My damn RTAK broke!

sketchbag said:
Thats pretty unimpressive.

The other day I was splitting some really stubborn wood (I mean really stubborn, it got the best of me) with my Ranger RD7 and a 2.5' baton 3" across made of seasoned hard wood. I wailed on that knife until 2 of the bolts holding the handle came off and my hand was throbbing from the vibrations. I was battoning in a pretty abusive manner, with little regard for technique with emphasis on beating the **** out of that knife. Aside from the issue of the handle, and the baton pulp thats dried onto the spine the knife is no worse for the wear. IMO if this blade were to realistically suffer from a failure, that would have been it, I'm pretty confident it could handle anything else I threw at.
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If the RD-7 was made of 5160, like mine, that steel is known to be good for impact tools, unlike D2.
 
Mountainman38 said:
I haven't batoned like that, but I'm wondering if it was a matter of the heat treat, or the composition of the D2 in that particular batch of knives that made it brittle.
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Being fairly smooth and uniform in shape like that, I'd bet money it was a heat treat problem. Likely something was touching it or otherwise interfering with the quenching process, leaving the portion that broke off too hard.
 
Thomas Linton said:
If the RD-7 was made of 5160, like mine, that steel is known to be good for impact tools, unlike D2.
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Indeed it is.

Another interesting observation, slightly off topic though, I also did the same kind of violent battoning with a ScrapYard Dogfater (s7 steel), and even though the Scrapyard had a rubber handle the vibrations were WAY worse, I couldnt handle it with work gloves on it was like I was whacking my palm with a stick and hard.
 
Thomas Linton said:
If the RD-7 was made of 5160, like mine, that steel is known to be good for impact tools, unlike D2.
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I too have heard makers (including Justin Gingrich of Ranger Knives) comment that 6"-7" is pushing the length limit of a blade made of D2. Assuming the D2 version of the RAT7 is the same thinness of the 1095 version (which i have, and mine mics at .195 at the ricasso and .175 at the spine where the jimping is), the I would expect the RAT7 D2 to be fairly brittle.
Not to say some amazing things aren't being done to make D2 a lot tougher (heat treats by Dozier & Busse are exceptional, and Diamondblade sounds promising)... It will be interesting to see if the 1095 version is tougher - I have seen 1095 vary wildly in toughness, from tie-it-in-a-knot tough to brittle as a mill bastard file. I don't have much experience with Ontario's heat-treat history with 1095, but from what someone just said about their machetes, plus the RTAK failure that started this thread, it sounds inconsistent at best...
 
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3/16" thin, full flat grind D2 with Ontario's hit and miss (this time miss) heat treat will not bring good results.
 
I agree that D2 while an excellent hnting knife steel is not good for that kind of knife.

Scrapyard is having a sale tomorrow for a filet knife and one later in the week for a knife that will probably be a big S7 knife.

I like my DFLE ,it was only 150$ and the DFCG is even cheaper.

That first photo was so strange I thought I was looking at it wrong where the knife was sunk into the sand or something. You could use it for special effect for halloween and have it look like it is sunk into your head.
 
Sorry about your broken knife - very upsetting.

Thanks for the report on the CS SF Shovel. This item has been on my list for a long time. Definitely want to pick one up now.

One item that definitely comes in handy around a campsite is a small shovel.

MidwestDave said:
It is/was an RTAK II. I can only assume the II stands for how many pieces it ended up in.

On a happier note, there were two surprises yesterday that kind of slipped my mind.
As I`ve said in a different thread, a friend of mine is clearing Hop Hornbeam (local Ironwood) from his property and I`ve been cutting some with the intent of making walking sticks. So yesterday I wandered into the woods with my Ontario RAT7 looking for some likely candidates. I found several and used the RAT7 to chop them down. The knife was a bit light and short to chop with, but it worked and dropped a couple of Ironwoods, then delimbed and detopped them.
I didn`t baton with it yet, but I will next weekend and it may become my new big knife.

My biggest surprise came when I tried out my Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel. I`d seen the video and heard the hype but doubted the claims about it`s chopping abilities.
So I find a nice 3.5 inch Ironwood and felled it. Then I limbed and topped it and found another and did the same.
It actually chops like a small hatchet. But the biggest surprise came when I examined it afterward. No chips, still very sharp, and after going through 2 Ironwoods, the damn paint wasn`t even scratched.
It`s got enough length to swing and works even better two handed. The ball type swell at the end of the handle makes it very easy to hold onto. Well designed and well made.

So there was my weekend. One failure, one mild surprise and one that stunned me.
I will do some more testing this week on the shovel and try some MILD batoning with the RAT7.
I`ll also call Ontario and see what happens.
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I once took 2 quarter-sized pieces out of a knife chopping a white birch.It was the first time I've ever broken a knife.Ecpecially a 1/4 inch thick one.I returned ti and there hasn't been any problems with my repalcement.
 
Buffalohump said:
Sorry about your broken knife - very upsetting.

Thanks for the report on the CS SF Shovel. This item has been on my list for a long time. Definitely want to pick one up now.

One item that definitely comes in handy around a campsite is a small shovel.
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I`ll be putting mine through it`s paces this weekend and test it`s digging abilities as well as more chopping tests. Maybe some prying as well.
If all goes well, I`ll be ordering enough of them to scatter around the different vehicles and locales.



Dave
 
while, were on the subject...
I've batoned my rd9 through about an 8" diameter round of wood. (the choil was in the wood and I had about 1 inch to baton)
All the screws came out and I went through 4 or 5 batons... but it was fine.
:D

I also agree, the SY handle doesn't absorb shock from the top well.

anyways, hopefully Ontario will make everything right... I'm wondering if it was an isolated incident or just not a tough enough knife.

I would def. use the "proper" batoning technique when batoning with it from now on.

http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf
 
Reading lots of difft forums I've read about lots of difft knives breaking while batoning them. I've rolled the edges on a lot of khukuris and broke a GB Mini Hatchet before myself:thumbup:

These things happen.

By the way made me sad to see that nice section of mulberry burned:grumpy:
 
I will watch to see how you do with this...Thats bizzare breakage...Defect for sure...They should replace it...
 
I broke a Ontario machete chopping a 4-5 in wild cherry that had fell across a the trail, all seemed fine until one easy swing,and half of my blade went flying! I'd used it for a few months before it broke and hadn't had any problems. I contacted them and told them what I was chopping and asked if it was covered, they said it didn't matter what I was chopping, it shouldn't have done that! They replaced it, so bad experience but good service.
 
Is there any reason to believe that my pristine, unused Becker Brute would hold up better than the RTAK did?
I almost broke the Brute`s cherry after the RTAK incident, but didn`t have the nerve.
It would kill me to damage the Brute, since they are no longer made, although I would like to put it to work.
I`ll leave it to you guys. I just got home from work and plan to sleep for a few hours then head back into the woods this afternoon. I`ll check this thread before I go.

Should the Brute get introduced to some midwestern Ironwood or remain a virgin?
 
If it breaks doing that, it's defective, and you may as well find out now. If you want a safe queen don't use it, if you plan on using it, then you may as well find out if it's worth it's salt before taking it out in the field.
 
MidwestDave said:
Is there any reason to believe that my pristine, unused Becker Brute would hold up better than the RTAK did?
I almost broke the Brute`s cherry after the RTAK incident, but didn`t have the nerve.
It would kill me to damage the Brute, since they are no longer made, although I would like to put it to work.
I`ll leave it to you guys. I just got home from work and plan to sleep for a few hours then head back into the woods this afternoon. I`ll check this thread before I go.

Should the Brute get introduced to some midwestern Ironwood or remain a virgin?
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I have never seen any similar damage to knives from the Becker line so unless someone else knows different I'd think you would be fine !!!!:thumbup:
 
I skimmed thru the post ,now was it the RTAK or RTAK II, or Livesay RTAK ? all 3 was only 1095 steel and the Ontario RTAK had some heat treat issues... I have the RTAKII and never had a problem from it, sent it back to Ontario and maybe they'll help you out ???
 
Dude it is a crime to keep the Becker brute in the box,it was not designed to sit long periods without use.....I use my BK1 w/o hesitation !!!!
 
i have NEVER had a becker fail....EVER....any becker....I use a 9 and 10 and a companion ALOT and have never had an issue....USE THE BRUTE OR SEND IT TO ME!!!
 
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