Name & Shame "Flippers"

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madcap_magician said:
I think this is an extremely ill-advised move to make.

If flipping is going to require a dealer membership, we need to have a definition of flipping. That definition will, like all definitions, have loopholes through which people can evade the rule and also inadvertently catch people who are not really 'flipping' as most people think of it- because all definitions are somewhat arbritrary.

Is buying with an express intent to resell at a profit flipping? I think so. But how do you prove that was the case? Is reselling a limited release at a profit within a month flipping? If so, why is it flipping if you sell 29 days after release and not flipping if you sell it 32 days after release? Is making an excessive profit flipping? If so, what's an excessive profit? Who determines what an 'appropriate' price is, and how are they going to do it?

Without a clear definition and forum rules, this is just another internet mob.
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I disagree. Don't help identify flippers if you don't want to, but protecting them helps no one but them line their pockets.
 
SpySmasher said:
Don't worry, you're OK. You're even allowed to disagree with ME! ;)
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That’s the way it should be, not bullying people that disagree or have another point of view. I don’t know about all the members here as i said I’m just lurking to get a feel for the sight and maybe make a comment here and there when something interests me. I just offered my third party view on the topic as my view really means nothing at this point which is cool!
I was just explaining that I like to get a feel for a place before I spend my money to join, I want to know what I getting for it and this strategy seems a bit extreme for what the problem is.
If I’m not wrong the issue is,
there are people that buy up the special issue knives at release and then try to turn a profit on them without buying a dealer membership, correct?
Hence my suggestion you can’t sell more than one knife a month on this forum without buying a collector or dealer membership, period. Problem solved. Maybe I’m thinking it’s too simple but that’s what I see.
 
SpySmasher SpySmasher

Maybe we should use this thread for the people who want to bicker and argue about whether or not to out the flippers and start another thread just for listing flippers?

In the pure list thread, people who don't want to help stop flippers or disagree with it don't have to contribute or even click on the thread. Those of us interested to have a list of people to avoid can contribute and learn who else we should avoid.
 
I think this is a cool idea and if done well, can indeed help folks who are relatively new to the site avoid spending more money than necessary on knives being flipped; it can also in a long run contribute positively to the knife hobby that brings many good folks to this site. With that being said, the key here is "done well."

First and foremost, we will have to define clearly "flipper" and "flipping" and make sure we get a consensus on that definition, which I think is something very difficult to achieve, if not impossible.

Closely related, we will have to make it more explicit the line between the dealer membership and gold membership, as most people (I assume) are fine with dealers flipping knives, correct?

Without getting these two things crystal clear, I'm afraid the OP's idea will go nowhere before the thread is closed.
 
shinyedges said:
SpySmasher SpySmasher

Maybe we should use this thread for the people who want to bicker and argue about whether or not to out the flippers and start another thread just for listing flippers?

In the pure list thread, people who don't want to help stop flippers or disagree with it don't have to contribute or even click on the thread. Those of us interested to have a list of people to avoid can contribute and learn who else we should avoid.
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That is probably best.

sharp_edge said:
Closely related, we will have to make it more explicit the line between the dealer membership and gold membership, as most people (I assume) are fine with dealers flipping knives, correct?
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I do think that is correct. That is also how I read Spark's statement above.
 
The members who are determined to flush out the "Flippers", can easily confine their search to those selling large amounts of folding knives.
Fixed blade knives do not seem to stir the same amount of passion in collectors, and members angry at missing out on limited runs.
 
Babboonbobo said:
Hence my suggestion you can’t sell more than one knife a month on this forum without buying a collector or dealer membership, period. Problem solved.
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A simple, if overly restrictive, solution. That takes a lot away from the Gold members; but, as a newcomer, that likely doesn't matter much to you.
 
shinyedges said:
SpySmasher SpySmasher

Maybe we should use this thread for the people who want to bicker and argue about whether or not to out the flippers and start another thread just for listing flippers?

In the pure list thread, people who don't want to help stop flippers or disagree with it don't have to contribute or even click on the thread. Those of us interested to have a list of people to avoid can contribute and learn who else we should avoid.
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I think you are going to have to do something on that level if you want to proceed with this. It will have to be like a photo's only thread(in this case names and offence) where general comments are deleted.
I feel like I am defending insurance companies defending the flippers in any way, but I do disagree to this approach.
They are not doing anything illegal
They are not doing anything against the BF rules-I think Spark would have to see a pattern of repeated behavior to ask for the dealership. 2 knives does not a dealer make.
You are basically attacking members in good standing, even if they are pushing the capitalism thing a bit hard and annoying.
I certainly understand how some get frustrated by this behavior. When I 1st started out flippers and low ballers got to me, but I have moved past it, and it really hasn't hurt my getting or selling knives, just may take a little more time.
But you have Sparks blessing so proceed if you wish. I just don't think it is the best idea. Ignore them, don't deal and don't let them get to you seems the better approach IMO.
but as I said -just my opinion and I know flipping bugs the heck out of many of you
 
Peter Hartwig said:
I think you are going to have to do something on that level if you want to proceed with this. It will have to be like a photo's only thread(in this case names and offence) where general comments are deleted.
I feel like I am defending insurance companies defending the flippers in any way, but I do disagree to this approach.
They are not doing anything illegal
They are not doing anything against the BF rules-I think Spark would have to see a pattern of repeated behavior to ask for the dealership. 2 knives does not a dealer make.
You are basically attacking members in good standing, even if they are pushing the capitalism thing a bit hard and annoying.
I certainly understand how some get frustrated by this behavior. When I 1st started out flippers and low ballers got to me, but I have moved past it, and it really hasn't hurt my getting or selling knives, just may take a little more time.
But you have Sparks blessing so proceed if you wish. I just don't think it is the best idea. Ignore them, don't deal and don't let them get to you seems the better approach IMO.
but as I said -just my opinion and I know flipping bugs the heck out of many of you
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It's ok to disagree, don't contribute to the list or make use of it. Not really a big deal.

I think selling multiples of a knife that dropped last week for 50%+ profit is flipping. Obviously others agree or this thread wouldn't exist.
 
shinyedges said:
It's ok to disagree, don't contribute to the list or make use of it. Not really a big deal.

I think selling multiples of a knife that dropped last week for 50%+ profit is flipping. Obviously others agree or this thread wouldn't exist.
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Fully understand how many feel. I have no love for them myself, but don't favor this approach. I have made my comments while still in the comment section and is it's not like I can't be wrong. Maybe this will solve the problem. It was just one guys opinion to the method.
I'll sit back and see how it goes
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Fully understand how many feel. I have no love for them myself, but don't favor this approach. I have made my comments while still in the comment section and is it's not like I can't be wrong. Maybe this will solve the problem. It was just one guys opinion to the method.
I'll sit back and see how it goes
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The problem is the people who don't like this idea provide no ideas themselves.

I guess they prefer the "do nothing" idea? That's fine, if they want to do nothing, then do nothing.

I think before a name is added to the list a vetting should occur. Several members who volunteer can search post history to find out if they are an exchange only person, do they contribute in other places, do they flip every time a new knife drops, and so forth.

Several members already watch the exchange closely and would volunteer. We have many a retired guys who could and would do this.
 
Do notorious "Flippers" really frequent bladeforums? I can't seem to spot one, just by browsing through the folding knives for sale forum.
If some members are extremely active, reselling limited runs, I would think that they would have already been reported to the staff by an irate member/collector, so that the forum owner could sell the correct dealer membership.
While there have been many threads about this subject, I wonder if any action has ever been taken to identify dealers trying to avoid paying the correct membership fee.
 
shinyedges said:
The problem is the people who don't like this idea provide no ideas themselves.

I guess they prefer the "do nothing" idea? That's fine, if they want to do nothing, then do nothing.
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Mostly because no offence has really happened. IF BF wants to add a rule that flippers will not be tolerated, they certainly should be eliminated, but right now they aren't actually breaking rules or laws, just not being in the best spirit of the forum.
You might be able to get a couple under the dealership definition, and if they fall into that category without too much of a stretching of the definition, I fully back proceeding against them
 
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Peter Hartwig said:
Mostly because no offence has really happened. IF BF wants to add a rule that flippers will not be tolerated, they certainly should be eliminated, but right now they aren't actually breaking rules or laws, just not being in the best spirit of the forum.
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Did you read what spark said to do about flippers?
 
So which one of you guys actually has the courage to put a name down, and reveal to us one person that you suspect to be the worse type of "Flipper"?
It would only be fair to also notify the member in question, so that they could explain their position, and why they may have avoided purchasing a dealer membership.
We could then analyze their transactions, and perhaps come to a consensus about why or why not the practice is harmful to members of our forums.
 
shinyedges said:
The problem is the people who don't like this idea provide no ideas themselves.

I guess they prefer the "do nothing" idea? That's fine, if they want to do nothing, then do nothing.

I think before a name is added to the list a vetting should occur. Several members who volunteer can search post history to find out if they are an exchange only person, do they contribute in other places, do they flip every time a new knife drops, and so forth.

Several members already watch the exchange closely and would volunteer. We have many a retired guys who could and would do this.
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Why not report the offenders post so the mods can remove threads as needed and educate on membership levels and be done with it?
 
stonproject said:
Why not report the offenders post so the mods can remove threads as needed and educate on membership levels and be done with it?
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Why not use the GB&U as the owner said to use it?

Could always send him an email and let him know you disagree...
 
shinyedges said:
Why not use the GB&U as the owner said to use it?

Could always send him an email and let him know you disagree...
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I don't think this means as much to me as it does to you. You mentioned no one else was giving ideas, so I gave an idea. I see a name and shame thread on the basis of flipping creating more work for the mods than just reporting the offending posts.
 
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