Chiro75 said:
Come to think of it, I don't think any of you guys have paid your $450 yet, so you all better watch it!
"Man, I tried for years to make folders and they wer all crap. Then I spent a few hours one morning at so-and-so's shop and I can knock these things out in my sleep..." or something to that effect. Much of the "dues" people have paid in certain professions are because they were pioneers.
As more and more knifemaking information gets out there, it gets easier and more acceptable that new makers can produce a good knife. Who's this kid Burnley or something like that? New maker, young kid, and I see his knives in every magazine every time I turn a page. They look terrific and the reviews are great. Because he's young and new at this, does that NECESSARILY mean that he makes a worse knife than an old guy?
Knifemaking is a physical motor skill and also a knowledge art. You have to know things to be able to do them. The first guy to quench steel to harden it probably had to do it a bunch of times to figure it out, not to mention tempering. Once he had it figured out at that time, he could show Joe Caveman in the next cave over how to do it in a few minutes. Weeks, months, maybe years of work were distilled into a few hours of hands-on instruction.
So, I don't buy the whole dues-paying thing. You don't have to starve. You don't have to divorce your wife and shoot your dog and try to kill yourself and live on the streets and eat ramen and go into prostitution to be a better knifemaker. Just my opinion. I hope this guy Devereaux never sells a knife for less than $1200 (unless it's to me) and I hope he can sell one a week. That'd be nice. You can make ten $120 knives or one $1200 knife.
The downside, though, is that people are going to get the idea that if they go out to Ed's ranch and take his course that they'll be able to crank out $1200 pieces right off the bat, too. Two things are going to happen: 1) The market is going to get saturated for that knife at that price and 2) Sheep are going to become extinct!
Steve,
Not talking about skills here. That part we will agree on. The new crop of makers has it easier in terms of re-inventing the wheel, materials and tool access. It is easy for a new maker to slap some great pearl slabs on a piece, and buy damascus from any number of top-notch suppliers and have a mighty fine looking knife, if they have the basic skills, frequently resulting in a knife that would have been master class quality only five years before. This raising of the bar requires us to revisit standards, raise the bar, and the expectation level, as well as the relationship of skill to value.
I was talking about value. Just because it looks like a Fowler or to a lesser degree of cost, a Burke, does not make it so. We can all agree that $20,000 for a Loveless Big Bear is a lot of money for a knife, but it seems to be holding value. Same for a Steve Johnson rendition, at significantly less, around $4,000. Next we have John Young at around $1,000 and rising, and just for flavor, Geno Denning at around $800, but he is too damn stubborn to raises his prices to where they should be. So, we have a nice cross-representation of a style and pricing, allowing most desiring that genre of knife to attain it. All these makers have put in enough time to be recognized for having their own rendition of executing the Master's lines.
Ed and Bill have put in their time, paid their dues. Bill has been around AT LEAST 6 years as a maker, because I remember the first time I saw him, and it was in 1997, at the OKCA. Not saying that Butch should not ask the price, but I personally would not pay it. That is for those with more money than I have, and perhaps, less of a cynical worldview. I want sweat equity, and I want to know that the knives that I purchase will hold their value, or to make as best an educated guess as I can, and not get caught up in the irrational exhuberance of the moment.
Mr. Justice, I understand your frustration, but I did not call you a shill. I said I feel that this is
like a shill in a 3 card monte game. If you were manipulated, either by circumstance or by design, it is not a great position to be in. I do not know you, nor your situation with Ed, but I do know Ed. I would not PRESUME to question your integrity or your honor, I only develop opinions on those that I know. I don't mince words, and I stand behind what I say, and I don't backpedal or retreat. I believe for myself, that I will be judged for my words, as much as my actions.
I do know that Ed holds the pursuit of the high performance Blade as dear as he holds life itself, maybe more, and that he wants to see others work towards it, continuing after he is gone. I even understand why.
Again, why Ed allows his prodigies to emulate his style is beyond me. I know that people have come to expect this from Bill Burke, but I can tell you from personal experience that he can do a WHOLE lot more aesthetically than sheephorn, brass and a triple thermal cycled 52100 blade, and does so when economics permits.
