My First Historical Khukuri-Long leaf Victorian

[ndoghouse]

I dont know about that one blueL? That blade looks to be on the verge of broken? Did you put that "X" there or did they? Looks like someone marked it way back then? Might even be worth calling AC and possibly having it exchanged. That dont look good? Doesnt look repaired just looks broken. May be worth keeping just for the history and tales but for a "user" I dont know if I would trust it.
And Yes Jens eventually I am going to pick up where I left off on the CF handle. I think it will look cool. I need to get me another blank tho. (probably long leaf). All mine have handles on them

 

[blue lander]

I think that X is just residual cosmoline/rust/patina on the blade. That picture makes it look worse than it is. You may be right, though, that it's just a crack forming in the blade rather than something that was repaired. But you'd think a crack would be a straight line rather than "U" shaped like this one. Every time I've had a kitchen knife crack, they've formed straight up and down.

I cleaned it a bit more, and noticed a lot of impact marks on the edges of the spine of the blade. Like this:

At first I assumed these marks were from battoning with something metal. But most of them are lower than the "sweet spot" of the blade where you'd expect them to be. Plus, almost all of them are on the right corner of the spine. Assuming the previous owner was right handed, you'd assume the marks would be on the left corner of the edge.

You can also see a ton of file marks on the edge of the blade from sharpening. I couldn't get a good picture of it, but whoever sharpened this blade last really went to town on it.

 

[ndoghouse]

Just for grins pinch the tang on the very end and let it hang. Tap on lower blade with a piece of metal sharply like a screwdriver tip or something and see if it rings like a bell a bit. If the crack runs mostly through the blade it will probably sound more like a thud,rattle, or no ringing at all. A solid blade should ring a bit depending on where you pinch it on the tang. At some pinched point on the tang you will find a sweet spot and it will ring like a bell. Hope this makes sense? Ill explain it later if ya want.

 

[blue lander]

I'll try that tomorrow. I did notice it rang like a bell every time I placed it on the table. Way more than a kukri with a handle on it.

 

[Bawanna]

I used the same method to check Beretta's for cracks in the slide. Hold it with two fingers on the end and whack it with something. If it rings, your good to go, if it's flat you pretty much got a paper weight.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

One of my longleaves (IMA) got a lose handle. It wiggles less than a mm but I want to fix it. Now its lose but not lose enough to pull it out.
I tried freezing it and warming the metal (carefully with a heat gun) but nothing helps. I don't want to destroy the handle in the process or mess up the blade's tempering.
Would boiling it in water destroy the handle's wood? What if the water goes into the tang hole but I still cant pull out the blade? Could it cause rust inside there or even make the wood expand, making it even harder to pull out?
If I wouldn't be so bend on preserving it, I would just drill an access hole into the tang cavity and inject epoxy into it.
Who has a good idea?

 

[Bawanna]

It most likely isn't dried out. Wonder if the wood next to the tang has just deteriorated and gotten soft. I'd generally try soaking it in mineral oil or Ballistol but if the wood is broken down and punky that most likely wouldn't help much.

No exposed tang to peen. A person might be able to put it in a bag and boil the handle off, then hog out any soft wood and then put it back on with some epoxy or acra glas.

 

[blue lander]

I mentioned it in another thread, but I was able to fix a loose WWII axe head by soaking the wood in car antifreeze overnight. I don't know if that would damage the handle, but I didn't notice any discoloration with the axe. It might be worth trying unless you're set on removing the handle.

 

[Steve Tall]

...I bought a hickory hatchet handle that's about the right diameter, I'm going to saw it down to size, drill a hole for the tang, and probably add a pin or two....

Another approach to consider is to saw the hickory handle down the middle to get two halves, and carve out a groove for the tang, then epoxy the halves together with the tang sandwiched inside. The advantage is that you can accurately drill the holes for two pins in advance (in the steel and in the wood), before gluing. You can carve the groove to half-depth in each half of the handle, or carve the full depth in only one half (probably easier to accurately carve the full depth, but the seam will be off-center a bit).

Once the oversized handle is attached, then you can shape it to fit your hand.

Hickory is a good, strong wood for handles. You'd need a strong wood to firmly hold that hidden tang when chopping, especially if you don't use a bolster.

 

[Steve Tall]

I mentioned it in another thread, but I was able to fix a loose WWII axe head by soaking the wood in car antifreeze overnight. I don't know if that would damage the handle, but I didn't notice any discoloration with the axe. It might be worth trying unless you're set on removing the handle.

"Swel-lock" works better than antifreeze. The generic name is "dipropylen glycol" and is cheaper than the name brand product. From a thread on the axe forum:

The MSDS for auto antifreezes says to minimize skin contact, while dipropylene glycol is used in products for skin and hair care. I haven't tried either yet, but I'd go with dipropylene glycol (generic swel-lock) before I tried antifreeze on items I handle (like axe handles).

 

[ndoghouse]

One of my longleaves (IMA) got a lose handle. It wiggles less than a mm but I want to fix it. Now its lose but not lose enough to pull it out.
I tried freezing it and warming the metal (carefully with a heat gun) but nothing helps. I don't want to destroy the handle in the process or mess up the blade's tempering.
Would boiling it in water destroy the handle's wood? What if the water goes into the tang hole but I still cant pull out the blade? Could it cause rust inside there or even make the wood expand, making it even harder to pull out?
If I wouldn't be so bend on preserving it, I would just drill an access hole into the tang cavity and inject epoxy into it.
Who has a good idea?

If you dont want to use it but just want it tight:
Is the bolster moving with the blade or the handle?
I would let it dry out real good if you plan to epoxy or glue it back. I can think of a few ways to get epoxy in there without drilling but I need to know whats loose so we can plan a path to get it in there. Like Bawanna said tho if the wood is punky then may not be much option other than removing handle. But before getting it wet i would exhaust simple epoxy fix first before getting things wet (or oily).

If you want it tight and plan to use it:
You wont have to worry about compromising the tempering at boiling temps and especially if you only heat the tang like submerging in pot of boiling water (as they do HI knives). Might take thirty minutes or so to get everything up to temp and loosened up since its so old. A few hundred degrees (F) wont hurt it at all. I don't think boiling will hurt the handle wood and I doubt you will have it sitting around wet long enough to worry about rust being a problem. If you go this route it will probably end up being a more permanent fix.

Last resort:
If you had to drill maybe you could drill in an inconspicuous place like between the ring grooves in the handle or at the end of the handle like where a full tang is peened. You could save the drill dust and mix with epoxy and reintroduce to the hole after injection to hide the repair best you can. Not sure how far you would have to drill if you did it at the end of the handle tho.

 

[Bawanna]

Another approach to consider is to saw the hickory handle down the middle to get two halves, and carve out a groove for the tang, then epoxy the halves together with the tang sandwiched inside. The advantage is that you can accurately drill the holes for two pins in advance (in the steel and in the wood), before gluing. You can carve the groove to half-depth in each half of the handle, or carve the full depth in only one half (probably easier to accurately carve the full depth, but the seam will be off-center a bit).

Once the oversized handle is attached, then you can shape it to fit your hand.

Hickory is a good, strong wood for handles. You'd need a strong wood to firmly hold that hidden tang when chopping, especially if you don't use a bolster.

If you go this route which in my opinion is a very good route you can also hide the cross pins. Do just what Mr. Tall said get your groove cut and fitted. (I'd definitely go half on each side, a off center seam would drive me crazy the rest of my born days.
Then figure what size pin you want to use. Drill the metal and then use that as a template but don't drill all the way through, just maybe 1/2" or so depending on how big your handle will be. Allow yourself some leeway so you don't run into the pin when shaping. The rough up your pins, I also rough up the tang, epoxy liberally (I throw up a little bit in my mouth whenever I say that) and clamp it. Rubber hose, heavy rubber bands, tape whatever.

If all goes well you should have a rock solid handle that looks like it's held on by gravity.

This approach in hind sight works much better on a full tang where you can pin forward and back on the handle. Conventional pinning adds strength to hold the handles on too.

 

[spiraltwista]

Amongst many old repaired kuks Ive seen, the drilling of the tang in a single place through the handle to fix I,t seems to then lead to the handle splitting at that point in use. It operates as a place to concentrate all the leverage stresses. Personaly Id leave un riveted partial tangs, un riveted.

Id guess the badly damaged blade is a forging flaw, personally unless just kept for historical study, I would send it back for replacement & certainly never use it for potential safety reasons.

Spiral

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Amongst many old repaired kuks Ive seen, the drilling of the tang in a single place through the handle to fix I,t seems to then lead to the handle splitting at that point in use. It operates as a place to concentrate all the leverage stresses. Personaly Id leave un riveted partial tangs, un riveted.

Id guess the badly damaged blade is a forging flaw, personally unless just kept for historical study, I would send it back for replacement & certainly never use it for potential safety reasons.

Spiral

How does HI make rivets work? Are they just of a big diameter and thus distribute the stress better or is there less stress in full tangs?

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Steve
Blue Lander
Bawanna
And Ndoghouse
Thank you for your suggestions.

I tend towards letting it dry. I was thinking of vacuum sealing it in a bag with some desiccant. Would two weeks be enough?

The bolster is fixed 100% to the blade and wiggles with the blade. There is a tiny gap between the bolster and the handle when wiggling. Wiggle to the keft and theres a gap on the right and the other way. However it's so small that my tiniest screwdriver would not fit in there and behind it is wood anyways which extends into the bolster. So some oil or other chemical could probably creep in when submerged but a syringe with epoxy seems impossible.

 

[Steve Tall]

...the drilling of the tang in a single place through the handle to fix It seems to then lead to the handle splitting at that point in use. It operates as a place to concentrate all the leverage stresses...

This was my concern for the pinned partial tangs, and I thought that a thicker handle would help (but I haven't tested this with hard use).

How does HI make rivets work? Are they just of a big diameter and thus distribute the stress better or is there less stress in full tangs?

Seems like a partial tang would want to "see-saw" within the handle, which is not a problem for the chiruwa and "kangaroo tail" khuks that HI makes (with the tang extending the full length of the handle).

 

[ndoghouse]

The bolster is fixed 100% to the blade and wiggles with the blade. There is a tiny gap between the bolster and the handle when wiggling. Wiggle to the keft and theres a gap on the right and the other way. However it's so small that my tiniest screwdriver would not fit in there and behind it is wood anyways which extends into the bolster. So some oil or other chemical could probably creep in when submerged but a syringe with epoxy seems impossible.

OK great! Thats what I was hoping you would say. What you do to get the epoxy all the way through is tape (clear cellophane) all around the bolster overlapping the bolster and the wood equally on each side. Make several wraps avoiding any creasing or folding if possible. you can actually do this cleanly enough without having to sand if you get the tape tight enough. Poke a tiny pin hole in the tape on opposite sides of the handle where the bolster meets the wood handle . I will try to send you a few how to pics tonight and better illustrate this. Hole on one side is for injecting and hole on other side is for the air to escape while epoxy is traveling under the tape. Clear tape is so you can watch it happening. It works very well with hairline cracks. I had done this before on cracked horn and wood handles. the most important thing you have to do is get a good seal at the injection point between the tape and the syringe (Piece of duct tape with hole in it for gasket works). I cut the needle off the syringe and hold the cut tip flush to the hole while injecting. Need to work fast so epoxy doesnt set up in the syringe tho. It really is simple and effective because the epoxy has to get all up inside the bolster to get to the other side where it exits and you can see it all happen through the tape. after it cures a bit you can peel off the tape and rub any excess epoxy off while it is still soft and you will never know it has been repaired. For lengthwise cracks in handles you will need to lightly sand and polish but for the bolster repair probably not.

 

[blue lander]

Would two pins rather than one fix the see-saw problem? Or what if I use a segment of copper piping as a bolster? I've seen people do that with partial tangs. It sounds like cutting the handle in half and cutting out a groove for the tang would be the best method, but I don't know if I have the skills/tools to do it. I have a table saw and a dremel, that's about it.

This morning I held the blade by the tang and gave it a tap with a screwdriver. It rang a little, but I found if I held it by the cho and tapped it, it went BONG just like a bell.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

copper pipe sounds great. It being hollow and wider than a small pin should help to absorb and distribute the forces better than a normal pin.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

OK great! Thats what I was hoping you would say. What you do to get the epoxy all the way through is tape (clear cellophane) all around the bolster overlapping the bolster and the wood equally on each side. Make several wraps avoiding any creasing or folding if possible. you can actually do this cleanly enough without having to sand if you get the tape tight enough. Poke a tiny pin hole in the tape on opposite sides of the handle where the bolster meets the wood handle . I will try to send you a few how to pics tonight and better illustrate this. Hole on one side is for injecting and hole on other side is for the air to escape while epoxy is traveling under the tape. Clear tape is so you can watch it happening. It works very well with hairline cracks. I had done this before on cracked horn and wood handles. the most important thing you have to do is get a good seal at the injection point between the tape and the syringe (Piece of duct tape with hole in it for gasket works). I cut the needle off the syringe and hold the cut tip flush to the hole while injecting. Need to work fast so epoxy doesnt set up in the syringe tho. It really is simple and effective because the epoxy has to get all up inside the bolster to get to the other side where it exits and you can see it all happen through the tape. after it cures a bit you can peel off the tape and rub any excess epoxy off while it is still soft and you will never know it has been repaired. For lengthwise cracks in handles you will need to lightly sand and polish but for the bolster repair probably not.

Awesome, can wait to try. Would slow setting expoxy be best?