New 2022 CRKT... Really?!?

Hackenslash said:
I own many WE/CIVIVI knives. They are well made for the price point, but I can’t think of any model I’d consider “innovative”. CRKT offers innovative designs every year.

I think I’ll pick up a CRKT this year.
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I agree, I'm a fanboy and I haven't bought one in about 6 months; they need to realize their designs are getting super stale.

CRKT for me, have designs I REALLY WANT to try...but I know I'll be underwhelmed when I get it. The only one I remotely like is the limited edition Swindle I got from B bort2.0 , even then the knife has quality issues (no fault of the seller, just the knife).

Chronovore Chronovore I take everything from BF, Larrin, Nick Shabazz, etc with a grain of salt. Experts are dime a dozen. No offense meant guys.
 
Hackenslash said:
I own many WE/CIVIVI knives. They are well made for the price point, but I can’t think of any model I’d consider “innovative”. CRKT offers innovative designs every year.

I think I’ll pick up a CRKT this year.
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CRKT seems to collaborate with all sorts of knife designers.
As a matter of fact, Although I only own three CRKT products, (two knives, one tomahawk), they all got designed by someone outside of CRKT.

*The 'Sweet Kiss' was designed by the late Ed Halligan.

*The CRKT Rune was designed by RMJ's Ryan Johnson, (the Rune simply being a production version of RMJ's 'Little Bird' Tomahawk). CRKT seems to have really done a good job at mimicking the original.

*The CRKT KHC, (Karen Hood Chopper), knife designed by Karen Hood.

So, I guess that's why they seem to regularly be able to think outside the box, they relying heavily, if not exclusively, with well known knife designers. That must help in keeping things interesting, but it may also explain why their prices seem a wee bit on the high side of things. They have to pay these designers an amount that keeps them interested in sharing their ideas and names to the CRKT product knife.

As an example of this, the CRKT Karen Hood Chopper had to try and financially feed three major parts of the project....

First would be CRKT themselves.

Secondly would be Karen Hood for the design she put forward, and for the use of her name.

And thirdly, Tops needed to be covered for actually manufacturing the CRKT Karen Hood Chopper product.

It all must have wound up ballooning their MSRP.
 
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Hackenslash said:
I own many WE/CIVIVI knives. They are well made for the price point, but I can’t think of any model I’d consider “innovative”. CRKT offers innovative designs every year.

I think I’ll pick up a CRKT this year.
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This criticism persists but I don't really get it. What exactly counts as "innovative"? Sure, CRKT has a bunch of models and offers substantial variety. They have a novel build that you can take apart without tools and that's neat. So yeah, points for that. However, they're still mostly running what I'd consider to be obsolete materials for high prices. So all that "innovation" largely misses my consideration pool in the first place.

What makes WE (including Civivi and Sencut) especially "stale" or non-innovative versus all the other companies out there? Is it just that they've gotten famous, release a lot of models, or occupy a darling spot on the curve of value, materials, or QC relative to price tag and it draws additional scrutiny?

Sure, they don't offer tomahawks or machetes. They have lots of liner locks and frame locks. However, they offer a pretty good range of those from 9Cr and 10Cr on the low end to S35VN and 20CV on the high end. They've been doing more with button locks and slip joints. They did recently release a larger traditional fixed blade (though I've argued that it doesn't share their usual level of value per price tag). They've also got a decent titanium pry tool, a great key-chain Torx driver, and other assorted doodads.
 
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
I only have two CRKT knives in my eclectic collection of do-dads.
The first one I got was a neck knife called the 'Sweet Kiss'. It's nothing fancy, but it had caught my eye. It's made in China, and was my one and only CRKT representation.

Then, a couple or so years ago, I noticed a deal on a CRKT fixed blade knife called the 'Karen Hood Chopper'. It had a ridiculously high MSRP, but was being sold by Knifecenter at an equally ridiculously low blowout clearance price. The sheath was nothing to brag about, but the knife itself seemed very nicely done. It was made for CRKT by a USA maker, but by who?...
Well, the knife had a certain build quality look to it that seemed very familiar to me. It sure did look like it was a Tops made knife, (my having some other Tops knives in my collection to have noticed that).
I wound up doing a bit of online research on it, and sure enough, it was made in the USA by Tops under CRKT contract. I went back to Knifecenter and purchased it for their great deal of under $100.

Since then, I did pick up another great Knifecenter deal on a CRKT Rune Tomahawk, designed by RMJ Tactical, and made in Taiwan. It only cost me about $45.
Nothing else CRKT has entered my collection of "interesting objects" since that purchase.

But, I'm okay with the few representations I do have of CRKT.

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That's great CRKT shopping!
 
CRKT has always been a source for oddball "fun" knives for me. The Snap Lock, the Hole In One, the Razels, some of the Tighe designs, etc. Beyond that, most of their more standard stuff has not really appealed to me in a long time, given what I can get from their competitors in a similar price range. With the exceptions of the Homefront (which looks pretty conventional but has an oddball easy-to-disassemble mechanism) and the Provoke, it doesn't look like they're doing nearly as much of the fun oddball stuff these days, which makes me sad. I wish they'd step that aspect of their company back up. I have some truly fond memories from back in the day of unboxing my latest weird and wonderful CRKT folder, whether the knife turned out to be a decent knife, just a fidget friendly conversation piece or best of all a combo of both.
 
Well folks, the next wave just dropped! I got the email and took a look. The results weren't great but maybe not a total fail. Here are some highlights at retailer prices and my thoughts about them:

CEO in AUS-8, $50
CEO Compact in 1.4116, $45

These Chinese-made knives are straight fails. This is a competitive price bracket where the Chinese companies are offering steels from the next bracket up. For instance, the early-model Civivi knives and recent Sencut knives in this price range are running 9Cr18Mov, 10Cr15CoMov, and D2. For those who don't know, 10Cr is a Chinese analog of VG-10. The 9Cr from those WE sub-brands is not only a solid step up on its own in both edge retention and corrosion resistance. They also give it an exceptional heat treatment that sets it beyond the 9Cr being offered by other companies at these prices (or lower).

Venandi in 8Cr13Mov, $34
Delineation in 8Cr13Mov, $38

While arguably a less terrible deal at the next level down, this "more of the same" from CRKT is no better of a deal now than it has been in previous years. 8Cr13Mov is a steel that can still shine in knives under $20 if someone is facing a hard budget cap. However, too many companies are offering better options starting in the $20 range, such as D2, 440C, 9Cr18Mov, Acuto 440, 12C27, and even 14C28N.

Assisted M16 in D2, $120

This one is a real face-palm. This is a steel frame-lock at a price where Chinese companies are offering titanium. Assisted knives have their proponents but I tend to view them historically, as an "answer" from back when good manual actions were rarer or much more expensive than they are today. Now, assisted actions feel janky to me and only feel more out of place as the price climbs up. The other fail is that this is probably the same Chinese D2 that we see starting in the $20 range from other companies. Some of those companies, such as Petrified Fish, get a decent heat treatment on it. What kind of heat treatment do we expect from CRKT?

Minimalist in D2, $32

Finally, this one could be a win. The Minimalist series consists of small fixed blades that are easy to carry, on a necklace or otherwise. The running joke in years past had been that they were running them in the abysmal 5Cr15 for $25. In the last year or two, they started making them in 8Cr13Mov and that was a little better. Now we are seeing them in Chinese D2 at regular Chinese D2 prices. So long as the low corrosion resistance isn't an issue for your particular circumstances, this could be a good deal.
 
Well, the M16 D2 in question is made in China so you can expect same HT as the rest of the Chinese and US made blades manufactured in the same factory.

Do we know which one it is so we can question also some Chinese brands ?

On the other hand, feature to feature, there is no Chinese folder of the same size and same profile, using the same materials, not titanium, same type of lock, that cost you $120.
I’m not aware of one and I’m pretty sure you won’t be able to show me one either, so regardless of the steel HT, it’s D2 would be improvement over the previous used steels and alone with the AO (love it or hate it, apples to apples there is no Chinese knife in this price range w AO) and the new Deadlock, the price of $120 seems very good and without better priced Chinese equivalent.
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
Well, the M16 D2 in question is made in China so you can expect same HT as the rest of the Chinese and US made blades manufactured in the same factory.

Do we know which one it is so we can question also some Chinese brands ?

On the other hand, feature to feature, there is no Chinese folder of the same size and same profile, using the same materials, not titanium, same type of lock, that cost you $120.
I’m not aware of one and I’m pretty sure you won’t be able to show me one either, so regardless of the steel HT, it’s D2 would be improvement over the previous used steels and alone with the AO (love it or hate it, apples to apples there is no Chinese knife in this price range w AO) and the new Deadlock, the price of $120 seems very good and without better priced Chinese equivalent.
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I suppose if a person really likes the form factor of the M16, then it might be worth it. It's just disappointing to me that in the current market, such a person isn't given better or more competitive options to satisfy their preferences.

For steel frame locks in decent blade steel (and probably better fit and finish), you could buy both the Civivi Nox in Nitro-V and the Sencut Tynan in 10Cr15CoMov for around the same price as one M16 in D2.
 
We are not talking about personal preferences here, we are comparing feature to feature in the same form factor and price range. I’m sorry but both of your examples have weaker locks, lacking AO and the Nox have much shorter blade, also it is all metal knife. Those examples are not equal to the M16 in question.
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
We are not talking about personal preferences here, we are comparing feature to feature in the same form factor and price range. I’m sorry but both of your examples have weaker locks, lacking AO and the Nox have much shorter blade, also it is all metal knife. Those examples are not equal to the M16 in question.
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To your point, isn't the "deadbolt lock" proprietary? Even if it wasn't, there is a current thread on "lock strength" where I've described some issues with the underlying topic at length. When it comes down to it, whatever extra strength the "deadbolt lock" offers over a steel frame lock seems totally irrelevant to me.

You're right. It is certainly a personal preference. Whether or not the deadbolt lock is worth effectively doubling the price versus the competition for a knife in comparable materials made in the same country (possibly next door) is a personal decision.

Yes, the M16 has a ~3.5" blade while the Nox has a ~3" blade and the Tynan has a ~3.2" blade. Again, whether or not that little bit of extra blade length is worth effectively doubling the price versus the competition is a personal decision. Personally, I'd just skip the whole debate and either spend that $120 on a titanium frame lock in S35VN or spend much less on a liner lock or button lock in another steel that I like better.
 
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Look, you can put it anyway you want to in even longer post but feature to feature, none of your examples matches M16 in question, simple as this. Only one of them have non-metal site, no AO, no stronger lock and only one of them have the same blade length, those are not comparable knives. If you compare those to the cheaper models of M16, they will be in the same price range if not more expensive than the CRKT M16 line and then why purchase those ? The Nox isn’t designed to dig in the dirt as the M16, those are purpose built knives, your examples are target market built knives - cheap titanium frame locks with short blades so they can sell them in more states and pointless finger choils so they can strip more of the edge…
‘Since the Deadlock showed some tests with the lock strength, and none of your examples have such thing done, I will assume that M16 have the stronger lock till I don’t see the Nox and the other folder handling the same weight.
Also how can I be right about something I never said ? The only time I mention personal preference was when I said that it doesn’t matter, not that it is a matter of personal preference, are you sure you’re reading my posts ?
You can spend $120 on Chinese made titanium frame lock, sure, it is a matter of your preference but again, it won’t have the same profile as M16. If the designer of the M16 wanted to make it fully metal, they would do it. For its purpose M16 does not need titanium frame lock.
Except the newer models that you picked and that are more expensive, the whole M16 line is within $50-$60 some price range, totally comparable to any Chinese knife with the same size and profile. Too bad they aren’t any of those… 😂
 
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In all seriousness, I dont think CRKT is worth the time. Some of the exclusives are nice, but they make some...interesting business decisions.

The D2 minimalist is nice. SMKW already did one that I really like.

Cheers
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
Look, you can put it anyway you want to in even longer post but feature to feature, none of your examples matches M16 in question, simple as this. Only one of them have non-metal site, no AO, no stronger lock and only one of them have the same blade length, those are not comparable knives. If you compare those to the cheaper models of M16, they will be in the same price range if not more expensive than the CRKT M16 line and then why purchase those ? The Nox isn’t designed to dig in the dirt as the M16, those are purpose built knives, your examples are target market built knives - cheap titanium frame locks with short blades so they can sell them in more states and pointless finger choils so they can strip more of the edge…
‘Since the Deadlock showed some tests with the lock strength, and none of your examples have such thing done, I will assume that M16 have the stronger lock till I don’t see the Nox and the other folder handling the same weight.
Also how can I be right about something I never said ? The only time I mention personal preference was when I said that it doesn’t matter, not that it is a matter of personal preference, are you sure you’re reading my posts ?
You can spend $120 on Chinese made titanium frame lock, sure, it is a matter of your preference but again, it won’t have the same profile as M16. If the designer of the M16 wanted to make it fully metal, they would do it. For its purpose M16 does not need titanium frame lock.
Except the newer models that you picked and that are more expensive, the whole M16 line is within $50-$60 some price range, totally comparable to any Chinese knife with the same size and profile. Too bad they aren’t any of those… 😂
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🤦‍♂️My bad. I didn't notice that the M16 in question had an aluminum handle. I looked quickly and thought it was steel. Sorry for the confusion!

So I had only been comparing it to vastly superior deals in steel frame locks. I don't know what the aluminum-handled pool looks like. I'm predisposed to not caring about aluminum handles at this or half the price due my own personal preferences. If I'm comparing it instead to the entire pool of current knives from brands like Civivi/Sencut, Kizer, Ruike, Real Steel, Artisan/CJRB, Bestech, TwoSun, Petrified Fish, et al... a single truth emerges.

The main bullet point, and hopefully we can now lay this dialogue to rest, is that the overwhelming majority of these new CRKT knives are significantly overpriced for the materials used relative to the bulk of other Chinese-made knives from many other companies.
 
Chronovore said:
Well folks, the next wave just dropped! I got the email and took a look. The results weren't great but maybe not a total fail. Here are some highlights at retailer prices and my thoughts about them:

CEO in AUS-8, $50
CEO Compact in 1.4116, $45

These Chinese-made knives are straight fails. This is a competitive price bracket where the Chinese companies are offering steels from the next bracket up. For instance, the early-model Civivi knives and recent Sencut knives in this price range are running 9Cr18Mov, 10Cr15CoMov, and D2. For those who don't know, 10Cr is a Chinese analog of VG-10. The 9Cr from those WE sub-brands is not only a solid step up on its own in both edge retention and corrosion resistance. They also give it an exceptional heat treatment that sets it beyond the 9Cr being offered by other companies at these prices (or lower).

Venandi in 8Cr13Mov, $34
Delineation in 8Cr13Mov, $38

While arguably a less terrible deal at the next level down, this "more of the same" from CRKT is no better of a deal now than it has been in previous years. 8Cr13Mov is a steel that can still shine in knives under $20 if someone is facing a hard budget cap. However, too many companies are offering better options starting in the $20 range, such as D2, 440C, 9Cr18Mov, Acuto 440, 12C27, and even 14C28N.

Assisted M16 in D2, $120

This one is a real face-palm. This is a steel frame-lock at a price where Chinese companies are offering titanium. Assisted knives have their proponents but I tend to view them historically, as an "answer" from back when good manual actions were rarer or much more expensive than they are today. Now, assisted actions feel janky to me and only feel more out of place as the price climbs up. The other fail is that this is probably the same Chinese D2 that we see starting in the $20 range from other companies. Some of those companies, such as Petrified Fish, get a decent heat treatment on it. What kind of heat treatment do we expect from CRKT?

Minimalist in D2, $32

Finally, this one could be a win. The Minimalist series consists of small fixed blades that are easy to carry, on a necklace or otherwise. The running joke in years past had been that they were running them in the abysmal 5Cr15 for $25. In the last year or two, they started making them in 8Cr13Mov and that was a little better. Now we are seeing them in Chinese D2 at regular Chinese D2 prices. So long as the low corrosion resistance isn't an issue for your particular circumstances, this could be a good deal.
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The CEO is a good concept, but there's a number of similar knives out there who execute the idea better, like the MKM Flame or Boker Quaiken. The CEO is much less inexpensive though. With the exception of the Carson M16 series and a few others (Provoke, Ritual, and Pilar), most of the CRKT selection just looks like you go to a nicer gas station to get your knives. There are certainly a lot of just for fun designs and most of the Minimilist knife series (I haven't handled the D2 version) are pretty safe for kids to handle unsupervised kind of sharp out of the box. I'd like to pick up one of the new M16 knives with better steel and Deadbolt lock, but for that much or not much more money I can get a very good fixed blade knife.
 
The Grendels said:
The CEO is a good concept, but there's a number of similar knives out there who execute the idea better, like the MKM Flame or Boker Quaiken. The CEO is much less inexpensive though. With the exception of the Carson M16 series and a few others (Provoke, Ritual, and Pilar), most of the CRKT selection just looks like you go to a nicer gas station to get your knives. There are certainly a lot of just for fun designs and most of the Minimilist knife series (I haven't handled the D2 version) are pretty safe for kids to handle unsupervised kind of sharp out of the box. I'd like to pick up one of the new M16 knives with better steel and Deadbolt lock, but for that much or not much more money I can get a very good fixed blade knife.
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That's another thing. Once you get up over $100, it isn't just all the nicer Chinese knives in better materials. At $120, this assisted M16 in Chinese D2 is directly up against American-made knives from companies like Benchmade and Spyderco in steels like S30V.

This will be different for everybody but at least for me, when I think of the style or flavor of the M16, it exists in the same space as some of those offerings from Spyderco. It would scratch the same kind of itch for me. I know if the choice is between a bunch of knives from Spdyderco and some janky assisted knife that comes with questions regarding both QC and fit/finish, and a questionable blade steel with a heat treatment that probably isn't much better than what I can find on a knife that costs a fourth as much...

I'd really need to be a fan of the M16 and even then... I'd have to be shopping at Walmart or something and not be plugged into the deeper hobby online.
 
CRKT has been overpriced garbage for more than 15 years in my opinion. I was disappointed when Ken Onion left KAI for them. None of his models are made in USA now. I love many of Brian Tighe's designs, even owned a custom, but the CRKT collabs I've handled had terrible fit and finish, especially for the price and materials.

Any "premium" offering they've had was made for them by Lionsteel. Not a good sign.
 
Chronovore said:
So I had only been comparing it to vastly superior deals in steel frame locks
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But they are not. Nobody cares about “the deals” in steel frame locks when you can’t compare them feature to feature.
‘The M16 D2 steel you’re keep trashing is the same Chinese steel used in bunch of other should-be-superior Chinese folders, so when we’re commenting on those it is well HT-ed but when we’re commenting the M16 D2 steel it is of unknown quality. This is funny…
And when you compare the cheaper M16 line with the same features, the “superiority” evaporates. Your examples are not even match to the M16 design with the dumb finger choils and size, and not “vastly superior” locks.
‘Either way, you are so obviously biased about those Chinese knives that it don’t make sense to carry this conversation, especially after the comment about Walmart purchases, it’s another projection… :cool::thumbsup:
 
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