New Rules for the Exchange forum - Feedback thread.

hardheart said:
Maybe I'm getting wires crossed (again) but I was thinking the thread start time ordering would be for the makers. They don't do quite the same number of price drops or get as many second dibs, and not as many threads in general are started each day. But the comments in the threads are generally more valuable, as there isn't a population of tens of thousands of people who own a lot of examples of their work, as is the case with the production pieces sold on the secondary market.

Plus you can change the way the threads are ordered on your own, this is just a switch for the default display.
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I guess that I got mixed up trying to follow this discussion!!

I was under the impression that the suggestion was for all of them.
 
So, Do the Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Provider memberships have the same rules as dealers or as regular knifemakers. There are some with the K/C/SP designation who have a lot of threads running on page one. Also, how does the bumping and comment rule apply to K/C/SP threads.

One other thing that seems like it will be very confusing to both the mods and the visitors on the FS areas is that, according to Esav, dealer threads are just like private forums, and the knives can be commented on and discussed at will. That will encourage the visitor/buyers to do the same thing on a regular member's FS thread which would not be allowed.......how is casual visitor supposed to know where to comment and where it is forbidden?

Just a suggestion, based on a few emails, could we add a " For Sale by Dealers and Providers" sub-forum, and solve the whole problem. The dealers would have a place to sell and discuss whatever they wish...with their own set of rules. The regular For Sale sub-forums would be for the guys wanting to sell some extra wood , an old HT oven,or a knife they made. The current rules would be enforced there.



.
 
First, thank you Spark for such a totally unexpected and very much appreciated gesture. :thumbup:

Daniel said:
If you choose to change the order to the original post rather than the new posts, what will keep members from simply closing their thread and posting a new thread?

How would a person be able to move a thread from the depths to the important first page or second page?

Personally, controlling the bumping and restricting the excess BS from the threads is the best course.

There is no reason for many of the posts in the sale threads. Email sent? Pictures? One knife out of 6 posted has sold? Give me a break! Backup on the knife sold? There is no reason for it. PM or emails need to be used to communicate. If people don't give access to their emails, then they choose not to participate.

Price reduction bumps should be allowed. Set the price at a minumum 5% to bump the thread.
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It looks like Hardheart has cleared that up a bit for you, but to go into a bit more detail...

Yes, the suggestion was initially for the Knifemakers FS Area only. They receive much less traffic than the rest of The Exchange and put a premium on user feedback. The downside to this change is that, yes, bumping would be disabled entirely.


Is it right for the rest of The Exchange? Tough to say, really.

I think the "two in the top 25/four in the top 50" rule will clear up a lot of the repost spam, but as was suggested in my last reply, you could go one step further by imposing a rule to disallow reposting of the same knife within X amount of hours/days. This would largely end up being community-policed rule, as we couldn't expect the mods to go through and check to make sure every single post isn't a repost. If we, the community, notice someone abusing the rules, all we would have to do is flag the post for moderation.



I understand the worry, though. In some of the busier areas of The Exchange, it's possible your thread could slide to page two before it's even been seen. The real problem, though, is bumping... not people posting new threads.

Consider this. If bumping were removed from all areas of the exchange, all threads would have equal access to page one, as the only thing that could bump them off is more posts. No more would an unlucky string of bumps send you to the dreaded page two. You could post late at night on a Wednesday to have many hours of page one action, but your audience would be far less than it would be at, say, 10 in the morning on a Saturday, where you aren't likely to stay on page one nearly as long.

Also, because the order would never change due to bumping, you wouldn't have to cherry-pick your way through the thread-list. There would be a large chunk of "I haven't seen this yet" waiting for you every time you checked the forums. Even if your post did somehow manage to end up on page two and unsold, someone who hadn't seen it yet could take a quick glance at his page one and realize that, "hey, there might be more stuff I haven't seen waiting for me on page two!"
 
Fascion said:
Also, because the order would never change due to bumping, you wouldn't have to cherry-pick your way through the thread-list. There would be a large chunk of "I haven't seen this yet" waiting for you every time you checked the forums. Even if your post did somehow manage to end up on page two and unsold, someone who hadn't seen it yet could take a quick glance at his page one and realize that, "hey, there might be more stuff I haven't seen waiting for me on page two!"
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BRILLIANT! Somebody give this man a platinum membership! :p.

I don't know about most folks, but personally I only want to see NEW threads in the exchange, not RENEWED ones! If I am interested in watching a thread for a price drop or whatnot, I will just subscribe to it, easier than watching for a bump.

It would also drop the mods workload quite a bit! Win-win!
 
link2derek said:
You are incorrect, sir. You cited 2-509(1)(a) which relates specifically to "shipment contracts." But the relevant part is in 2-509(1)(b), which relates to "destination contracts" and states that when the buyer specifies a particular destination (as one does when he/she gives his/her shipping address), then the risk of loss remains with the seller until duly tendered so that the buyer may take delivery. If the item never shows up to the buyer's address (because of the seller's or carrier's fault), then it has not been duly tendered, and the buyer can't possibly take delivery, and the risk of loss never passes to the buyer. Of course, all of these default rules cease to apply if the buyer and seller agree otherwise, which they are free to do.
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More complex than this. The Federal Consumer protection act is in force and any item that arrives "not as described" and is unacceptable to the buyer must be returned to the seller AND the seller must pay for the return shipping.
Insurance only covers items that are packed to the designated standards of the shipping co. The Visa/mastercard merchant agreements basically state the same thing (and they would have to) so if a buyer uses visa to pay paypal then paypal is the responsible party and they (paypal) must seek remedies from the seller.

Bottom line. As a seller, divulge everything, photograph well, pack as per that particular shipper's rules and insure the item.

When I sell something, I overstate the negatives. That may take a hit and turn off some sellers but the confidence rating in me as a seller goes up.
 
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I just recieved an infraction for answering a question in my FS thread. Normally one would think I'd be cranky about it but it's my fault, I didn't read. I got so used to being able to do it in the thread that I just responded. I must say that I like the new rules for the most part.

I'm a member of a forum geared towards cars and the FS section is a complete nightmare. People have full discussions in a FS thread. It is a total PITA to sift through the BS to get any info on the item for sale.
 
myright said:
I'm a member of a forum geared towards cars and the FS section is a complete nightmare. People have full discussions in a FS thread. It is a total PITA to sift through the BS to get any info on the item for sale.
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There is a simple solution for that, if the seller can edit all answers into the original post.
 
Ok. Based on feedback from the moderators, we're going to tentatively try Fascion's suggestion on the for sale forums. The worst thing that can happen is that people complain and we'll go back to normal.

During this time, there will be no infractions for bumping, no infractions for "email sent" or whatever, and we'll suspend the "2 on the first page, 4 on the first 4" rule and we'll see where it goes. I think a "no reposting the same knife for 2 weeks" rule should be sufficient, yes?

Since threads won't get bumped, I'm also going to encourage that people separate out their knives into different threads.

What do you guys think?
 
All of the "for sale" forums? If you are stating that this change will be for all of the "for sale" forums, then I must say that this change is a very bad idea.

Personally, as I posted above, I don't like the idea for all of the forums.

What is one supposed to do when they lower the price? Threads fall fast and you will miss the opportunity for people to read your thread in a day or even two.

I can understand it in the makers or suppliers forums. However, in the "for sale by individuals", I disagree strongly.
 
Well Daniel -

1. Threads aren't going to fall as fast without the constant bumping and such.
2. People should still edit price changes into the OP
3. Without the constant bumping, it should be easier to find threads in the mix.

For everyone else, I've edited the OP in this thread, and changed the layout format for the affected forums. Let's see how this goes.
 
Spark said:
3. Without the constant bumping, it should be easier to find threads in the mix.
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This will be a big help. It's easy to remember about when a knife was offered, and to hunt it down by date this way.

There is still "Thread Tools" - "Subscribe to this Thread".
 
Spark said:
Marcelo - I went through and dinged about 30 people last night, so it's not just you.

Bigthresher - it's really not that complicated. If you aren't selling, most of the rules don't apply to you.

Fascion - it's certainly something to consider. I hadn't thought about that to be quite honest. Since it's an option we've never used before the possibility never entered my mind. It'd certainly make things a lot easier, especially since there'd be less to monitor. On the other hand, people spamming new threads over and over would be a problem. Good suggestion, free platinum upgrade for you.
EDIT: The more I think about this, the more this may work out for the best. I'd REALLY like feedback from people over this.

Stacy - Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service provider is a separate level of membership from Dealer.
Registered users can't sell anywhere, and can't even post threads in any of the dedicated for sale forums. For example:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789104 - this guy looked like he was a registered user, but only because he didn't have his membership display set to the proper level, he actually has a paid subscription. (I just changed his display)
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Spark,
The whole feedback to the exchange rules brought up a point I have been meaning to address. I currently have a dealer membership and sell factory knives, but I am also a knife maker and with a little more time would like to offer some of my handmade knives for sale. My dealer membership was quite a bit more costly than a knifemaker/craftsman/service provider membership. Am I allowed to list my own knives for sale in the maker's exchange? Also, if I am allowed to sell my own knives, can I change my user description to something along the lines of "knifemaker/craftsman/dealer"?

Hope this isn't too off topic since it deals with exchange forums and how to abide by the rules.

Thanks,
Jonny
 
Spark said:
Well Daniel -

1. Threads aren't going to fall as fast without the constant bumping and such.
2. People should still edit price changes into the OP
3. Without the constant bumping, it should be easier to find threads in the mix.

For everyone else, I've edited the OP in this thread, and changed the layout format for the affected forums. Let's see how this goes.
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Yes, they will still fall fast. Both the custom and production threads have a relatively high volume of new knives being posted daily.

Yes, they will not fall as fast as now and there is a lot of superfluous posts occurring.

However, as one who has followed the rules strictly, I feel that we are being penalized by the sins of those who cannot seem to follow the rules.

You are basically saying that a person will have to wait 2 weeks to get another shot at getting the knives for sale into the first part of the threads?

As I noted, I do not like this move and I disagree. You asked for feedback and that is my feedback on this issue.
 
jonnymac44 said:
Spark,
The whole feedback to the exchange rules brought up a point I have been meaning to address. I currently have a dealer membership and sell factory knives, but I am also a knife maker and with a little more time would like to offer some of my handmade knives for sale. My dealer membership was quite a bit more costly than a knifemaker/craftsman/service provider membership. Am I allowed to list my own knives for sale in the maker's exchange? Also, if I am allowed to sell my own knives, can I change my user description to something along the lines of "knifemaker/craftsman/dealer"?

Hope this isn't too off topic since it deals with exchange forums and how to abide by the rules.

Thanks,
Jonny
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Jonny - you should be able to list personally made knives in the Knifemaker's area, yes. You should also be able to edit your title to reflect what you want.
 
Daniel said:
Yes, they will still fall fast. Both the custom and production threads have a relatively high volume of new knives being posted daily.

Yes, they will not fall as fast as now and there is a lot of superfluous posts occurring.

However, as one who has followed the rules strictly, I feel that we are being penalized by the sins of those who cannot seem to follow the rules.

You are basically saying that a person will have to wait 2 weeks to get another shot at getting the knives for sale into the first part of the threads?

As I noted, I do not like this move and I disagree. You asked for feedback and that is my feedback on this issue.
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Noted and respected. We'll see how it works; if it's a dismal failure, it'll be a lesson learned and we'll go back to the old way. Classified ad systems don't allow for bumping, so I think people will be able to deal just fine.
 
Spark said:
Jonny - you should be able to list personally made knives in the Knifemaker's area, yes. You should also be able to edit your title to reflect what you want.
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Great! Thanks for the clarification Spark. I just didn't want to do anything out of step;)
 
As far as the new Rules goes, It seems the point was getting across to many Bladeforum members. The only thing I thought might have been a good idea is to delete 72 and make it 48 hours for a bump.
 
LMT66 said:
As far as the new Rules goes, It seems the point was getting across to many Bladeforum members. The only thing I thought might have been a good idea is to delete 72 and make it 48 hours for a bump.
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I think 72 is good. People who are really serious about buying, either production or custom will spend a little time going through thread titles looking for what they want (I know from experience;)). After 72 hours it's possible a seller's thread may have gotten lost in the shuffle, but I don't think so quite as much at only 48 hours. If people are shopping, they'll find it:thumbup:
 
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