the third I kept, as I've just kinda given up on the design as bush knife.
All three were the original RTAK (not RTAKII), all were 1095 without serrations. As I said I've given up on the Ontario RTAK and am on the hunt for another large knife to fill that unique space in my collection.
 
StretchNM said:
Somewhere I read an article on batoning and the forces involved - as it pertains to the blade snapping. There are some geometric considerations that affect the force applied to the blade. I can;t remember all of it, or where I saw it, but I remember it making complete sense. I don;t think there's a blade made that can;t be snapped if batoned in just the "right" way.
[/I][/B]
Click to expand...

I remember this PDF about batoning I found here; http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf

Any knife can fail, for any number of reasons, it's why I test all my blades right when I get them. I do some serious chopping and batoning. It's another reason I get blades from companies with good reps and warranties like the Busse folks and BM so just in case something slips through QC I'm covered.

Good luck and keep us informed of what happens.
 
Three things:
1.) Seasoned hardwood can be a cast iron b*tch to get through
2.) This is an example of why I prefer to carry/use dedicated choppers like hatchets and kukri.
3.) That being said, IMO, a knife the size of the RTAKs should be able to be batoned.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Three things:
1.) Seasoned hardwood can be a cast iron b*tch to get through
2.) This is an example of why I prefer to carry/use dedicated choppers like hatchets and kukri.
3.) That being said, IMO, a knife the size of the RTAKs should be able to be batoned.
Click to expand...


I agree 100%

I have taken knives through seasoned hardwood that weren't actually built for that. Some of those knives only as thick as 1/8th. When I would hit a knot, I expexted failure, but the knives went through with no damage to the blade. So if I purchased a knife like the RTAK I would be upset if it failed also. That said. Ontario should back the warrantee, and if and when I got the replacement; The first thing I would do is baton some seasoned hardwood, to see if was an isolated incident or just poor heatreats. Whether the blade is 1095 or D2 has little to do with the failure.
 
Thanks for posting this, MidwestDave. I think it's posts like this that keep us on our toes when it comes to gear choice, reminding us that kit is fallible , and testing it before being forced to rely on it.

I've never handled an RTAK but always thought that they look decent enough knives. They may well be. It's a production knife after all though. As has already been mentioned, production knives can be variable in quality from one batch to the next or one knife to the next. QC is minimal so any but the most obvious defects aren't spotted, or worst case are ignored anyway.

That's why I buy just a few specific brands or the occasional custom for knives I expect to be able to rely on and abuse (or make mistakes with) if needed without them breaking.

What I think is important is to realise that there might be limitations on kit that might not be expected. This post highlights some possible ones with a few knives.

That's not to say all examples of those particular models are worthless. But I think if you want to know that you can really rely on a knife, there should either be practically no examples of it failing, or your knife should be tested hard with frequent use before you stake your life on it.

I don't fall into the camp that says knives should be used only for their particular purpose. My view is that I don't know what I might end up using a knife for, so it had better be able to cope with it! Also, mistakes can happen: batoning with poor technique, dropping it onto a rock point first, hitting an embedded nail. Maybe you'll be stuck on steep a river bank that's flooding, and the only way out is to use the knife as a piton to climb... or be stuck in an upturned truck with the cab crushed and the doors jammed... Maybe I'm just too imaginative, paranoid and plain weird, but maybe not...

Whether or not Ontario make good on the knife, that doesn't take away the possibility of a production problem in some batches or in QC. If the knife fails when you need it the most, you might not be back to claim on the warranty!

Choose wisely and test heavily!

P.s. Aren't you impressed? I wrote all that without once mentioning Busses... oops!
 
Thanks for the additional info Midwest Dave. It is starting to make some sense now. Some pictures of the breakage would be nice to see.

Many people get a lot of use and are happy with their Rat 5 and 7's so I don't think the RTAK breakage is predictive of your other two knives.
 
Here is a 7"er that you won't break !!!!
P6150017.jpg
 
Batonning, done properly, is less stressful on a blade than chopping. The edge starts out in contact with the wood instead of meeting it with a BANG!

Limbing trees by chopping into the natural V present where most branches attach to a trunk is stressful technique. An axe book will tell you to limb by chopping at the opposite side of the branch/truck junction where the wood is less dense - and that's for a big honkin' axe with axe steel and axe heat treat. I know that is less convenient when limbing standing trees, but keep chopping into the V's with a knife made to hold an edge and it's likely to be: good; good; good; . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .; woops!
 
for the original poster. i know that the original rtak was prone to chipping and breaking thus the recreation of the rtakII which i have not heard of anything bad happening to them. which of the 2 models did you have?
 
foxyrick said:
Thanks for posting this, MidwestDave. I think it's posts like this that keep us on our toes when it comes to gear choice, reminding us that kit is fallible , and testing it before being forced to rely on it.

I've never handled an RTAK but always thought that they look decent enough knives. They may well be. It's a production knife after all though. As has already been mentioned, production knives can be variable in quality from one batch to the next or one knife to the next. QC is minimal so any but the most obvious defects aren't spotted, or worst case are ignored anyway.
Click to expand...

I'll second the importance of field testing gear before going in harm's way with said gear. :thumbup:

I would say, though, that it's not just production knives that are variable in quality from one knife to the next. That goes for custom knives as well. In fact, for all knives. And this coming from someone who owns quite a number of customs from all the world over.
 
sicily02 said:
Here is a pic of my rat -7 that broke while I was battoning a 3" or so round of mullberry at camp site.

Mine was made out of d-2.
Click to expand...

Those pictures are hideous! No knife should ever look like that.

I've chopped a lot of wood, including some hard dry stuff, with my RAT7 D2, and it's been fine. I haven't batoned like that, but I'm wondering if it was a matter of the heat treat, or the composition of the D2 in that particular batch of knives that made it brittle.

It would really suck to have that happen out in the woods, if that was your only camp knife.
 
Thats pretty unimpressive.

The other day I was splitting some really stubborn wood (I mean really stubborn, it got the best of me) with my Ranger RD7 and a 2.5' baton 3" across made of seasoned hard wood. I wailed on that knife until 2 of the bolts holding the handle came off and my hand was throbbing from the vibrations. I was battoning in a pretty abusive manner, with little regard for technique with emphasis on beating the **** out of that knife. Aside from the issue of the handle, and the baton pulp thats dried onto the spine the knife is no worse for the wear. IMO if this blade were to realistically suffer from a failure, that would have been it, I'm pretty confident it could handle anything else I threw at.
 
sketchbag said:
Thats pretty unimpressive.

The other day I was splitting some really stubborn wood (I mean really stubborn, it got the best of me) with my Ranger RD7 and a 2.5' baton 3" across made of seasoned hard wood. I wailed on that knife until 2 of the bolts holding the handle came off and my hand was throbbing from the vibrations. I was battoning in a pretty abusive manner, with little regard for technique with emphasis on beating the **** out of that knife. Aside from the issue of the handle, and the baton pulp thats dried onto the spine the knife is no worse for the wear. IMO if this blade were to realistically suffer from a failure, that would have been it, I'm pretty confident it could handle anything else I threw at.
Click to expand...

Now that's a well tested knife! Get them bolts fixed and it sounds good to go.
 
rctk1 said:
for the original poster. i know that the original rtak was prone to chipping and breaking thus the recreation of the rtakII which i have not heard of anything bad happening to them. which of the 2 models did you have?
Click to expand...


It is/was an RTAK II. I can only assume the II stands for how many pieces it ended up in.


On a happier note, there were two surprises yesterday that kind of slipped my mind.
As I`ve said in a different thread, a friend of mine is clearing Hop Hornbeam (local Ironwood) from his property and I`ve been cutting some with the intent of making walking sticks. So yesterday I wandered into the woods with my Ontario RAT7 looking for some likely candidates. I found several and used the RAT7 to chop them down. The knife was a bit light and short to chop with, but it worked and dropped a couple of Ironwoods, then delimbed and detopped them.
I didn`t baton with it yet, but I will next weekend and it may become my new big knife.

My biggest surprise came when I tried out my Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel. I`d seen the video and heard the hype but doubted the claims about it`s chopping abilities.
So I find a nice 3.5 inch Ironwood and felled it. Then I limbed and topped it and found another and did the same.
It actually chops like a small hatchet. But the biggest surprise came when I examined it afterward. No chips, still very sharp, and after going through 2 Ironwoods, the damn paint wasn`t even scratched.
It`s got enough length to swing and works even better two handed. The ball type swell at the end of the handle makes it very easy to hold onto. Well designed and well made.

So there was my weekend. One failure, one mild surprise and one that stunned me.
I will do some more testing this week on the shovel and try some MILD batoning with the RAT7.
I`ll also call Ontario and see what happens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top