Name & Shame "Flippers"

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stonproject said:
I don't think this means as much to me as it does to you. You mentioned no one else was giving ideas, so I gave an idea. I see a name and shame thread on the basis of flipping creating more work for the mods than just reporting the offending posts.
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More mods can be made, the majority of the work can be done by members here on the forum. Doesn't take a mod to research a person's post history. If someone is intentionally deleting every for sale thread and we can't see it, then sure we can ask a mod to take a look.


The thread can be managed by regular members and regular members can research.

As mentioned earlier those staunchly opposed to educating more people to who the flippers are don't have to participate.
 
Babboonbobo said:
Wow, seems extreme! If you don’t like it don’t buy it. This seems a little bit much, so why don’t you just require a dealer membership if an individual sells more than say 6 knives a year or say one a month? If you’ve listed a knife you can list another for 30 days without a dealer membership! Maybe two tiers such as a collector and dealer selling memberships, collector gives you a couple more for those that like to try a knife and move it, dealer for those that......deal!

Is naming and shaming really the kind of presence this forum wants in the knife industry??? I’ve been lurking to decide if I want to spend my money to become a member with more perks but this may turn me away, I’ll see how it’s handled before I pay.
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A person can buy a new knife and sell a knife every day of the year, that doesn't make them a flipper. Flipping isn't defined as the number of knives sold per unit time, but rather by intent to make profit, usually from knives in high demand. And we don't need more membership tiers; gold is already the equivalent of the 'collector' membership you've proposed in the sense that the tier is already unrestricted regarding buying and selling.
 
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I most certainly take (some of) and understand the offence caused by the practice and to some degree how it skirts the forum rules. However, and not in justification, just fact, such things would not occur if there was no market for it. Are the buyers who are getting their limited runs from these sources up in arms or do some see it as a viable source that does not require them to devote their time to trying to score direct ? I don't necessarily disagree with the concept of calling them out but to me it is more about the lack of proper support to the site than the rest. I have certainly paid a small premium for a knife I wanted just a few days after it's limited release, but those $s were actually less than my time would have been worth trying to play the odds of scoring direct.

It is always the most egregious examples that get the torches lit (understandably) but just where do you set the bar ?

Just some additional food for thought.
 
Lance Leon said:
A person can buy a new knife and sell a knife every day of the year, that doesn't make them a flipper. Flipping isn't defined as the number of knives sold per unit time, but rather by intent to make profit, usually from knives in high demand. And we don't need more membership tiers; gold is already the equivalent of the 'collector' membership you've proposed in the sense that the tier is already unrestricted regarding buying and selling.
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I understand and agree about buying one knife a day and selling it, I see how someone could do that as a part of the hobby. I do not know all the intricacies of each level of membership, hence my lurking and learning. I’m thinking I need to keep to myself and let this be after this post!

I buy nice knices fairly often for my collection but only sell once in a great while, usually to friends for what I paid. My understanding is if I would sell a high demand knife for a profit I would be considered a flipper? Is that correct? Because I’m really not understanding all the hatred and anger over this, you know with the whole free market thing?

Sounds like some people are pissed they didn’t get a knife they wanted? Am I wrong?

I think I need to just lurk a little longer to figure out what the deal is with this place!
 
I think this is going down a difficult path to manage. I do understand the frustration of dealing with flippers.

What if I get lucky on a release and get a knife that I realize isn't for me. Can I sell it for cost +$10 to cover shipping and trouble. +$20? +30? ..... +$100? When is that flipping? What if I sell it a month later at +$150? Two months later at +$200? Six months later at +$300? When is that flipping? What if I got two and sold them three months later at +$$$???/

I bought a couple of knives a few years back that I am embarrassed at what I paid for them. Will I be considered a flipper if I try to get a high price for them even though I am taking a loss?

What if I find a "steal" on an auction site, maybe buy-it-now. Can I sell it here for a nice profit even though it isn't ridiculously priced?

What volume and profit margin combination will make them a flipper. What is the line that needs to be crossed. Knives sold per month? Knives sold per release? Etc.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong please . The practice of buying 4,5,6 or more of the exact same knife at one time and coming here and try selling them for a profit is what has people upset, correct ? Its bleeding obvious to a old blind man like me what is happening, its called dealing ,pure and simple.

Name and shame or pay up, their screwing use all .
 
‘I think I need to just lurk a little longer to figure out what the deal is with this place!”

B Babboonbobo The deal with this place is that this specific Forum, the GBU, is the appropriate place to discuss a variety of issues such as what is currently being examined. It is expected that there will be disagreements, none of which has the power to change rules. I would submit that if your decision to stay or leave is based on your experience in the GBU, then you’re missing the big picture. BladeForums has s variety of Forums, catering to the interests of those in the knife community. Most of us care deeply about maintaining an environment free of predators whose only goal is to sell multiples of overpriced knives without a dealers’ membership. At least that’s my idea of what the current topic is.

No one is counting how many knives someone sells, unless they fit the description of the above. Someone who dives in, reads the rules, contributes in a positive manner, is not remotely being discussed here. The general topic of flipping is too difficult to properly define. Narrowing it to the OP’s definition might be a worthy experiment. I think if a list gets formed, we should put a scarlet F on each name, lol.

But seriously...Welcome, lurk to your heart’s content, and then join us.
 
Oh, I won’t base me joining on one area, I just want a feel for the entire sight before I commit. So far seems pretty cool and I’m liking it, just wanting g to understand this thread is all.
 
Airborne 1 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong please . The practice of buying 4,5,6 or more of the exact same knife at one time and coming here and try selling them for a profit is what has people upset, correct ? Its bleeding obvious to a old blind man like me what is happening, its called dealing ,pure and simple.

Name and shame or pay up, their screwing use all .
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No. That's the problem. Nobody likes flippers, but nobody can agree upon exactly what constitutes a flipper. And that's why we shouldn't have a mob enforcing cultural norms against them.

Gosh. Sometimes I think I'm the only person left on the planet who cares about procedural justice.
 
Babboonbobo said:
Oh, I won’t base me joining on one area, I just want a feel for the entire sight before I commit. So far seems pretty cool and I’m liking it, just wanting g to understand this thread is all.
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What they are talking about here is when someone gets in on a limited release (production knives) and buys up a few only to turn around the next day and list them for what is considered an unreasonable profit. They bought the knives for the sole purpose of reselling or flipping . It goes on in high end production, midtech and customs also, but usually only a single knife, but at much greater profit.
They don't like the greed and they don't like the fact that the knife theoretically could have gone to a loving home(maybe theirs :)). Likely time after time they walk away from the releases with nothing while the flipper gets a few. Manufacturers often don't limit purchase to one.
 
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madcap_magician said:
I think this is an extremely ill-advised move to make.

If flipping is going to require a dealer membership, we need to have a definition of flipping. That definition will, like all definitions, have loopholes through which people can evade the rule and also inadvertently catch people who are not really 'flipping' as most people think of it- because all definitions are somewhat arbritrary.

Is buying with an express intent to resell at a profit flipping? I think so. But how do you prove that was the case? Is reselling a limited release at a profit within a month flipping? If so, why is it flipping if you sell 29 days after release and not flipping if you sell it 32 days after release? Is making an excessive profit flipping? If so, what's an excessive profit? Who determines what an 'appropriate' price is, and how are they going to do it?

Without a clear definition and forum rules, this is just another internet mob.
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This. As was noted in the previous thread there are no solid definitions of what a flipper is. Instead there are some definitions proposed by our enthusiastic friends here. I don't see that the proposed definitions have any particular validity. As you noted how many knives? A dozen? How about six? How about three? Why? Who decides?

What kind of time frame? Ten minutes? Ten days? Ten years? Why? Who decides?

How much profit? Ten bucks? Twenty? Fifty? Who decides? Why?

This little Internet posse that is being cobbled together looks like it is going to be using a bunch of arbitrary definitions to go after random members. I wonder how long it will take to lynch the wrong guy...
 
Phixt said:
All I know is my ignore list is growing like crazy right now. Oh, there's another one. A lot of them have excellent feedback ratings, but the lies (I bought four for friends last week and they didn't want, etc.) accompanying the flips is automatic grounds for the ignore button. Well, so are the flips as described by Shiny Edges.

I will say this: You buy a knife ON THE EXCHANGE (including WTB) and you sell the exact knife ON THE EXCHANGE for more money a few days later without disclosing the x-day old original thread, this should be grounds for uber points. It's the TicketMaster strat, kinda.


You just outed yourself twice. Congrats.
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Not too long for it seems...
 
shinyedges said:
The problem is the people who don't like this idea provide no ideas themselves.

I guess they prefer the "do nothing" idea? That's fine, if they want to do nothing, then do nothing.

I think before a name is added to the list a vetting should occur. Several members who volunteer can search post history to find out if they are an exchange only person, do they contribute in other places, do they flip every time a new knife drops, and so forth.

Several members already watch the exchange closely and would volunteer. We have many a retired guys who could and would do this.
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I'm in favor of letting the market dictate the price idea. Capitalism... It works every time it is tried.
 
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Vaporstang said:
I think this is going down a difficult path to manage. I do understand the frustration of dealing with flippers.

What if I get lucky on a release and get a knife that I realize isn't for me. Can I sell it for cost +$10 to cover shipping and trouble. +$20? +30? ..... +$100? When is that flipping? What if I sell it a month later at +$150? Two months later at +$200? Six months later at +$300? When is that flipping? What if I got two and sold them three months later at +$$$???/

I bought a couple of knives a few years back that I am embarrassed at what I paid for them. Will I be considered a flipper if I try to get a high price for them even though I am taking a loss?

What if I find a "steal" on an auction site, maybe buy-it-now. Can I sell it here for a nice profit even though it isn't ridiculously priced?

What volume and profit margin combination will make them a flipper. What is the line that needs to be crossed. Knives sold per month? Knives sold per release? Etc.
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Look at the benchmade 4x series prices now. Over double what they were new.
 
It clearly states in the 3rd post of this thread, the flippers targeted by the name and shame are buying up limited runs and flipping them immediately. The list of flippers IS NOT for everyone who turns a profit on a knife or the guy selling a knife for 2 times what it went for 2 years ago.


It specifically targets the people who buy 3, 4, 5 or more pm2s (for example) and the next week list them for 50, 100, even 120+ dollars more than they sold for.

Those flippers are acting as dealers and helping create the scarcity they need to take advantage of people who want the knife to use.


If someone is labeled as a flipper it's because they immediately tried to flip multiple knives that came out last week or within a few weeks for an exorbitant price.


They stand out and are like clock work after a Sprint run drops.
 
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