New 2022 CRKT... Really?!?

Chronovore

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Alright, friends. I think I made a thread like this last year. Well, this year is even worse! A whole bunch of new CRKT knives just dropped. With all the assisted knives and new versions of the M16, I feel like I've gone back in time by a decade. It looks like 8Cr13Mov is still a thing, but now with astronomical price tags!

Forget that you can get a Civivi or Sencut with better steel (and probably better fit and finish) that'll cut circles around it for less... Why wouldn't we get excited about this little darling in 8Cr13Mov? The street price is only $65!

https://www.bladehq.com/item--CRKT-Curfew-Spring-Assisted-Knife--138959



If that's too expensive, they do have a few $40-something folders in 4116... That'll compete directly with those pesky Sencuts in 9Cr18Mov and D2! Speaking of D2, here's the new premium version of the M16! The street price is only $140! Why mess with WE or other fancy-pants brands that run S35VN or 20CV in that price range? Those knives aren't even assisted! Plus, why mess with titanium when you can get aluminum?

https://www.bladehq.com/item--CRKT-Carson-M16-04DB-Tanto-Dead--138943
 
Since this is only to complain specifically about a knife maker and their products, into single out specific products they find particularly distasteful, shouldn't this be in Whine and Cheese?

There you can bitch to your heart's content about anything and find plenty of folks that are unhappy with anything you can think of that are ready to complain with you.
 
I've always kinda considered CRKT to have cool or interesting designs, and work fine for the average person who are attracted to those designs.

I agree the steel choice is blasé, but I will note that 8cr13mov takes an edge incredibly easy. This can be a good thing for those who don't have access to quality sharpening gear, but can run it against a steeling rod and get it sharp.

They could also be a gateway into purchasing a higher quality knife.
 
Since this is only to complain specifically about a knife maker and their products, into single out specific products they find particularly distasteful, shouldn't this be in Whine and Cheese?

There you can bitch to your heart's content about anything and find plenty of folks that are unhappy with anything you can think of that are ready to complain with you.
Well, since CRKT makes knives (kind of), I think general knife discussion would be the appropriate place to discuss knives
 
I've always kinda considered CRKT to have cool or interesting designs, and work fine for the average person who are attracted to those designs.

I agree the steel choice is blasé, but I will note that 8cr13mov takes an edge incredibly easy. This can be a good thing for those who don't have access to quality sharpening gear, but can run it against a steeling rod and get it sharp.

They could also be a gateway into purchasing a higher quality knife.

They were part of my gateway back in the day, along with Kershaw. The problem is the gateway here is pretty expensive for entry-level. Even some of the knives in 4116 are outlandishly priced versus the current market.

While it is very easy to sharpen 8Cr13Mov on the fly, I don't like having to do it so often. I feel like 14C28N is easy enough to sharpen but a lot better. Coincidentally, the non-premium M16s in this release use 12C27.

The Deadlock M16 has me intrigued. I'll take a good lock over the steel-of-the-week snobbery anytime.

It's not steel-of-the-week snobbery to say that 4116, 8Cr13Mov, and D2 are extremely subpar here versus what so many other companies are offering at those prices.

Look, 8Cr13Mov was great way back when common budget alternatives were AUS-6 and 420J2. (Coincidentally, one of the cheapest knives in this release actually uses 420J2.) Now, the floor has moved up significantly. For the price tags where we see 8Cr13Mov or 4116 here, other companies are offering 14C28N, 9Cr18Mov, or D2. For the price tags where we see D2 here, other companies are offering S35VN.

I don't see where these were manufactured but I'm guessing it was China. If true, the D2 on the premium knives here is Chinese D2. I don't mention that to slight China but because most of the Chinese D2 falls short of the reputation that sells it on actual edge retention. It's certainly better than 8Cr13Mov, and widely available in decent budget knives costing less than the knives in 8Cr13Mov here. It's just not competitive at this price. To prove my point, take the $140 knife in D2 here and do some cut testing against a $40 knife in 9Cr18Mov from Civivi or Sencut...
 
I don't get excited about the steel that CKRT uses, but I love the way they encourage creativity in their knife designers. That's why I own the Provoke, Ritual, CEO, Pilar, and even one of those Minimalist Cleavers. Count me in among those who are interested in the Deadbolt M16. I've previously had some interest in buying an M16 and a CKRT knife with their deadbolt, so this might be what makes me buy my first M16 knife.
 
well the m16 is decently upgraded which is what a lot of people have been asking for many years, you are getting d2 , ikbs, and deadbolt lock
 
I agree with the general consensus that CRKT has very original designs, with models that look different from each other. Compare that with the current line from Civivi and WE Knives that all kind of look the same, and don't even talk about Spyderco and their rainbow knives.

It is too bad that CRKT has chosen to cut costs on material but at least I'm not afraid to use and abuse them.
 
I agree with the general consensus that CRKT has very original designs, with models that look different from each other. Compare that with the current line from Civivi and WE Knives that all kind of look the same, and don't even talk about Spyderco and their rainbow knives.

It is too bad that CRKT has chosen to cut costs on material but at least I'm not afraid to use and abuse them.

I sometimes see this criticism of WE and Civivi. Looking at their offerings from this year, I see a couple of specific places where that might apply. The main one is a common blade shape that was used, with slight variation, across a few different models at different tiers including the Sencut Snap, Civivi Relic, Civivi Cogent, and WE Snick. There are a few models with other elements of design overlap, such as the body of the Ortis and Vagabond or the blade of the Beacon and Saakshi. However, that doesn't mean all their knives look the same.

Look at the WE line-up here, with newest knives first. While variations on each model are listed individually, look at the difference between the models. I see significant difference between models like the Beacon, Arsenal, Snick, Roxi 3, Black Void Opus, Seer, Esprit, Miscreant, Thug, Synergy, etc.


There is some overlap with the Civivi knives but they too offer diversity. Compare the Riffle, Bo, Appalachian Drifter, Baby Banter, etc. Overall, I see a lot of different looks and styles. I see liner locks, frame locks, button locks, and slip-joints with opening methods including flippers, front or top flippers, thumb studs, fullers, and buttons. They don't have as many fixed blades as CRKT and they don't have an axe, but they did release an excellent key-chain torx tool this year.
 
I have a M -16 in AUS8 it’s actually a pretty good knife, it’s my beach fishing knife. I have used it to cut lines, kelp,gut fish and even pried Mussels off of rocks. Not the nicest or most expensive that I own but certainly not sorry I have it . Yes I know those are not the steel’ mentioned but the knife is a keeper
 
Well, they must be doing something right. That M16 deadlock is the first thing they've ever made that I found even slightly interesting...certainly more interesting to me than anything in the WE/Civivi lineup. The price is a bit steep though.
 
I agree with most of Chronovore Chronovore points, yes, these days CRKT should use better steel. With this said, the Curfew lines and composition is much more appealing to the eye than probably 80% of the Civivi
and most of the in house designed knives of WE, at least to me... Considering AO and the bearings, the price tag seems fine on this one.
M16 with the new grind, I like, wouldn't pay $160 for it but on the other hand, if we assume that this is a "tactical" (let's not elaborate if folder can be good for this) knife, any steel, sharp enough to
punch and slice easily through barrier material will do it, the geometry of the blade and handle are much more important. I would prefer to have two guards, because then you can wave naturally this model...
I usually follow Burnley, Mah and Tighe lines from CRKT, along with few other models that catch my eye. The Lany is very nice knife even with the 13moV steel, everything I like is priced below most of the Civivi or WE lines
so I don't really understand what's the issue here...

The Esprit, which is Laconico design, have 20CV and cost you $220, in the same time the equally appealing (to me as a size and form) Liong Mah Lany is only $60...
So is the steel makes the difference, the name of the designer or just WE are exploring the current wave of the Chinese flood of decent knives, marked up because of good craftsmanship ( if you call CNC machining good craftsmanship )
and supposed to be fancy materials and steels ?
I don't know, what I know is that as much as I love Laconico's clean and elegant forms, I won't shell out $260 if I can get Mah's knife for less. In fact most of the knives that he is selling on his site are about $100 or so more than WE Laconico models,
and if I have to choose, I'd go with his knives for little bit more $$ because he is actually manufacturing those, not some Chinese fella on the CNC rig, but this is just me...
Even Kizer's models designed by Laconico are about $100 less than WE sells, why the difference ?
Another example: MBK Swayback, outstanding model, is less than $200 with great design and execution by a Chinese company, why WE would be so expensive ?
Most of the CRKT knives I personally like ( and I perfectly understand that this is subjective but it's my opinion after all) are priced just fine, mostly because of the not so fancy steel they use, their policy I think is to sell volume,
why bother about the steel (materials) if the design is spot on ?
With comparing CRKT to let's say in this case WE and Civivi, looks to me that after all we are moving the point to materials used and execution, not to the design, where the point should be because as I mentioned before in another thread - very few people are buying knife based on sum of materials and price, most of us, I assume, are buying it based on the elements of the knife you find useful. IMO, CRKT have enough good knife makers collaborating on their models that make those more appealing to me, than the other two Chinese companies... Are they good ? Absolutely, no doubt WE and Civivi are producing quality knives.

Looking at the WE and Civivi lineup my only grape, besides some of the prices, is that most of their models are around 3" blade and at least to me this is not usable...
I know, smaller blade is suited better for carry and small everyday jobs, I'm just used to 3.5" blades...
Lots of plain, decent designs from WE, I prefer them over Civivi. But again, they all look the same and no thrill in the models, unless we get to the over $100-$150 line where the foreign designers have WE manufacture their models.
These are knives appealing to people (no offense at all) who like gizmos like ball bearings, easy to produce flipper blades, some CF inlays, some mid-grade steels, non-traditional blade geometry with pointless elements as the finger choil that I love so much on most of the new Chinese made knives, and price below $100. Same people that will tell you that the purpose of the knife is to cut and nothing else...
Beacon, Sentinel and Snik appear very nice, Saakshi and Esprit too. Eidolon is very elegant model but sub 3" blade is just plain nonsense for this knife... Most of them are too small for me, too suited for Gentleman's EDC, and plain or pointless at least to me designs.
There are other, probably legitimate Chinese companies I came across that you can buy on Amazon (well, yes...) that have much more appealing designs and good materials, priced even below $50-$60 where IMO those knives should be.
Google: Sitivien ST102, it has D2 steel, ball bearings, 3.3" blade and natural G10 scales and it sells for the astronomical sum of $28... I personally find it to be much better design than most of the Civivi line...
I actually tagged Chronovore Chronovore in IG with this account, I was curious to hear his opinion on it...

 
I agree with most of Chronovore Chronovore points, yes, these days CRKT should use better steel. With this said, the Curfew lines and composition is much more appealing to the eye than probably 80% of the Civivi
and most of the in house designed knives of WE, at least to me... Considering AO and the bearings, the price tag seems fine on this one.
M16 with the new grind, I like, wouldn't pay $160 for it but on the other hand, if we assume that this is a "tactical" (let's not elaborate if folder can be good for this) knife, any steel, sharp enough to
punch and slice easily through barrier material will do it, the geometry of the blade and handle are much more important. I would prefer to have two guards, because then you can wave naturally this model...
I usually follow Burnley, Mah and Tighe lines from CRKT, along with few other models that catch my eye. The Lany is very nice knife even with the 13moV steel, everything I like is priced below most of the Civivi or WE lines
so I don't really understand what's the issue here...

To be fair, I mostly dug into the extended WE line-up in response to an earlier claim that they "all look the same". My point was that praising or defending CRKT here based on their diversity of offered designs, in contrast to the diversity of designs offered by WE (or some other companies) might not be such a strong point as some people think. Accepting the caveats I offered in that post, I hoped that anyone making such a point would actually go look at the respective line-ups.

As far as knocking Chinese CNC, where and how are all these CRKT knives being made? In another thread, we had an extended discussion about design, named designers versus in-house design teams, etc. and I think everything was covered there. At the end of the day, liking a particular design is totally subjective. I'm not knocking CRKT for the actual designs here. In fact, I'd be very interested in several of them if not for the actual criticisms I made.

To that point: We need to evaluate steels like 8Cr13Mov and Chinese D2 based on their actual performance in actual production knives relative to all of the other steels currently being offered by other companies in knives at similar prices. When we do that, 8Cr13Mov might be a decent value in knives costing less than $30. (Note the sub-$30 knife in Chinese D2 mentioned above.) 8Cr13Mov becomes an increasingly bad deal as the price goes up. At $65, it's laughably bad and probably deserves on of those Picard facepalm memes. The same is true of high-priced knives in Chinese D2. (I'm assuming that all these 2022 CRKT knives were made in China since they didn't specify.)

This was the original reason I brought up the WE brands. There are several Civivi and Sencut knives available between $40 and $60 that use either Chinese D2 or 9Cr18Mov. I could just as easily have mentioned that Sitivien or any of the huge number of knives from other companies that run Chinese D2 for less than the 2022 CRKT knives in 8Cr13Mov or 4116. I specifically chose the Civivi and Sencut knives in 9Cr18Mov for two reasons. First is the exceptional heat treatment. Second is the nice, round, $100 difference. I'll repeat that challenge to anyone who cares: Put a $40 knife in 9Cr18Mov from Civivi or Sencut up against this $140 knife in D2 from CRKT and do some cut testing.
 
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