New 2022 CRKT... Really?!?

[DocJD]

My actual experience of CRKT is with older models that I thought were interesting and wanted to try , but only bought when I could find a bargain .

Never got anything expensive from them , because the cheaper stuff never failed to disappoint in the actual build quality .

Why trust them for something expensive ?

Lots of intriguing , innovative ideas and designs ...but poor follow thru in quality and function of their actual products .

If all you care about is the novel idea / design , no reason not to buy CRKT at their inflated prices .

 

[Angus McGunnigle]

Yeah……..maybe……….but my Humdinger is…..a….humdinger

 

[jeffsenpai]

I am always pretty excited for CKRTs lineup each year. There are always a few knives that grab my attention. I will for sure be buying the Venandi. Classic slipjoint lines? yes, please.

The Curfew looks nice as well

The Ripsnort II looks intriguing, I like the profile of this more than the original.

And the Mah-Hawk has a interesting shape.

I am not too focused on the materials. I like the designs.
I will, however, keep an eye out in case CRKT does any limited runs of the above mentioned knives with higher end materials.

They have done so with certain models in the past, such as they did with the CRKT Tuna in S35VN and titanium:

 

[shinyedges]

Since this is only to complain specifically about a knife maker and their products, into single out specific products they find particularly distasteful, shouldn't this be in Whine and Cheese?

There you can bitch to your heart's content about anything and find plenty of folks that are unhappy with anything you can think of that are ready to complain with you.

Wow, show me on the doll where someone there touched you

 

[shinyedges]

I'm interested in the dead bolt lock as well. When are they supposed to drop?

 

[shinyedges]

I had crkt m16 liner lock like 12 years ago, not a fan of the liner lock. These bladeshapes with the dead bolt lock have peaked my interest though.

Pretty damn impressive with the abuse the lock took. He beat that sucker WAY harder than a folder needs to take.

It got praise from demko as well!

 

[Silent H]

I am always pretty excited for CKRTs lineup each year. There are always a few knives that grab my attention. I will for sure be buying the Venandi. Classic slipjoint lines? yes, please.

I enjoy seeing their lineup every year too, especially because they usually work with some great custom makers to make affordable versions of their knives. I'm really digging the Richard Rogers knives lately, and the Venandiis a must buy for me this year.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I had crkt m16 liner lock like 12 years ago, not a fan of the liner lock. These bladeshapes with the dead bolt lock have peaked my interest though. View attachment 1713985

Pretty damn impressive with the abuse the lock took. He beat that sucker WAY harder than a folder needs to take.

It got praise from demko as well!

I think I'll try to snag a Inazuma No Ken for a decent price. I haven't picked up an A/O folder since my M390 and carbon fiber Knockout and I like James Williams' designs, that will give me a new A/O to play with, a new lock to play with and a design I dig, so that sounds fairly worth it to me.

 

[Quiet]

Another year, another CRKT lineup of new products consisting of basement-level materials, what will no doubt be questionable fit and finish, and some neat designs I'd actually try out if the first and second issues weren't present. Yet another year CRKT will receive no money from me.

Ah well.

EDIT: Just clicked through to BHQ and saw some of the prices. Wooooow...some serious clownshoes going on there with a few of those models.

 

[dirc]

yeah, I've not been interested in crkt since they started racing to the cheapest steel & higher map pricing a few years back...

as you said, 4116 is a pretty poor steel, I don't know what they think they're going to get away with, but obviously some 'marketing' guy there decided to try selling 4116 at regular (highish map) pricing

I doubt any bf members will reward them, but maybe there are enough uneducated people who will support their transition to cheap materials with high map pricing??

... maybe their plan all along was to try to sell 4116 at full price, and then discount the map pricing to half after a year or 2?


.... fwiw, even companies like kershaw are trying this, since they started using 4cr13 in many low end models
(I'm not buying any of those either lol) sometimes marketing people refuse to use common sense, only reality will put them in check

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

I don't have much time tonight so here it is:

My point was that praising or defending CRKT here based on their diversity of offered designs, in contrast to the diversity of designs offered by WE (or some other companies) might not be such a strong point as some people think.

Why not ? Model to model, CRKT have much more models and diversity that WE and Civivi put together. It's fact, I checked on all three websites this morning - on one of the pages CRKT have 20 different designs,
not a model with 4 options of handles and such, 20 different designs, clearly stating who is the designer.
Whatever WE and Civivi have are not even close to this number.
Another fact - CRKT isn't using only 13Mov type of steel on its lower end knives. They have also Sandvic and other steels. Yes, they are more expensive but there are different steels used.
On the other hand, most of the better than D2 steels used by the two mentioned Chinese companies are on much more expensive models.
I'd say, lets not cherry pick whatever suits the conversation, picking up the M16 as truly expensive CRKT model with inferior steel, and comparing it to the two other companies with D2 steel models doesn't seems fair.

We need to evaluate steels like 8Cr13Mov and Chinese D2 based on their actual performance in actual production knives relative to all of the other steels currently being offered by other companies in knives at similar prices.

Ok, I agree completely. I like to stress it out, that I completely agree with some of your points and not trying to argue, I'm looking at this as a conversation and really don't care if I'll convince you in something or not...
Still, what's the base of your other quote then, that " Civivi or Sencut with better steel (and probably better fit and finish) that'll cut circles around it for less..."
Everything with better steel will cut circles around inferior steel, isn't it ?

I don't see any standardized tests, where two similar geometry blades with same cutting edge angle and similar behind the edge thickness will be put to test. Can you produce one ?
I don't think so, you'd do it by now, I assume but I could be wrong of course.

(Note the sub-$30 knife in Chinese D2 mentioned above.) 8Cr13Mov becomes an increasingly bad deal as the price goes up. At $65, it's laughably bad

Well, again, I don't want to argue with you or anybody in this matter, but the statement is debatable. CRKT at $65 is a normal deal,
I wouldn't call it good but it's OK considering the looks of the knife, elements, purpose and materials and mechanics.
That's why I brought up the designer question and I explained very clearly why it's important to know who is behind the design.
That's why, a CRKT knife with inferior steel is $65 and Civivi knife with another supposed to be better D2 steel is $30.

So I'll ask you again what's your priority when you're picking up your new knife - the look and the elements that the knife maker put together or the materials and craftsmanship ?
To use the exact same knife you're criticizing from CRKT - lets say, you're picking up a budget Gentleman's folder, what's your priority - looks of the knife or better steel ?
If you can answer this without going into the magical HT of the low end Chinese steels and other non-related to the question things,
we will get exactly to the point why the CRKT is $65 and NoDesignerName Civivi model is $30, even with (arguably) better steel.

 

[DocJD]

I don't have much time tonight so here it is:

Why not ? Model to model, CRKT have much more models and diversity that WE and Civivi put together. It's fact, I checked on all three websites this morning - on one of the pages CRKT have 20 different designs,
not a model with 4 options of handles and such, 20 different designs, clearly stating who is the designer.
Whatever WE and Civivi have are not even close to this number.
Another fact - CRKT isn't using only 13Mov type of steel on its lower end knives. They have also Sandvic and other steels. Yes, they are more expensive but there are different steels used.
On the other hand, most of the better than D2 steels used by the two mentioned Chinese companies are on much more expensive models.
I'd say, lets not cherry pick whatever suits the conversation, picking up the M16 as truly expensive CRKT model with inferior steel, and comparing it to the two other companies with D2 steel models doesn't seems fair.

Ok, I agree completely. I like to stress it out, that I completely agree with some of your points and not trying to argue, I'm looking at this as a conversation and really don't care if I'll convince you in something or not...
Still, what's the base of your other quote then, that " Civivi or Sencut with better steel (and probably better fit and finish) that'll cut circles around it for less..."
Everything with better steel will cut circles around inferior steel, isn't it ?

I don't see any standardized tests, where two similar geometry blades with same cutting edge angle and similar behind the edge thickness will be put to test. Can you produce one ?
I don't think so, you'd do it by now, I assume but I could be wrong of course.

Well, again, I don't want to argue with you or anybody in this matter, but the statement is debatable. CRKT at $65 is a normal deal,
I wouldn't call it good but it's OK considering the looks of the knife, elements, purpose and materials and mechanics.
That's why I brought up the designer question and I explained very clearly why it's important to know who is behind the design.
That's why, a CRKT knife with inferior steel is $65 and Civivi knife with another supposed to be better D2 steel is $30.

So I'll ask you again what's your priority when you're picking up your new knife - the look and the elements that the knife maker put together or the materials and craftsmanship ?
To use the exact same knife you're criticizing from CRKT - lets say, you're picking up a budget Gentleman's folder, what's your priority - looks of the knife or better steel ?
If you can answer this without going into the magical HT of the low end Chinese steels and other non-related to the question things,
we will get exactly to the point why the CRKT is $65 and NoDesignerName Civivi model is $30, even with (arguably) better steel.

I've never bought or even handled a WE product , but their reputation is excellent for QC and HT for any given steel at a very good value price .

This is the exact opposite of my experience with CRKT . The steel formula means nothing without a PROPER and consistent (not magical ) HT .

CRKT is famous for their dismal QC and hit or miss HT .

If you just want to buy a cool design to display, fondle , fidget , or take a photo ; and don't care about a truly reliable and long term performance or value ...CRKT is there for you !

 

[Chronovore]

yeah, I've not been interested in crkt since they started racing to the cheapest steel & higher map pricing a few years back...

as you said, 4116 is a pretty poor steel, I don't know what they think they're going to get away with, but obviously some 'marketing' guy there decided to try selling 4116 at regular (highish map) pricing

I doubt any bf members will reward them, but maybe there are enough uneducated people who will support their transition to cheap materials with high map pricing??

... maybe their plan all along was to try to sell 4116 at full price, and then discount the map pricing to half after a year or 2?


.... fwiw, even companies like kershaw are trying this, since they started using 4cr13 in many low end models
(I'm not buying any of those either lol) sometimes marketing people refuse to use common sense, only reality will put them in check

I literally laughed out loud on the conspiracy suggestion.

I've knocked Kershaw for this kind of thing in the past but I think this year's CRKT line-up wins the booby prize. Past speculation has included the protection these brands enjoy in the Big Box stores. The Chinese brands offering better steels at much better prices (often with same or better fit and finish) just aren't there to compete at Dick's, Cabela's, or the sporting goods counter at Walmart.

I checked out the knife counter at my closest Walmart shortly before Christmas. The competition pool for Chinese-made budget knives seemed to top out with 8Cr13Mov. I also saw 7Cr17, 5Cr15, unspecified 440, and "stainless steel". Lots of knives were assisted. Several were tip-down only. After some discussion, the employee asked what I was carrying. I handed him my Civivi Riffle. He was impressed and asked where I got it. He considered himself a "knife guy" but had never even heard of Civivi.

 

[Chronovore]

I don't have much time tonight so here it is...

The earlier point was just that WE and its subsidiaries don't "all look the same", do have different designs, and do work with a variety of named designers in addition to their unnamed in-house team. (BTW, my favorite $30 Chinese knife in D2 is the PF 818. It was designed by David Chen and his signature is stamped on the clip.) I don't dispute that CRKT has a bunch of different products, some interesting designs, or novel features like the deadbolt lock. Like I said before, I'd be very interested to try some of them if I saw any value in their material quality relative to their price. Effectively, it doesn't matter how novel a design is if it never makes it into my selection pool in the first place.

To put it another way, I'm a knife and gear enthusiast who lives in a world where brands like Kizer, Ruike, Real Steel, Bestech, Petrified Fish, Civivi and Sencut exist. Given what those and other brands are offering at comparable prices, how can I justify dropping that kind of cash for the materials being offered by CRKT here?!?

I use the term "cut circles around" to describe the degree of difference in performance between 8Cr13Mov and steels like 9Cr18Mov, 14C28N, and D2. While my own anecdotal experiences with these steels might not be worth much, there are dedicated cut-testers out there. While any cut tester is testing a given steel under a particular set of conditions, it can be valuable data. My favorite is Outpost 76. He sharpens each knife the same way on a KME to 15 dps. He cuts the same media using a taped-off 1" section of blade. He resharpens and repeats until the results are statistically repeatable.

As far as what I look for; design, aesthetics, ergonomics, and other factors such as how a knife might fit into my EDC rotation all matter. From there, I'm going to look at the stats. I'm certainly going to look at the materials and weigh them relative to the price. That's the major fail here. As someone who has carried a few CRKT knives over the years, watching them fall so far behind and fail to get even one new knife into my selection pool makes me a little sad.

 

[LimpCroissant]

Hmmm, I've got to say that I haven't really paid much attention to CRKT after I started learning about the properties of different steels and materials in knife making about 15 years ago. However, there catalog is usually fun to look at because they tend to push the boundaries on their designs and come out with some pretty innovative stuff! The first knife I bought with my own money was an M16 and I was sooo happy to have gotten it! But ever since I got it I realized something was a little off about, I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it was the fact that it wasn't american made and to my young mind that immediately put it in the "others" category. I still really struggle with accepting that China has come so far and is actually making some amazing knives with awesome materials and fit and finish. I have my first Civivi coming in a few days so I'll see what's up when it gets here.

One thing I've always thought would be awesome, for like 10 years now, is a Ti framelock version of the M16 in a premium steel. I know they have the Ti scale ones but I'd like a framelock.

 

[soc_monki]

The only crkt I have is a Caligo. I thought it looked cool, and it's a fun little knife. It was $35 I think, and worth it to me. Nice hollow grind. They ceased being a good value when they went up to over $40 (with 8cr13mov). Still, I carry and use mine occasionally, but haven't bought any more crkts because they have never impressed me with materials and workmanship for the price. Most are good, solid knives, but for the prices they are commanding the value is low imo.

Lower prices, or better materials and workmanship. But, I'm not a businessman and I'm sure they sell a lot of clamshells...

 

[Billy The Blade]

I agree that the pricepoint should reflect on the
the materials used. Fit/Function, heat treat, etc.
It appears, as mentioned, that they market to the
masses of 'mostly' non 'knife people'...maybe.
The majority of the C.R.K.T. knives in my collection are old school, with discontinued models as well.
I actually have a fondness for the M16 series,
I especially like the large ones with the auto L.A.W.K.S. secondary locking system.
My most recent 'modern' C.R.K.T. knife purchase was a small Pilar with the G-10 & Stainless scales. I happened to pick it up in a small lot,
so it was a good time to try a cleaver styled blade. Being a smaller knife, the ample finger choil makes it a good fit for larger hands.
I like it.
I like the looks of the Curfew & the Mah-Hawk,
It would have been nice to incorporate the new 'Deadbolt' locking system in these models, however.
B.T.B.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

$60+ for 8Cr? Only Spyderco is allowed to do that.

 

[C_L_I_C_K]

My first decent pocketknife was the M16, then the original Shenanigan. I haven't bought a CRKT knife since those 2 knives, well over a decade ago.

It's a shame that CRKT hasn't felt the need to improve the blade steel and handle materials they use on their knives and kept prices competitive with Chinese manufacturers like Civivi and Kizer. I would love to buy a new CRKT but the value just isn't there.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

The earlier point was just that WE and its subsidiaries don't "all look the same", do have different designs, and do work with a variety of named designers in addition to their unnamed in-house team.

As I mentioned few times, I really share some of your opinions. What I don't like however, is the fact that in the quote above you didn't add the rest of my sentence - "...in my opinion"
or whatever in this line I repeatedly was saying. It changes the rhetoric's and doesn't look like I'm generally trashing the mentioned Chinese companies.
With this said, they cannot have more variety than CRKT in out example, simply because the number of their models is less than the one of CRKT. This was my point and it is a fact, not opinion.
Also, it just helps for the conversation to know that you are finally pointing to a Chinese knife designer of your choice, even he is working for PF and not for the WE and Civivi we were originally talking about, you gave those examples.
And here are two kind of controversial quotes:

I'd be very interested to try some of them if I saw any value in their material quality relative to their price.

Ok, but when you answered my question, I see the priority is set differently:

As far as what I look for; 1.) design, aesthetics, ergonomics, and other factors such as how a knife might fit into my EDC rotation all matter. 2.) From there, I'm going to look at the stats. I'm certainly going to look at the materials and weigh them relative to the price.

Well, exactly my point, I 'll do the same with almost every knife I buy - you will look at the design before you look at materials, your priority would be how suitable the particular design will be,
according to your needs and only after this you will look at materials and craftsmanship and will decide if you want the knife or not. That's why I was pressing so much for answer about the designers of your choice in WE ( specifically)
So in this regard, lets use the same example you gave us in your first post, the CRKT Curfew - the $65 have much better forms and mechanics than any of the Civivi knives and even with the 13Mov steel, the price is bearable and absolutely nothing shocking, IMO - or deserving a new thread trashing the brand. Of course you are right about the steels used by CRKT and the Chinese brands, but again - everything below D2 in the Chinese knives is nothing so much better than the 13Mov used by CRKT. They might be good, but nothing exceptional or close to S30V for example, that goes in the higher end of the Chinese knives and they are much more expensive than the higher end of CRKT ( in question)
I'm also following Stassa 73, his tests are fine but I much prefer more scientific approach. They are good for those steels but for something at the higher end, I wouldn't look at the Tube for "facts"... I would look at Larrin's info and will compare it with my own experience with particular steel, this is the only correct comparing in my case.

I'm not going to ask you to show me WE or Civivi knife that is better looking and with better steel, cheaper than the Curfew, because this is not a conversation I really want to continue, and just as you said, it depends of persons own criteria...
But the fact is that there is a trend of over exaggeration of the designs of the new Chinese brands along with the materials use, I'm specifically talking about the low shelf models, below $100-$60. They are good knives, I'll say it again - no doubt about it. But they are nothing exceptional or excited as you sounds like. They are good quality, inexpensive knives, priced right, using below average steels. Knives you buy, trash and replace in year or two. Pretty much as the CRKT and Kershaw lines, I think but of course I could be mistaking.
It's good to have those of course because they give you some options and variety, but if you care about the US made knives, as large enough number users do, they will spend only few more bucks and will get a CRKT or Kershaw with slightly inferior steel, again - because most people are buying knives because of the look and design, before they care about steel.
I also share most of the opinions about CRKT, I also don't like the lower grade steel or most of the models. But their designers are much more recognizable than the one working with WE and Civivi, this is also fact. And the fact is that all of my CRKT and Kershaw knives, with very few exceptions, are working just fine for years and even I like much higher grade steel, I'm happy with their TO.