New Rules for the Exchange forum - Feedback thread.

Should be interesting to see what happens. It'll certainly make things much easier for the Mods as all they'll have to monitor is if someone violates the 2 week re-posting rule (I imagine by closing their thread & starting a new one, right?).

It'll also keep people honest in that there'll be no more "buddy bumping" & all the useless "email sent" & similar posts won't matter.
 
Spark,

I like the idea.

Give us an exact statement ( which we can quote) on what you want the sellers and buyers to do.
As I read your statement, you are temporarily suspending the rules on some things.
I foresee a lot of questions, so want to be armed with the proper answers.

1) Number of threads allowed

2) Bumping

3) Commenting

4) Reposting

5) Number of items in a thread
 
If you choose to change the order to the original post rather than the new posts, what will keep members from simply closing their thread and posting a new thread?

How would a person be able to move a thread from the depths to the important first page or second page?

Personally, controlling the bumping and restricting the excess BS from the threads is the best course.

There is no reason for many of the posts in the sale threads. Email sent? Pictures? One knife out of 6 posted has sold? Give me a break! Backup on the knife sold? There is no reason for it. PM or emails need to be used to communicate. If people don't give access to their emails, then they choose not to participate.

Price reduction bumps should be allowed. Set the price at a minumum 5% to bump the thread.

yeah, I agree with this. I don't think changing the way the posts are ordered in that forum will be good at all. you could post your knife at an off-time and no one will ever see it, and there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

I agree also with the price reduction bump part. I think that should be allowed, and possibly a new item added bump. Like yesterday, I edited my thread title and added some new knives, but no one has a clue since I can't bump it until this afternoon.
 
Yes, they will still fall fast. Both the custom and production threads have a relatively high volume of new knives being posted daily.

Yes, they will not fall as fast as now and there is a lot of superfluous posts occurring.

However, as one who has followed the rules strictly, I feel that we are being penalized by the sins of those who cannot seem to follow the rules.

You are basically saying that a person will have to wait 2 weeks to get another shot at getting the knives for sale into the first part of the threads?

As I noted, I do not like this move and I disagree. You asked for feedback and that is my feedback on this issue.
As another who has followed the rules to a T, I feel where you are coming from. That's life, though. The actions of a few determine what is allowed by the whole. It's not fair, but it's what keeps things running (relatively) smoothly.



On paper, scenarios could be written for this test to go either way. Now that Spark has taken the leap, though, we have our first opportunity to see what this new system will look like. Undoubtedly it's the inability to bump which will worry sellers the most. For better or worse, we have never known a time on these forums where bumping wasn't just a part of life. Rather than speculate, lets take just a few minutes to look at some statistics while we can.

As of this writing (~8 AM CST on a Monday) if you were the very first person to post a new thread in the 'For Sale by Individual: Production' forum on Sunday morning, your post would still be on the first page.

There were 21 new threads created yesterday in that forum, figuring in the default 25 threads per page, that leaves a spot for 4 newer or older threads to show. Saturday looked fairly similar; 19 threads posted that day. 22 new threads on Friday, 23 on Thursday. As you can see, your thread stands a really good chance at staying on page one for a good 24 hours. As an aside, of all of those threads I counted, only 23 of the 85 of them would not have been bumped prior to this test... and about half of those were after the infractions crackdown began a couple of days ago.



Now, regarding the two-week re-post rule, I'm sure everyone has their own way of monitoring for price drops on knives that they are interested in. Personally, I'd rather not have to wade through the jumbled mess that is a dozen bumped threads that I've already seen, now in random order, just looking for the one thread with a knife in it that I was interested in.

Under the new rules (the Halloween rules, not these new test rules) having the original poster (OP) post price drops was also greatly restricted. You could edit it into your first post... or wait 72 hours and include it in a bump. Granted, 72 hours isn't 2 weeks, the effect might as well be the same. Under these test rules, the 'give' is that you can no longer bump every 72 hours... the 'take' is that everyone is given equal opportunity for page-one visibility, the hectic nature of the forum is greatly reduced and we are given much more freedom to use our threads in whatever way we please.



There are other options, though. This one was just the easiest to implement for the staff. If disallowing thread bumping is proven to be a major problem, another option would be to have a mod/hack created that would allow only the OP to bump their threads and only after a designated amount of time. Actually getting that mod written is a different issue entirely, let alone if Spark is willing to have his vB install modded.

yeah, I agree with this. I don't think changing the way the posts are ordered in that forum will be good at all. you could post your knife at an off-time and no one will ever see it, and there's not a whole lot you can do about it.
Well, you would actually have a choice to make.
If you post your knife in off-hours, it stands to reason that your thread will remain visible for a much longer period of time.
If, instead, you posted it during peak hours, you might not stay on page-one as long, you might be seen by more people.

Oddly, though, it seems liked there aren't really any off-hours around here. That is to say, in the (admittedly) small sample size that I posted above, each day saw around 20 posts each. That means that whether you posted at 2 AM or 2 PM, your post is very likely to be on page one until the following day. If someone logs in that evening, they will see each thread just as easily.
 
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Is there a way to implement self-sticky with this forum software? If there is a sale ad you like, you can stick it to the top of your own display and then check it first thing. Subscribing also works. These are good tools for buyers waiting on price drops or additional info to get posted.

How many listings are allowed now that the 2/4 rule is gone? Someone could crowd half the first page if they have a dozen knives and do separate threads for each.
 
Since threads won't get bumped, I'm also going to encourage that people separate out their knives into different threads.

Are you encouraging them to separate the knives by brand, or by the individual knife?

I have seen some sellers list between 10-20 knives in one thread. If they broke it up into single threads, they would own the entire first page.
 
Is there a way to implement self-sticky with this forum software? If there is a sale ad you like, you can stick it to the top of your own display and then check it first thing. Subscribing also works. These are good tools for buyers waiting on price drops or additional info to get posted.

How many listings are allowed now that the 2/4 rule is gone? Someone could crowd half the first page if they have a dozen knives and do separate threads for each.

it's definitely possible to do that, but you'd probably (I haven't dealt with modifying/administering a vBulletin forum in a long long time) have to edit some of the code. usually there's sites that tell you exactly what to change in order to do mods like this. it's not very difficult at all, but the forums would go down if there were any mistakes.

if there's not already a mod out there, all you would have to do is setup a button that adds the thread ID and parent forum ID to a new field in the user's thread in the MySQL database (you could do this as an ordered pair). then put in some PHP code in the forum listing page that displays the listing of subscribed threads that share the same parent forum id as the current forum. the phd code could also make it so that it doesn't display anything if the field is empty. this whole thing is probably analogous to how the regular subscriptions are displayed, but this way it only shows in the appropriate forum.
 
I have to say I don't like the new rules change. Suspending rules on comments in for sale threads? The last thing I want is some NooB crapping on my thread because he doesn't like the price or the knife. Separating knives into individual threads? Not a good idea, grouping them into a single thread is best. Some guys are selling 20 knives at a time. And not being able to bump the post with a price change is just bad news for all of us who sell regularly on this forum. What's the point of a platinum membership if us collectors can't sell effectively? Sure, I like to support BFC as well, but if buying and selling starts to suck, the value of this site goes way down IMHO. A seller needs to be able to bump his thread to the top where others will readily see something has changed when he updates the price or critical info on the product. Leaving a knife you're trying to sell (especially when you need the money!) on page 3 or 4 for 2 weeks will be madenning as hell and I'll look for alternative places to spend my time on that make it easier to get visibility. In my opinion, you should immediately return to the previous rules before the last two rules changes. They worked fine for several years and this is a very successful site, partly based on those rules. If you can't, then at least allow bumping based on price or info changes, don't encourage listing knives separately, and still police stupid comments unrelated to the sale. Thanks
 
Comments are still good to go for knife makers, where the pieces and the makers receive compliments. Look at the rules as they are now, there is no strikethrough on the rule about negative comments, it will still get someone banned.

As for bumping for price drops, it will just have sellers reevaluate their initial listing price and eliminate the dutch auctions as bumps. Maybe you can have a dutch auction now with seemingly no issue, as you won't bump someone else from the first page with price updates in new posts. It would be nice if prices were left after the sale so there could be references. It is true that is a person lists a knife for $200 because they think it is worth that, but then it really won't sell until it's at least down to $150, that they are off the first page for two weeks. If there was some historical pricing, maybe that wouldn't happen too often. But, people would still have to search first.
 
Are you encouraging them to separate the knives by brand, or by the individual knife?

I have seen some sellers list between 10-20 knives in one thread. If they broke it up into single threads, they would own the entire first page.

This would cause heartache and be a big bummer and it WILL happen . Other than that , I like the changes and think in time it will work out good .
 
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Is there a way to implement self-sticky with this forum software? If there is a sale ad you like, you can stick it to the top of your own display and then check it first thing. Subscribing also works.
it's definitely possible to do that, but you'd probably (I haven't dealt with modifying/administering a vBulletin forum in a long long time) have to edit some of the code.
It would be possible, yes, but it would have to come in the form of a mod (or hack as they are referred to with vB.) As was the case with The Perfect Solution™ that I talked about earlier, the problem would be finding someone capable of making such a mod. Said person would need to be quite knowledgeable in PHP and XML coding, as well as know their way around a MySQL database... and have experience with modding vB itself. Not the tallest order by any means, but not something you can find on every street corner. Considering how vast and varied the knife community is, I'm sure if you put out an APB here on the forums, you could probably even find someone who can do just that. Then they would just need to be properly motivated to write such a mod (no small job) and Spark would have to be willing to install it (which can have it's risks.)

Subscribing, though, is the answer here. As you pointed out, it is a great and powerful tool that everyone should learn to use. You can chose to subscribe to a thread (as I have for this one) and have the forums send you an email each time a new reply has been posted. If you tend to subscribe to lots of threads (in the case of watching for price drops) then you can subscribe without notification and check up on them every now and again by going to 'User CP > List Subscriptions.' That is as close to self-sticky as you can get by default with vB.

A seller needs to be able to bump his thread to the top where others will readily see something has changed when he updates the price or critical info on the product. Leaving a knife you're trying to sell (especially when you need the money!) on page 3 or 4 for 2 weeks will be madenning as hell [...] In my opinion, you should immediately return to the previous rules before the last two rules changes. They worked fine for several years and this is a very successful site, partly based on those rules.
I don't disagree. The problem was that any and all activity in the thread would result in a bump, not just important stuff like a price drop. Because of that, some of the subforums to The Exchange were very chaotic, especially with the handful of loopholes in the old rules.

But you do bring up a good point. The Exchange has probably played a considerable part in how successful these forums have been over the years. That said, I think most everyone can agree that the old rules were being abused more than a little bit. It was time for a change. Now we must work together to find a happy medium between what was and what now is.
 
I'm always easy going and follow the rules to the best of my ability, but I believe that perhaps the NEW selling changes should have been for the knife makers section where questions are frequently asked and Oohs and Aaahs are given in respect to well designed customs.

I waited my 72 hours and "bumped" my sale thread just now in the Individual For Sale Forum and realized it didn't go anywhere :confused: I posted it on Friday (prime time for people seeing it) and waited patiently with what was the newest rules of not bumping with any sort of price drop, I edited in a Q & A section, and finally did my "bump" for the 3 day wait.

I think this will cause mass confusion and frustration. There's been times in the past where I wouldn't have seen a great knife deal if it hadn't have been bumped to the front page after 3,4,5 days of laying dormant.

Here's my vote for a "nay" on the newest change to the Individual For Sale Forum.
 
Since threads won't get bumped, I'm also going to encourage that people separate out their knives into different threads.

What do you guys think?

Are you encouraging them to separate the knives by brand, or by the individual knife?

I have seen some sellers list between 10-20 knives in one thread. If they broke it up into single threads, they would own the entire first page.

I just counted, in one of my threads, I have 82 knives, should I put five knives in each threads, so I can have 17 pages? And that's only one of my 4 major thread for Busse. People will come and kill me for how many threads I will have. Is that really smart? I thought we were trying to considerate threads, to save on more space? Would that really be smart? I can do it, I just don't think that would be smart. O and in case you were wondering, here is the page with 83 knives and that's not counting the sheaths for sale:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=767916
 
That's why Dealers belong in the Dealer forums, where multiple listings in each thread work. In Individual forums, listing each separately allows sold knives to be marked SOLD separately and not kill the whole listing, and Individuals do not generally sell so many at one time.
 
That's why Dealers belong in the Dealer forums, where multiple listings in each thread work. In Individual forums, listing each separately allows sold knives to be marked SOLD separately and not kill the whole listing, and Individuals do not generally sell so many at one time.

What he said. If you're a dealer and have a thread that's constantly being updated with new knives, then it belongs in the dealer section and will stay on page one of that forum for a loooong time regardless of the new rules. When you have a thread with 83 knives in the individual forums getting bumped everytime a new one is added, not to mention the standard bumps and chatter, it's unfair to the actual individuals that get their listings knocked down to accommodate you. JMO.
 
I know I already threw srp out there, but I will also mention slickdeals.net, because that is where I use the 'my sticky' option. Perhaps Spark can find out from them where they got the code. Also, and I don't think it would work for the BF community, but the threads have their own categories. I look mostly in the 'hot deals' forum, where anything can be listed. But, each thread can be categorized by the product type. You can then click on the category and filter all posts. Say I'm looking for a deal on clothes and don't want to sift through the electronics and sports threads, I just click on the apparel icon, and voila, only the apparel threads appear.

Theoretically, you could consolidate custom, dealer, and individual sales/trades for both gear and knives in one forum, but it would be a mess. But sale only and fsot threads could be categorized and filtered in the same forum if that would be of use. I just don't know if these tools would be of any help in bandwidth and navigation issues for this particular sales environment.
 
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The tag function could do that, but it's hard to get people to remember to use it. It would work like labels in Gmail.
 
That's why Dealers belong in the Dealer forums, where multiple listings in each thread work. In Individual forums, listing each separately allows sold knives to be marked SOLD separately and not kill the whole listing, and Individuals do not generally sell so many at one time.

What he said. If you're a dealer and have a thread that's constantly being updated with new knives, then it belongs in the dealer section and will stay on page one of that forum for a loooong time regardless of the new rules. When you have a thread with 83 knives in the individual forums getting bumped everytime a new one is added, not to mention the standard bumps and chatter, it's unfair to the actual individuals that get their listings knocked down to accommodate you. JMO.

Did you forget this reply:

We may be eliminating the dealer forums and combining them with the individual ones in the near future. Certain forums, IIRC the Busse For Sale one, requested specific Dealer posting allowances.
 
Don't cherry-pick previous possibilities. We're trying to make a new system work, not accommodate you at every else's expense.
 
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