Name & Shame "Flippers"

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SpySmasher

SpySmasher

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shinyedges shinyedges made this thread a little while ago where he suggested naming and shaming those members who flip knives for profit around here. Like him I despise that practice. Like him, I would have no problem naming those members I find engaging in it. I already put any I come across on my /ignore list.

Shiny's idea was rejected but here is what Spark has to say about it:

Spark said:
Realistically there isn't much we can do to stomp out flipping in the community. For one, if they don't do it here, they'll do it on eBay or elsewhere. For another, I'm not a fan of micromanaging the users of the site, and we commonly get complaints that our rules are too complicated already. If the manufacturer isn't going to limit to 1-per-person, I'm not sure how or why we can be expected to police this either, or if it's even our job.

Here's my opinion: I'm not a fan of flipping, and if you are scooping up multiple knives to turn around and resell them, you are a dealer - you just aren't honest enough to admit it. If you want to stay off the radar, my suggestion would be to not advertise a sprint run or similar knife for sale at least for a couple weeks after it's shipped, especially if you have multiples. ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLES.

Supply vs demand is basic economics. Excessive demand drives prices upwards, and the knife industry is no different. We have the feedback forum for a reason, and there's nothing stopping people from using this resource, and the for sale threads, to identify people who are consistently & repeatedly flipping knives at exorbitant rates. This is a large community, but this behavior does get spotted, especially when it's immediately after a product goes live. Word of mouth gets around.

I understand the concerns, but recognize our limitations as well.
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That was this past August. He's already given his blessing to "name & shame" and furthermore indicated that the site will be enforcing a "you flip, you pony up for a dealer membership" policy.

Any mods want to comment?
 
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:cool:

Couldn't agree more. Kevin's (Spark) method of dealing with them is exactly what I had planned to do. Casting a light onto the people abusing the gold membership and crapping on the community here is how we help solve the problem.


To address the inevitable posts that will question what defines a flipper, I say:

1. Selling multiple of a knife immediately (within 1 month of it's release) for a profit.

Multiple would be 2 or more in my opinion but obviously that's up to the community as a whole as everything.


Pony up for a dealer membership and you won't be considered a flipper. Because that's what they are acting like, dealers. Buying knives at a low price and reselling them with the intent to turn a profit. Dealing.
 
Not a Mod, but why not? The obvious thing to do is to just alert the Mods. Those who come to Forum just to flip aren’t likely to even read this, but those of us community minded members who do, will be alerted and possibly avoid them like the plague they are(unless they spring for Dealer Membership). Can’t hurt to try.
 
Whats the end goal? People who don't like the practice already aren't going to buy from them. When you start naming folks they'll just advertise 1 knife at a time and avoid the dealership membership. Then itll be even harder to know who the flippers are because they'll realize they need to obscure that fact and will work harder to stay under the radar.
 
The end goal is to alert more people to who exactly the flippers are, eventually hurting the flippers sales. Perhaps even shaming them into changing their ways. Or at the very least bladeforums will have more dealers then ever before.

The more people who ignore flippers all together the better, sitting around and gum flapping does absolutely nothing. This does something. Something is better then nothing.
 
Boru13 said:
Nothing to comment on at the moment, except posts like the one below are useless and add nothing to the discussion.
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Thanks, Boru.

In my mind, it is important to acknowledge the role that the regular mod staff will play in this process which is why, even though Spark has already "authorized" this policy, I don't want to hit the start button until you guys are ready.
 
Boru13 said:
Nothing to comment on at the moment, except posts like the one below are useless and add nothing to the discussion.
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My point was that I need to see how a thread like this is going to work out before I give it much gravity.
Most folks that spend time browsing have some idea who the flippers are around here but it's the many interpretations of what a flipper is and who they are that's going to derail this potentially useful thread into a lot of finger pointing and squabbling.
Seen it happen, a lot.
Anyway, I've had dealings with a few of those offending members over the years and I swear, I'll be more helpful when, and if, this thread gains traction.
 
shinyedges said:
The end goal is to alert more people to who exactly the flippers are, eventually hurting the flippers sales. Perhaps even shaming them into changing their ways. Or at the very least bladeforums will have more dealers then ever before.
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There are so many avenues to sell from, I doubt this is going to hurt flipper's sales. Shaming them into changing their ways, maybe, but the items being flipped are collectible items. All collectible items in any hobby that are sought after, with a low supply, will go up in price. And we both know none of these people are going to get a dealer membership.

The best way to stop flippers is to hit their supply and not buy from their inflated prices. Make PSAs in different forums notifying people of dates and times of different sprint run drops. That'll hopefully help get these knives into the hands of folks who want them to enjoy, and not to resell.
 
stonproject said:
The best way to stop flippers is to hit their supply and not buy from their inflated prices. Make PSAs in different forums notifying people of dates and times of different sprint run drops. That'll hopefully help get these knives into the hands of folks who want them to enjoy, and not to resell.
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These ideas are not mutually exclusive.
 
I not seeing where in that post he said it’s ok
 
I think this is an extremely ill-advised move to make.

If flipping is going to require a dealer membership, we need to have a definition of flipping. That definition will, like all definitions, have loopholes through which people can evade the rule and also inadvertently catch people who are not really 'flipping' as most people think of it- because all definitions are somewhat arbritrary.

Is buying with an express intent to resell at a profit flipping? I think so. But how do you prove that was the case? Is reselling a limited release at a profit within a month flipping? If so, why is it flipping if you sell 29 days after release and not flipping if you sell it 32 days after release? Is making an excessive profit flipping? If so, what's an excessive profit? Who determines what an 'appropriate' price is, and how are they going to do it?

Without a clear definition and forum rules, this is just another internet mob.
 
rycen said:
I not seeing where in that post he said it’s ok
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"We have the feedback forum for a reason, and there's nothing stopping people from using this resource, and the for sale threads, to identify people who are consistently & repeatedly flipping knives at exorbitant rates."
 
rycen said:
I not seeing where in that post he said it’s ok
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I believe the following is being interpreted as such.
Spark said:
We have the feedback forum for a reason, and there's nothing stopping people from using this resource, and the for sale threads, to identify people who are consistently & repeatedly flipping knives at exorbitant rates.
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Wow, seems extreme! If you don’t like it don’t buy it. This seems a little bit much, so why don’t you just require a dealer membership if an individual sells more than say 6 knives a year or say one a month? If you’ve listed a knife you can list another for 30 days without a dealer membership! Maybe two tiers such as a collector and dealer selling memberships, collector gives you a couple more for those that like to try a knife and move it, dealer for those that......deal!

Is naming and shaming really the kind of presence this forum wants in the knife industry??? I’ve been lurking to decide if I want to spend my money to become a member with more perks but this may turn me away, I’ll see how it’s handled before I pay.
 
All I know is my ignore list is growing like crazy right now. Oh, there's another one. A lot of them have excellent feedback ratings, but the lies (I bought four for friends last week and they didn't want, etc.) accompanying the flips is automatic grounds for the ignore button. Well, so are the flips as described by Shiny Edges.

I will say this: You buy a knife ON THE EXCHANGE (including WTB) and you sell the exact knife ON THE EXCHANGE for more money a few days later without disclosing the x-day old original thread, this should be grounds for uber points. It's the TicketMaster strat, kinda.

Babboonbobo said:
Wow, seems extreme! If you don’t like it don’t buy it. This seems a little bit much, so why don’t you just require a dealer membership if an individual sells more than say 6 knives a year or say one a month? If you’ve listed a knife you can list another for 30 days without a dealer membership! Maybe two tiers such as a collector and dealer selling memberships, collector gives you a couple more for those that like to try a knife and move it, dealer for those that......deal!

Is naming and shaming really the kind of presence this forum wants in the knife industry??? I’ve been lurking to decide if I want to spend my money to become a member with more perks but this may turn me away, I’ll see how it’s handled before I pay.
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You just outed yourself twice. Congrats.
 
Phixt said:
All I know is my ignore list is growing like crazy right now. Oh, there's another one. A lot of them have excellent feedback ratings, but the lies (I bought four for friends last week and they didn't want, etc.) accompanying the flips is automatic grounds for the ignore button. Well, so are the flips as described by Shiny Edges.

I will say this: You buy a knife ON THE EXCHANGE (including WTB) and you sell the exact knife ON THE EXCHANGE for more money a few days later without disclosing the x-day old original thread, this should be grounds for uber points. It's the TicketMaster strat, kinda.


You just outed yourself twice. Congrats.
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Outed myself how??? I don’t buy or sell on this forum, I’m deciding if I want to be a full member!
 
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