My first knife sold!!!!

haha what a joy to skip thought this.. and nothing I didn't exspect..
hey take this as a good thing...

I see why some guy don't get a lot for their blades and why others get a big amount..

I'm a firm believer that a lot to do with life is ( not all)
it's who you know more then what you know..
you'll see it time and time again
money breeds money and poor breeds poor..

don't get me wrong this is not the case all the time.

dues, what are dues?
some think years of making , building, showing , ecct..
it more I'm afraid,,, playing the game is part of that works , you have to know all the game , and the ones that just happen fall into it, are beaten if not had time in it, that will fix it self if not paying atention...
it's just how it goes
some may not like it but it's the way it's is..

like it or not rubbing elbows with Trump will get you father that rubbing with
Jimbo Smith un-known.. it's fact and you can't tell me different..
like it or not..

what I've seen and know of Ed (which is little) is
in MY mind is good at heart,, wants to help, has his own way with words ,and his patients for this whole thing great..and he shares what he's found.. he doesn't have to
but he does.. and because he is where he is.. if any one thinks less of him,(or the others that have so called made it),

then I have to wonder about the ones that, can't see it..

I made my first sellable knife in 1974 ,,,have I paid my dues???
I can make a fairly good knife, I think so anyway, a big part of you guys have known me for about 4 years now...
and have seen some of my work..why haven't I made it?

no I haven't paid all my dues, in the terms of making it big..
Shane you said you've looked into how to make it... I'll tell you ..
rubbing the elbows, being in the right places, at the right times,
our faces in the right places, the words we speak, the way we speak them.
go a long way..
I have not heard one word in the negative from ED, it's part of his character, IMHO
part of the way.. +

I know why I'm not a big name in the knife biz and that has been a problem I deal with and understand. I chose to do what I did and do and blame no one but myself for what I chose..
there is a lot of green eyed monster here for sure that I can see, that's ok and used in a positive way will get some makers Butts moving in the right direction..for some it will breed more of the same that I see here that will never stop....

because I can't type faster than 3 words a min, I'll stop.
this is just My 2 cents worth and what you all do with it, is up to you all.
nice gets you a lot more than not..
I see a lot of ground opening for burials, don't let the dirt fall on you...
 
it's okay, I'm over it, it just hit me wrong I guess. There are a lot of guys making fine knives, and none of them deserves to be crapped on because they didn't study under one guy or another, or because they charge what they consider to be a fair price.

Tony
 
Everyone sees the price $1200, but consider this. There are NO CAMP knives offered in Ed's sheephorn style in this price range by any maker that I'm aware of. If someone loves Ed's knives, can't pay Ed's $(****), or Bill's $(****) why shouldn't Butch or another of Ed's students fill the market gap at $(****), and feel good about it? Why not?
I think I remember Butch saying his Pronghorn variety would start at around $600. I'm just thinking about simple market supply and demand. Would people buy a $350 Pronghorn, sure! Who's going to make it???

I have seen many $350-$500 hunters offered from veteran knifemakers, but I've never seen a $350 Pronghorn.

And, so what I'm saying is that if you made a $600 Pronghorn, or a $450 Pronghorn that was a high quality knife, without cutting a lot of corners, and with Ed's approval, it should sell very well. And, to keep these knives in the hands of knife users, more than collectors, it seems like a worthwhile venture. If you can keep your costs low and still make a profit.
I'd say go for it. That's why I don't have a problem with anything Butch has done. This thread has spun out of control in so many directions. Most of it to me is about jealousy, or people who think they deserve more recognition. But, ..about Butch it's not that complicated. Make a knife, sell a knife... be proud of what you do. DO what you love. Feel good about it, Dan. God bless! ;)
David
 
Dave,

I pretty much agree with you on this but can see both points of view. Even though some may see us as being biased Fowler fans, the opposite may also be true for some of the folks that posted. I don't have a problem with the views expressed but for a while it did seem to me to get blown out of proportion.

Dan, don't get too riled up with Steve's post, things had been building up for a few days, and he seemed like a nice enough person when we spoke on the phone last night.

Very good expressive replies towards the end of this thread.

take care folks,
Jose
 
Dan, I just realised who you are. You sell some awesome steel man! I may be in the market for some once I get my power hammer built ... or grow some truly enormous biceps so that I can forge down those big bars.
 
Many may be wondering as to why I have avoided posting on this thread. Aside from the few people that have posted about my work,I haven't read anything worth replying to.

For the people who know me and my work and have said so, Thank you.

Nick Can I use that " The best Damn Burke You Can Get"?

About Butch; I was the instructor watching over Butch when he forged his first blade and I must have asked him a dozen time how long he had been forging before he came to the school. His answer was always the same, "this is my first time". The man has incredible talent and seemed to know what to do without being told from the beginning. As for paying his dues; No he has not spent years making knives from scrap and selling them for practically nothing. but he has spent enough time learning to make a knife with good performance fit and finish. If someone is willing to pay what he is asking so what. I personaly wouldn't have posted the price of the knife but WTF. Sh*t happens. I don't think this was intended to put anyone down or devalue anyones work, more just to say, Hey I just sold my first knife". this is all I'll say on the subject.

David, Having you talk about me and the prices of my knives is rather insulting. especially since you have so much of your information wrong. Maybe I'm just sensitive. But to set the facts straight. I sold knives for three years before I ever got as much as five hundred dollars for a pronghorn. My knives except for a few pieces, still don't sell for half of what Ed gets and I have only met you a couple of times so you really don't know me at all. true you have bought several of my knives but you have also sold them and made money on the deals to the best of my knowledge, But that dosen't mean you know me.

Bill B.

Although I don't claim that the knives that I make will bend twenty times, I do claim that they will bend at least once without breaking. And Yes I will replace any that will not do so wheather by accident or on purpose. BUT if it does bend without breaking then it has done what I say and I will not replace or fix it. Just like if mine had been the knife that broke when the trucker tried to cut his way out of the truck, if he would have had it I would have made him a new knife. I do not know who made the knife that broke but I do know that the maker would not replace the knife and told Jerry that his knives were not made to cut apart trucks. Again please don't take this wrong I am only trying to make the point that I will and do stand behind the knives that I make.

this is my first and last post on this thread but I will keep lurking.
 
Jose,

I am a nice guy until I get mad. Then, I become a rabid pitbull. Make no mistake, please, you told Dan not to get riled by my posting, that was misguided. I am still seething mad. He posted the wrong damn thing, in the wrong damn place, and it hurt people too much to just brush off.

Stroking off the maker of your choice is for the "Customs" Forum, under General Forums, not Knifemaker's forums. The support that I have gotten offline from the Resident Knifemaker's here tells me that I wrote the right things. I do care about your opinion of me, because dedicated knife collectors are few and far between, and you seem to have an intelligent and honest approach to your collecting. It will be a cold day in Hell before I care what Dan thinks, I want him to crawl back under the rock that he came out of, but I'm just not that lucky most of the time.

Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to write. I like "The Best Damn Burke You Can Get" myself, a lot. That Wheeler kid is more than just a muscle bound metal masher, yunno?

I remember when I first met you, when we were competing against eachother(well, I was trying, anyway) :D in the Cutting Competitions at the OKCA. You were quiet, and determined, and gave Ed Schempp a run for his money, and the rest of us were wondering who in the heck you were.

I found myself wondering where this Adam DesRosiers guy came from in the same way, when I was at Blade this year. Same quiet manner, same confidence. We were talking about Cutting Competitions, and I told him that he needed to compete against you and Ed Schempp before he could measure himself as a cutter. "Been there, done that" he told me. :)

Over the years, I have watched your work, and was increasingly impressed by it.

I wonder, if I may, if you could go back and start from scratch, would you have placed more emphasis on your own style? Not ignoring the "Performance Knife" style, just promoting more of your own style from day one? Showing the knifemaking community that you were not bound by one style, not a one trick pony?
I can't remember if I told you this at Blade, but I would have purchased that one piece from you, had it not been handled in ivory. Here in So Cal, that material is the least likely to survive the years.

I would not presume to call you friend, but we are certainly friendly, and we had a nice long talk at Reno. I feel bad that I waited so many years to find the time to converse with you. It was one of the high points of that trip. That and the strip club that I went to with Matt D. ;)

I would like to make it clear to anyone that has not figured it out by now, but Bill Burke is NOT a Fowler clone. Currently,his MOST sought after work is the "Fowler" style, but I consider his other work, including his damascus far, far superior to the other style, and have a knife that is sort of a bridge between the two worlds on order. I could not ignore the Fowler connection, but requested Ironwood and SS for the handle furniture.

Deepest thank you's and appreciation for the Knifemakers here, you have suffered my foolish postings generously, and have furthered my understanding of patience, and how truly lacking of that virtue I am. I will keep my postings, nay my visits here, to a minimum in the future.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Greetings All,
I would like to offer my congratulations to Butch on his sale.I got to handle that knife at the Blade show and she is a sweetheart for sure. :D .
I have spent time in Ed's shop working with Butch and he is extremely talented.
Some people seem to resent this and try to guise their jelousy with the "virtue" of dues paying and all that stuff.What a load of crap.
It sounds to me that there will be more pot shots taken at Butch in the future by people who posses neither his talent, workmanship,character,and integrity.I have no doubt that this will not only make him a better knifemaker but more popular than these "critics" expect.
As his waiting list grows I will be interested what"they" will say then??No doubt more of the same.
Way to go Butch keep up the good work and much prosperity in the future.
The man once said "Those who can do and those who can't b**ch.

p.s. Keep the win mag 300 handy :D
 
It seems like I keep hearing the same thing in this thread, over and over about how talented Butch is and how much potential he has. Maybe he has more talent in one finger than some makers have in their whole bodies?

The reality is that talent and potential are no compensation for real experience. He may have experience swinging a hammer from banging nails but it's not the same as forging.

So Butch has had some guidance and knows the basics. I think that he should challange himself to make a knife that is different from anything that he has made before. No help, no guidance and no instruction. Lets see how it turns out.
 
WoW, lots of Input in this thread. So here's mine.

Butch is paying attention! Learning from Master's! Master's in the art of Selling their goods ( High Performance Knives ). Master's of selling themselves!

When I listen to buyers I hear- I bought a Ed Fowler. Then I hear I bought a Bill Burke. Some say I bought a Jerry Fisk or a Shane Taylor, or a Ed Schempp, or a John Davis, or even a Muscle-Bound Mental Masher, or a-- well you get the idea.

They buy from the person as much as buying the knife!

Congradulations to BOTH, Butch and Dan!!

Of course all of this is IMHO.

Happy Forging KCC
 
Thanks to everyone that has posted here and aired thier opinions. I honestly did not post the price of my knife as a smear to anyone but as Nick stated just "WOW I'm damned excited about it".

I want to thank those who support me in the direction I'm going and my accomplishments so far. I have set my standards high and will strive to make every knife a little better than the last one. I feel that my first knives have proven my ability to apply my skills as a crafstman but I know that I have ALOT to learn about "knifemaking". I attended Blade Show in Atlanta and I tried to visit as many tables as I could and visit with the makers. I asked alot of questions and also asked for input on my knives. I kind of had to chuckle at the number of people that told me to look for someone else to learn from and to find my own style. Once again everyone is entitled to thier own ideas and opinions. I did learn alot and met some very nice people that I look forward to seeing again.

I feel very fortunate that I live in the same town as Ed and that he has taken me in as his apprentice. He is a very close friend as well as a great mentor. I realize that alot of people like Ed did not have this kind of option availalbe to them and had to start from scratch on thier own and learn everything by trial and error. I understand that and hold a special appreciation for them. I don't believe that everyone should have to continue to reinvent the wheel so if you have the chance to learn from someone else that is a great benefit. For those without that option I believe that there are always people that will help in any way they can if you only ask.

In all of this thread I had ommitted two very special people only because I wanted to ask thier permission before posting anything to associate them with myself. One of them has already stepped forward by posting a reply to this thread. Bill Burke and Eldon Perkins were both at Eds when I started forging my first blades. They both are superb knifemakers and they helped to instruct me on my first blades from forging through completion. I have had the pleasure of working with them both and they are both great friends. I appreciate all that they have taught me and I look forward to learning from them every chance I get.

Once again thanks to everyone that posted and
HAPPY HAMMERING-KNIFEMAKING.

Butch
 
Whatever the price was, 120 or 12,000, sincere congratulations. The feeling you get with the first sale will give you nourishment for the future.

Ken
 
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