New owners of Schrade

afishhunter said:
Sorry for the delay in answering.

I based the edge retention on the only thing that really matters.
Real world use over a period of years.

As for blade geometry ... That does make a difference. However, both my US made and Taylor Made were sharpened on the same Smith's guided rod sharpener, using the 20° slots.
So the geometry on both is the same.

(1095 of the US Old Timer vs Stainless of the Taylor Made:
Irrelevant in this case.
My US Made 6OT and and 7OT both have "Schrade +" tang stamps, so have Schrade's 440A(?) stainless.
My two Taylor Made 7OT's have "440A" etched on the blade.)
Click to expand...

The thing about comparing steels based on real world use is that it doesn't give you an accurate reading of which steel may be superior or inferior, because there are no controls all you get is random results. If you take steel A and compare it to steel B by cutting 50 slices of rope and compare which did better in one session all you are really doing is showing the variance that is in the rope rather than the steel. You could do the same thing again and have totally different results the next time. It's just random, and everyday cutting is even more random than that.

What real world use can tell you about steel is if a particular type will be sufficient and practical to use, in which case the taylors seem to work fine.
 
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It seems to me, compared to Case,Boker, and the like Schrade/Old Timer was always was more budget friendly. Especially the delrin sawcut OT's. I'm not talking about the Schrade Walden and earlier stuff. I'm talking about 70's 80's 90's when I was a kid. Even back then OT ran 1/2 the price of a Case. I bought a 950T/120T combo pack for 20 bucks. Good solid working knives. The lowest price I've seen on a yellow delrin Case trapper, $38.95 to nicer jigged bone ones going on up into the $60's. Lets be honest here,functionally speaking, can the Case do anything the OT can't? Do I want a Case trapper? Hell yes, but I have limited funds for knife collecting. So for now that blueberry bone Case trapper is gonna have to wait. 3 months ago I owned 1 traditional, now I have 14. All that were bought new are "budget" friendly, but high on quality imho. As a reminder the girl sold me the displays of the OT's, becaus they sell out quickly. At the end of the day, more people buying traditional knives, ain't that a GOOD thing?o_OSorry for the long post y'all.
 
I bought 3 Taylor Brands a couple months ago to give them out as gifts to nephews; a Imperial cracked ice trapper, an 8OT and a 897UH. The trapper was the worst of the bunch but the 897UH and 8OT were decent knives. In fact I kept the 8OT for my use in the garage... it has been a good user.

I think the main thing Taylor was guilty of was brand misrepresentation... using an established legendary name like Schrade to push their own / new product that has nothing to do with the original product; that is the part that burns the traditional Schrade enthusiast. If Taylor had gone out on their own and started XYZ Knives, they would've been out of business in 2 years so they did what they had to do to sell knives. Unfortunately brand misrepresenting has been going on for many years and was perpetuated by one or two instigators that knew how to do it best. It would be nice if they at least put an asterisk by the name LoL.:D Klaas* is not Klaas, Hen & Rooster* is not Hen & Rooster and Schrade* is not Schrade :thumbsup:

So as far as the original post, to a Schrade traditionalist... it is apples to oranges; if you want a Schrade then you need to go to online auctions or to a flea market or an antique mall and get yourself an original 897UH or an 8OT. However if you want a Schrade*, you can get those on Amazon or at Walmart and likely will have a good user knife. :)

-Edits in red
 
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Misplaced Hillbilly Misplaced Hillbilly
@Ramrodmb

Taylor Schrade used two different blade steels for their pocket knives.
Their web site, which has been taken down now that they have been purchased, was quite open about it.

The bone handled Schrades were 9Cr17 blade steel, which is pretty close to 440C
The plastic handled Schrades were 7Cr17, which extremely close to 440A.

I did some side by side testing cutting manila rope between the Taylor Schrade with 7Cr7 and a Case in Tru-Sharp. Same bevel angle on each, sharpened with a Sharpmaker. The Schrade held an edge better than the Case.

You can pooh-pooh all you want. The Taylor Schrade knives I have are decent.
Taylor was in the cutlery business for decades, long before they bought Schrade.
What the knives will become under Smith and Wesson is an open question.
 
knarfeng knarfeng
The 950T/120T combo I got the other day is marked BTI on the box, which is the S&W division. Although I have no idea if they just rebranded the box, and I have Taylor brand leftovers or this is soley BTI . I sincerely hope this is how BTI's will be. If so its a really good knife. Thanks for the info.
 
TheChunk91 said:
The thing about comparing steels based on real world use is that it doesn't give you an accurate reading of which steel may be superior or inferior, because there are no controls all you get is random results. If you take steel A and compare it to steel B by cutting 50 slices of rope and compare which did better in one session all you are really doing is showing the variance that is in the rope rather than the steel. You could do the same thing again and have totally different results the next time. It's just random, and everyday cutting is even more random than that.

What real world use can tell you about steel is if a particular type will be sufficient and practical to use, in which case the taylors seem to work fine.
Click to expand...
Any test cutting one specific thing only gives a valid results to those who only cut that same material.
Yes. Some things are harder on an edge than other things. Sitting across the grain of oak is going to dull the edge faster than cutting across the grain of balsa.
I don't cut just one thing. I cut a variety of things. The real world useage IMHO is better than any controlled test. The average person will not be using their knife under the same conditions as the test conditions.
 
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afishhunter said:
Any test cutting one specific thing only gives a valid results to those who only cut that same material.
Yes. Some things are harder on an edge than other things. Sitting across the grain of oak is going to dull the edge faster than cutting across the grain of balsa.
I don't cut just one thing. I cut a variety of things. The real world useage IMHO is better than any controlled test. The average person will not be using their knife under the same conditions as the test conditions.
Click to expand...

All I'm trying to say is this; if you are claiming one steel has better edge retention than the other and the basis for your claim is in uncontrolled random cutting the results you are seeing are the variation in the things you are cutting (and also could be from how you sharpen the knife, more on that below), not so much the variation between the steel.

When you sharpen do you drag the edge on a coarse stone to cut off the weakened steel and start fresh? Do you minimize the burr as you sharpen? Raising a burr is very bad as it fatigues the edge, lowering retention and increasing how easy it is to damage the edge. The more a knife is sharpened without doing a "fresh start" the weaker the edge becomes because finer stones, steels and strops bend the edge back into place instead of cutting off the weak steel. Because of this you can end up with a very weak edge over a period of many sharpenings, so the steel may seem to lack in edge retention but it's just because it needs to be cut off and start fresh.
 
veitsi_poika said:
I bought 3 Taylor Brands a couple months ago to give them out as gifts to nephews; a Imperial cracked ice trapper, an 8OT and a 897UH. The trapper was the worst of the bunch but the 897UH and 8OT were decent knives. In fact I kept the 8OT for my use in the garage... it has been a good user.

I think the main thing Taylor was guilty of was brand misrepresentation... using an established legendary name like Schrade to push their own / new product that has nothing to do with the original product; that is the part that burns the traditional Schrade enthusiast. If Taylor had gone out on their own and started XYZ Knives, they would've been out of business in 2 years so they did what they had to do to sell knives. Unfortunately brand misrepresenting has been going on for many years and was perpetuated by one or two instigators that knew how to do it best. It would be nice if they at least put an asterisk by the name LoL.:D Klaas* is not Klaas, Hen & Rooster* is not Hen & Rooster and Schrade* is not Schrade :thumbsup:

So as far as the original post, to a Schrade traditionalist... it is apples to oranges; if you want a Schrade then you need to go to online auctions or to a flea market or an antique mall and get yourself an original 897UH or an 8OT. However if you want a Schrade*, you can get those on Amazon or at Walmart and likely will have a good user knife. :)

-Edits in red
Click to expand...

Excellent post and agreed. I have no problem with the Taylor branded knives or other quality Chinese knives like rough riders. I own a couple of them.

For their price point, they are nice knives. Function fine.

What irritates me as a collector of Schrade USA knives is the desception and misrepresentation that some sellers on the auction sites resort to sell them by riding the coat tails of the legacy Schrade USA left behind.

Packaging then in original boxes or tubes that were bought up after the factory closed.

I'm just thankful they are fairly easy to spot.
 
JustinR said:
Excellent post and agreed. I have no problem with the Taylor branded knives or other quality Chinese knives like rough riders. I own a couple of them.

For their price point, they are nice knives. Function fine.

What irritates me as a collector of Schrade USA knives is the desception and misrepresentation that some sellers on the auction sites resort to sell them by riding the coat tails of the legacy Schrade USA left behind.

Packaging then in original boxes or tubes that were bought up after the factory closed.

I'm just thankful they are fairly easy to spot.
Click to expand...

I agree cause I still love my USA Old Timer Best!
 
TheChunk91 TheChunk91
I agree with you! I'm "old school", too. When I was taught how to sharpen a knife, a burr or wire edge was a very much exceptionally bad thing to get.
They were to be avoided as much or more than being caught in the center of a 250 shark feeding frenzy.

I don't understand the "new" or "modern" sharpening standard/method where you want a burr on one side, then flip the blade and (allegedly) "sharpen the burr off".
I think I'll just keep sharpening the way I've been doing it for the last 58 or so years.

I was taught to strop using an old leather belt or a genuine barber's leather strop, with no abrasives on it, to eliminate any daRn* burr that may have formed.
I was also taught that 97% of the time, the stones were not needed to refresh/restore/sharpen the edge; stropping would usually suffice.
Proof: How often did a professional barber put his straight razor(s) to the stone verses stropping them?
It was virtually unheard of to have to use a stone on a straight razor, and you know hair/fur is hard on an edge.

On average, I'd guess I use a stone on any given knife maybe once a year.
Back in the days I was able to go deer hunting, my knives were sharp enough to skin 3 to 3.75 deer before they need stropping again. :)
(2 deer limit; I hunted with a friend.)

*Using a stronger, more appropriate word would result in an infraction. Therefore, I'll use the weaker word.
 
winchester73 said:
Since Smith and Wesson now owns Schrade after buying Taylor brands, I wonder if they have brought the quality up more. Anyone have any before and after knives to compare.
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Very first post on this thread, about the QUALITY of current production. To be perfectly honest I do NOT believe Taylor brands set out to be dishonest,or "riding the coattails of a legend". I honestly believe they simply wanted to make reasonably priced decent knives.Yes they bought a name with a reputation. Let me ask you how many of you own a dewalt power tool? Dewalt was a company that made high quality radial arm saws. Had a great reputation of toughness. Black and Decker had a line of "contractor grade" power tools. They wasn't selling well due to B&D reputation as a "home grade" tool maker. They bought the Dewalt name, rebranded their contractor grade tools as Dewalt. Same for Porter Cable, made by B&D. In fact I removed a plastic tab under my B&D 20v lithium drills, just so I could borrow my coworkers porter cable batteries. And to top it off all those brands are owned by Stanley tool group, want to learn some interesting facts? Look up just how many "different" tool brands fall under the Stanley umbrella. Back to current Schrade quality, seems good to me..Really good if you go to an actual store to buy them. Seems to me people run into more issues with quality of any brand when buying online. My great granddad told me "Don't buy a pig in a poke" as to people trying to pass off Chinese schrades as older ones, that's on them not the company that produces the product. As far as I've seen the tang stamps are completely different. I will say it would be better if the blade was stamped China somewhere. Like RR make it small and unobtrusive. Again sorry for the long post y'all. Lets enjoy the knives for what they are and not get hung up on the politics.
 
Corso said:
I've been after an original buzzsaw trapper for a while
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There is a pawn shop about 45 minute drive from me. They are a case dealer, but the have some schrade cases with most slots empty. Still have a few new old stock USA schrades, there's a buzzsaw in that case. Wanted it but didn't have enough money, I only had 20 on me, think it was around 35 bucks. Next time I'm there I'll double check to make sure they really are n.o.s USA schrades,
 
afishhunter said:
I think I'll just keep sharpening the way I've been doing it for the last 58 or so years.
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Once its sharp its sharp. When you know what your doing, you can do it. But you know what you are doing. It is a leap of faith for many to trust in their skills. Having sharpening guides is helpful, but people can become dependent on their kit. It's like riding a bike without training wheels, you believe the training wheels are needed even after they stop touching the ground.
 
I was never a huge fan of Schrade knives from the 70's on, because they did not use blade rivets (pins) that went all the way through the bolsters.
They only go through the liners and are prone to developing loose blades with hard use.
Not sure about older Schrades (pre 70s) but I doubt that they were made this way.
 
I'm the guy other people get to sharpen their knives lol. I do all mine free hand, if I rebevel an edge, free hand as well. I sharpen new knives first thing. I thinned the edges of my Rough Riders a bit, to me personal tastse. The old timer trapper I just got the bevels were good to go for me. The clip having a thinner more acute bevel, somewhere between 20-25 degree,combined with the hollow grind its insanely sharp. The spey is maybe 30 degree angle.As I don't have to castrate anything, the spey is more a rougher use blade for me.
 
Groundhogsniper said:
I was never a huge fan of Schrade knives from the 70's on, because they did not use blade rivets (pins) that went all the way through the bolsters.
They only go through the liners and are prone to developing loose blades with hard use.
Not sure about older Schrades (pre 70s) but I doubt that they were made this way.
Click to expand...

Well that post made me inspect my trapper really close. I can faintly make out a pivot pin in the bolster. Maybe its something that's been corrected?
 
Misplaced Hillbilly said:
My great granddad told me "Don't buy a pig in a poke" as to people trying to pass off Chinese schrades as older ones, that's on them not the company that produces the product. As far as I've seen the tang stamps are completely different.
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"Don't buy a pig in a poke" is like "Don't judge a book by its cover." Having the word "Schrade" on the product is intended to cause an association with a particular product. In this case, the name is intentionally used by the company that owns it to cause a nostalgic association with a particular product. It would be much more difficult for resellers to be deceptive if the producer used a name which allowed the product to be judged based only on its own merits, without the intentional use of a nostalgic association, as Rough Rider, Rite Edge or Szco knives have done. It is ironic that the company name is Smith and Wesson, again to reinforce nostalgic associations.
 
Misplaced Hillbilly said:
I'm the guy other people get to sharpen their knives lol. I do all mine free hand, if I rebevel an edge, free hand as well. I sharpen new knives first thing. I thinned the edges of my Rough Riders a bit, to me personal tastse. The old timer trapper I just got the bevels were good to go for me. The clip having a thinner more acute bevel, somewhere between 20-25 degree,combined with the hollow grind its insanely sharp. The spey is maybe 30 degree angle.As I don't have to castrate anything, the spey is more a rougher use blade for me.
Click to expand...
LOL! Exactly. When you know what you're doing you can do it. It used to be that younger guys would ask me to teach them how to sharpen freehand, now they treat it like some sort of unknowable wisdom.
 
Misplaced Hillbilly said:
Well that post made me inspect my trapper really close. I can faintly make out a pivot pin in the bolster. Maybe its something that's been corrected?
Click to expand...
If Taylor did one thing right after buying the Schrade name and intellectual properties, it was eliminating the Swendon Key construction!!

Talk about a defective design ... Buck dropped Schrade and went with Camillus when they were contracting out the 300 series, because of the Swendon Key and the number of Buck 300's being returned for warranty. (It was what? 1986 when Buck started making the 300 series in house?)

I am convinced the Swendon Key was a major contributing factor in Schrade's demise.
How many millions were returned for warranty? Since they could not be fixed, they were all replaced.
Rather difficult to remain competively priced and make a profit when you're giving away a fairly large percentage of your production. (And how many were replaced under their "No Loss Guarantee" on top of those replaced under warranty? "People" being "people" how can a company guarantee said "people" won't lose their knife?!? Or know if the "people" claiming to have lost their knife really lost it, and are not just getting another for free as a spare or to give someone as a gift?)
 
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