New release: Recon 1 in S35VN & SATIN finished

Just did a little internet research.
Found this post from a few years back on the Spyderco forum from Michael Janich of Spyderco (bolded text added by me):

DLC (Diamond-Like Carbon) is molecularly bonded to the surface of the material and will not "chip off if hit hard enough." It also does in fact increase corrosion resistance.

For a more technical explanation of the process used to apply it and the benefits of the coating itself, I went to IonBond, the folks who developed it. This is from their web site:

PACVD Technology

PACVD (Plasma Assisted Chemical Vapor Deposition) is a vacuum based process used to deposit DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) coatings, also known as ADLC (Amorphous Diamond-Like Carbon). All educts of the PACVD process are gaseous. This makes it suitable for coating 3D components uniformly, without the need for rotation as is necessary in PVD.

The coatings are amorphous in structure and contain around 70% sp3 bondings, which accounts for the high hardness of the coating (10-40 GPa).

The PACVD process is used for coating a very broad range of conductive and non-conductive substrate materials at temperatures below 200° C. The typical thickness is in the range of 2 – 3 µm.

DLC coatings feature excellent hardness, wear and low friction properties under dry or deficient lubrication conditions. They are ideally suited for tribological systems found in engines, machines and other mechanical assemblies with sliding and rolling movements. The perfect surface finish without any post-treatment makes them ideal for high precision injection molding tools as well as for decorative purposes. DLC is chemically inert and biocompatible which allows for its application on medical components and implants.

Broad range of substrate materials
No distortion of high precision substrates
No post treatment necessary
Gaseous process for uniform coating of 3D geometries without rotation
Green technology with respect to educts, process and products

Here's a link to additional information that substantiates its qualities of hardness, adherence, and corrosion resistance:

http://www.renishaw.com/advancedmaterials/en/diamond-like-carbon-coatings--14211

In my previous job, many of the knives we produced were DLC coated--including DLC-coated A2 tool-steel blades. I saw many of these that had seen extensive hard use in tactical environments. The DLC held up extremely well. Even when the exposed steel at the edges of blades was allowed to corrode, the corrosion did not "bubble" under the DLC like conventional coating or plating processes and stopped where the DLC started.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike
 
Yes, I am going to wait for more handle color choices to be released later on hopefully.
 
Mo2 said:
Why choose s35vn over xhp?
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I think s35vn is the fad right now. They probably wanted to choose something other than XHP so that way those with coated XHP models would be more likely to try this one too.
 
Lapedog said:
I think s35vn is the fad right now. They probably wanted to choose something other than XHP so that way those with coated XHP models would be more likely to try this one too.
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That makes sense. I just hope the s35v is part of the sprint run that helps distinguish it further from the production knives. I think a lot of Recon 1 owners would buy an uncoated xhp version, either satin or stone washed. I would.
 
whp said:
That makes sense. I just hope the s35v is part of the sprint run that helps distinguish it further from the production knives. I think a lot of Recon 1 owners would buy an uncoated xhp version, either satin or stone washed. I would.
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Hopefully if Cold Steel sees alot of buzz about this they will bring uncoated to their main line up.

Get on those Cold Steel boards and start creating buzz. "Oh I'll buy three of the s35vn Recons, too bad they don't come in XHP or I'd buy 12"
 
Lapedog said:
Hopefully if Cold Steel sees alot of buzz about this they will bring uncoated to their main line up.

Get on those Cold Steel boards and start creating buzz. "Oh I'll buy three of the s35vn Recons, too bad they don't come in XHP or I'd buy 12"
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Couldn t hurt!
 
That exclusive isn't going to generate a lot of buzz because it's a Canadian dealer. Not that there's anything wrong with Canada :)
I still there's a decent chance we see more uncoated versions.
 
They sold out, though....never understood CS's fascination with coated blades.
 
shqxk said:
DLC does help against corrosion bro.
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It's one thing to quote statements from knife bro science articles, a whole different thing to actually prove it in real life. Please feel free to provide photo proof under a controlled test right here in the thread. Not being an ass, i legitimately welcome the results, because so far none have been shown anywhere apart from article claims on metal composition. I have personally seen that DLC seems to hold onto remnants of certain liquids once they come in contact. The blade even when cleaned with oil, wd40, mineral turps, lighter fluid etc, still seems to keep some staining. I don't think there have been extensive enough tests done to prove it helps, since there are multiple circumstances and environments that trigger corrosion.
 
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Mick_1KRR said:
It's one thing to quote statements from knife bro science articles, a whole different thing to actually prove it in real life. Please feel free to provide photo proof under a controlled test right here in the thread. Not being an ass, i legitimately welcome the results, because so far none have been shown anywhere apart from article claims on metal composition. I have personally seen that DLC seems to hold onto remnants of certain liquids once they come in contact. The blade even when cleaned with oil, wd40, mineral turps, lighter fluid etc, still seems to keep some staining. I don't think there have been extensive enough tests done to prove it helps, since there are multiple circumstances and environments that trigger corrosion.
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What lead you to think carbon like film that bond to the surface of the steel won't going to improve it corrosion resistance?

By just a little common sense you will know it already reduce the explore surface of the steel by a lot already because the film itself is corrosion proof.

Every type of PVD will improve corrosion resistance by some margin depending on the media.
 
shqxk said:
What lead you to think carbon like film that bond to the surface of the steel won't going to improve it corrosion resistance?

By just a little common sense you will know it already reduce the explore surface of the steel by a lot already because the film itself is corrosion proof.

Every type of PVD will improve corrosion resistance by some margin depending on the media.
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It may improve it (slightly) or it may not, all i'm saying is there is not enough study or real world evidence to prove that it improves it by any significant margin. You can talk common sense all day but when you talk science common sense and article claims just don't cut it. How do you know that if any form of corrosion does actually penetrate the DLC that it won't cause worse issues as it's harder to get at or even notice due to absence of standard discoloration on the surface? Since it has then penetrated the molecular bond between the DLC and steel surface. I don't want to get into a debate about it all, i'm just saying, there are no actual tests done in a controlled environment to prove it. I might grab a DLC blade and one satin finish, same steel, and spray them periodically with salt water and see how they go over a few days. I'm surprised there haven't been any tests done.
 
Mick_1KRR said:
It may improve it (slightly) or it may not, all i'm saying is there is not enough study or real world evidence to prove that it improves it by any significant margin. You can talk common sense all day but when you talk science common sense and article claims just don't cut it. How do you know that if any form of corrosion does actually penetrate the DLC that it won't cause worse issues as it's harder to get at or even notice due to absence of standard discoloration on the surface? Since it has then penetrated the molecular bond between the DLC and steel surface. I don't want to get into a debate about it all, i'm just saying, there are no actual tests done in a controlled environment to prove it. I might grab a DLC blade and one satin finish, same steel, and spray them periodically with salt water and see how they go over a few days. I'm surprised there haven't been any tests done.
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You should check this out.

 
shqxk said:
You should check this out.
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It's an interesting vid, i've seen this a while back and then tried to find more info on the topic, i think it should be noted that all DLC's are not created equally as 3rd party DLC finishes are much different to those found on some knives. There is a user on the becnhmade forum who had some contego blades DLC coated and they don't appear to have anywhere near the amount of DLC coating on them as say a Cold Steel or Spyderco DLC. And what is also noteworthy is that this topic came up a long while back and Sal from spyderco himself even weighed in on the subject on the Spydie forum stating that DLC does not help with corrosion, i'm trying to track down the thread for you. But who knows, maybe the DLC tech has gotten better or the amount of DLC in the process has increased thus making it have more of an impact as seen in the video. Either way it's an interesting topic.
 
I did a search for posts by Sal on the Spyderco home forum and found this:

https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26350&p=327150&hilit=dlc#p327150

"Coatings vary from cheap to expensive depending on the coating.

The purpose of the coating also varies from corrosion resistance to glare removal.

We try to use DLC where possible. It is the most expensive coating we've found, but generally holds up the best and serves to be both corrosion resitant and reduce glare.

sal"

Here's another:

https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14972&p=145516&hilit=dlc#p145516

"All of the blade coating done on the Golden models is DLC. It is the best, strongest, most corrosion resistant (& expensive) coating available today. Rc of the coating is over 70.

As mentioned, not as smooth to open when new. Some breaking in and oiling required. As with all of the Golden made models, these are users.

sal"
 
AF said:
I did a search for posts by Sal on the Spyderco home forum and found this:

https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26350&p=327150&hilit=dlc#p327150

"Coatings vary from cheap to expensive depending on the coating.

The purpose of the coating also varies from corrosion resistance to glare removal.

We try to use DLC where possible. It is the most expensive coating we've found, but generally holds up the best and serves to be both corrosion resitant and reduce glare.

sal"

Here's another:

https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14972&p=145516&hilit=dlc#p145516

"All of the blade coating done on the Golden models is DLC. It is the best, strongest, most corrosion resistant (& expensive) coating available today. Rc of the coating is over 70.

As mentioned, not as smooth to open when new. Some breaking in and oiling required. As with all of the Golden made models, these are users.

sal"
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Wow, tunes sure do change over the years. Back in 2011 there were things posted on the Spydie forum saying the opposite about corrosion from the Spydie factory crew. There are some links floating around big surprise the threads no longer exist when you click on them. Here's a thread where many people seem to think the opposite and also mention the Spydie team saying it specifically at one stage. Even one of your mods refer to the Spydie guys saying it. "DLC is for light discipline, not corrosion resistance. This has been discussed before by the Spyderco crew. If you did a search, I'm sure you would find the threads." https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/dlc-coating-rust-corrosion-resistance-question.894294/

There you have it then, DLC is basically the new H1 steel now........ :rolleyes:
 
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The threads I linked are from 2005 and 2007.
They are direct quotes from Sal.
I'm more dubious of those who paraphrase Spyderco without any source material.
 
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