NEW spyderholes BM's

Buck268 said:
"Spyderhole" what a load of bullshit. Yeah they are good knives. Yeah the thumbhole works fine. Just as fine as a well placed stud, or disc for that matter. Get over it guys, its a freaking circle its not that complicated.
Click to expand...

I will only note here that the round opening hole is a registered trademark of Spyderco, just as the butterfly logo is a registered trademark of Benchmade. That is why we refer to it as a "Spyderhole". That is the root of any animosity you may sense here. Deal with it.
 
Buck268 said:
"Spyderhole" what a load of bullshit. Yeah they are good knives. Yeah the thumbhole works fine. Just as fine as a well placed stud, or disc for that matter. Get over it guys, its a freaking circle its not that complicated.
Click to expand...

As simple as it may be, Spyderco was the first company to do it. It wasn't common and simple prior to Spyderco, it wasn't anything because it simply did not exist. Now that it exists, it's not "complicated". Where again are all of your oh so simple innovations?
 
wotanson said:
Thanks for clearing that up......so glad we have such a smart guy around here to school us. Must be a big Benchmade fan huh?
Click to expand...

If you read my review of the Vex, you wouldn't fall back on that worn-out response.

I probably own more Spyderco knives than most people on this forum.

And I still think you are seeing things that are not so.
 
Carl64 said:
If you read my review of the Vex, you wouldn't fall back on that worn-out response.

I probably own more Spyderco knives than most people on this forum.

And I still think you are seeing things that are not so.
Click to expand...

Don't get your knickers in a twist, I was sincere in my comment. It is very confusing in that everyone even remotely interested in knives knows that the so called Benchmade "round opening hole" is what has defined Spyderco as a company, patented (now expired) and trademarked since the early 1980's. Wasn't Benchmades "oval opening hole" touted for years by the company as "superior" to the Spyderhole? Weren't Benchmade thumbstuds more "convenient" than the Spyderhole? So it is very confusing to Spyderheads like myself who only buy Spyderco knives. Was Benchmade providing an inferior product to their customers by not using the Spyderhole? Let me tell you, you can put a Mercedes emblem on a VW...but it's still a VW. So long made short the four hole argument about the Skirmish not violating Spyderco's trademark, combined with this mutually beneficial undisclosed agreement leads people like myself to the conclusion that Benchmade is owned by a bunch of slimy people, and I mean a LT/CS kinda slimy. So if I couldn't find a reason to buy a Benchmade before as I don't like thumbstuds, what's my motivation to buy an ersatz Benchmade Spyderco copy now?
Cheers!
 
Consider for a moment that round hole is better than oval hole is better than thumbstud is 100% subjective and in no way could ever be an objective argument. What works best for one may not work best for others. I personally love the thumbstud on my Gerber Paraframe II, unfortunately its a P.O.S. knife all in all, so I settled for the thumbhole of a spydie in order to have a better quality knife in many other ways.
 
Buck268 said:
Consider for a moment that round hole is better than oval hole is better than thumbstud is 100% subjective and in no way could ever be an objective argument. What works best for one may not work best for others. I personally love the thumbstud on my Gerber Paraframe II, unfortunately its a P.O.S. knife all in all, so I settled for the thumbhole of a spydie in order to have a better quality knife in many other ways.
Click to expand...

Who argued that the Spyderhole is "better"?

From what I can tell, Yablanowitz and I were the only ones to address your last post and your not addressing anything that we've typed about.
 
hmm must have passed those by... Well then I suppose I have one question to ask; you can trademark a physical feature such as the round hole? I thought (thought, not knew) that trademarks applied to words/name (ie; windows (tm) microsoft corp. <what-ever-year>), but I am far from a business savvy person.
 
Buck268 said:
hmm must have passed those by... Well then I suppose I have one question to ask; you can trademark a physical feature such as the round hole? I thought (thought, not knew) that trademarks applied to words/name (ie; windows (tm) microsoft corp. <what-ever-year>), but I am far from a business savvy person.
Click to expand...

I imagine that Sal has the good sense to get the appropriate legal advice for such matters. And since it already is trademarked, I don't see how it couldn't be trademarked.
 
Buck268 said:
hmm must have passed those by... Well then I suppose I have one question to ask; you can trademark a physical feature such as the round hole? I thought (thought, not knew) that trademarks applied to words/name (ie; windows (tm) microsoft corp. <what-ever-year>), but I am far from a business savvy person.
Click to expand...

Yes, a physical feature can be (and in fact has been) trademarked. If I recall correctly, the odor of Chanel#5 is trademarked.

Sal has posted that he went through all the required steps to trademark the round hole opener, including proving to the bureaucrats that there is substantial brand recognition tying the round opening hole to his knives. Now Benchmade is using this trademark on their products without acknowledging it as such. I wouldn't care if they were putting the circle R Spyderco in tiny letters next to the hole, just as Spyderco puts the Emerson patent numbers on the waved models. Credit where credit is due.
 
wotanson said:
Don't get your knickers in a twist, I was sincere in my comment.
Click to expand...
Knickers untwisted. Switch to the hole subject if you want.

Wasn't Benchmades "oval opening hole" touted for years by the company as "superior" to the Spyderhole?
Click to expand...
http://web.archive.org/web/20020124011619/www.benchmade.com/detail.asp?id=7595403259307&item=35
"All holes are not created equally. Benchmade?s new oval better accommodates varying thumb sizes, and we still finish bevel the edges for comfort."​
They said it was better in one way. Maybe they make other claims elsewhere, but that's the one I remembered. They don't specify a reason for going back to round, but they do say it's "a 'hole' lot better" (ha!).

I don't know what Spyderco wants someone to pay to use the hole, but then again I never heard anyone complaining it was too much either.

So long made short the four hole argument about the Skirmish not violating Spyderco's trademark,
Click to expand...
AA
AAA

Remember, we are now dealing with a trademark, not a patent on the function.

THIS, on the other hand, is about as stupid as if Spyderco were to sue this guy.

combined with this mutually beneficial undisclosed agreement
Click to expand...
It's "undisclosed" by Spyderco too.

That's about all I got to say about holes.
 
Spyderholes, ovals and thumbstuds all have strengths and weaknesses. At the moment, I think I prefer the spyderhole (it's certainly my favorite looking).

Benchmade is not evil because they're using the spyderhole. That seems to make no sense whatsoever...

I like that Benchmade is using, but I was hoping it'd be on one or two models...they're using it excessively now. I do wish they'd acknowledge Spyderco though--but this was Spyderco/Benchmade's agreement, so perhaps they had their reasons.

Benchmade probably won't be in the same bracket as Spyderco in 3 or 4 years anyway, unless there's a big shift I expect them to be more like CRKT. They are mostly just filling out the red class of foreign cheapie knives. Spyderco pulls the same stuff, but they call it Byrd, and it doesn't cheapen the brand name. So Byrd is already competing with CRKT range knives, but Spyderco remains pristine.
 
Buck268 said:
hmm must have passed those by... Well then I suppose I have one question to ask; you can trademark a physical feature such as the round hole? I thought (thought, not knew) that trademarks applied to words/name (ie; windows (tm) microsoft corp. <what-ever-year>), but I am far from a business savvy person.
Click to expand...
...snip
As any sign which is capable of performing the essential trademark function may qualify as a trademark, the trademark concept extends to include a range of non-conventional signs such as shapes (ie. three-dimensional trademarks), sounds, smells, moving images (eg. signs denoting movement, motion or animation), taste, and perhaps even texture. Although the extent to which non-conventional trademarks can be protected or even recognised varies considerably from jurisdiction to jurisdiction....snip trademark

========
Legal wrangling aside there seems to be a locust like hoard of people who find nothing wrong with the antics of certain compaines and how they legally behave raging all over Bladeforums. Morals are a personal choice. Do whatever makes you feel good or do what is right. They don't have to be mutally exclusive.
 
Morals are a personal choice. Do whatever makes you feel good or do what is right. They don't have to be mutally exclusive.
Click to expand...

Which is it though, what feels good or "what is right." If there's an objective what is right question operating, then morals aren't a personal choice. If morals were a personal a choice, that would just mean there are no morals (effectively).

But perhaps some sort of subjectivism or egoism is true and we really do decide all ethics for ourselves. If we, however, allow people to do whatever feels good, we're committed to letting murderers and slave owners run free--in fact, if you feel like murdering someone under this premise, you're down right obligated to do it.

If you mean that morals are a personal choice in that we can choose to be immoral, then I agree in that sense.
 
I am tired of the whole (pun intended) issue with the hole. My comment is directed at the guy who compares the bulk of the BM line to CRKT. You have a problem with the marketing of the Benchmade red line but are ok with the Spydie Bryd line. In your words it leaves their product line "pristine". Welcome to "Marketing Basics 101". If it makes you feel better than it must be all right. Both companies are doing the same thing, for the same reason, and probably from the same manufacturing region in China. If the use of an off name makes you continue your product loyalty while the inclusion of the product name doesn't than theres not much to say. When you send a Byrd in for sharpening, warranty, etc. where do you think its going? I like both product lines but the mud tossing and crying over the hole is over the top. Sal can manage his business. I have no inside information but I have common sense. He is either getting royalties or not. He either is pissed or not. Lastly, what was done was either legally defensible by Benchmade or not, either way the ball is in play. Bottom line, you either like the new BM line or not. Decide with your dinero.
 
There is no doubt in my thumb that a hole is a better opening design than an oval, regardless of the marketing drivel previously written by Benchmade (and they have written some of the very worst marketing crap). :rolleyes:

So I for one am very glad to see the marriage of a great opening mechanism (hole) to a great lock system (axis). Since Spyderco has publicly acknowledged that there is an agreement on this, I don't understand why anyone is pissing about it. :jerkit: :jerkit:

I am not an owner in Spyderco, so the terms of their agreement are meaningless to me. :yawn:

I don't use liner locks, so the Dejavoo is out. But the new Griptilian should be just awesome. In fact, think about it, to get the new Griptilian (550HG) required the contributions of these famous knife designers / manufacturers, in no particular order:

Bill McHenry
Sal Glesser
Mel Pardue
Les DeAsis

Throw on an Ernie Emerson fat "skull" clip and you have just an awesome package that no single designer would have ever dreamed up. Quit your whining, fork over your dough and be happy.:D :D
 
The oval hole has two advantages over the spyderhole--first, the knife doesn't have to be as wide closed (which isn't trivial...this has actually caused some problems for me, like with the d`allara dp, for instance). Second, I feel the oval hole is easier for spyder dropping...it automatically stops itself at opening (no squeezing harder to stop it necessary) as a different part of the hole gives more resistance there.

That said, I find the spyderhole easier to open conventionally and to flick, plus I like how it looks more.
 
pedropcola said:
Both companies are doing the same thing, for the same reason, and probably from the same manufacturing region in China. If the use of an off name makes you continue your product loyalty while the inclusion of the product name doesn't than theres not much to say.
Click to expand...

I think, when people speak of this issue, it's not about selling knives from china, but rather that Benchmade is now selling a different level of quality than that which earned a good image for their name, but still puts their name on it. Spyderco puts a different name on their Chinese product, so as not to encourage people to assume it is as good as the stuff people know Spyderco for.

Irony: Spyderco's (Byrd) Meadowlark is as good as a lot of their Golden products, but the Benchmade Vex is not as good as anything benchmade has ever made previously.
 
Carl64 said:
I think, when people speak of this issue, it's not about selling knives from china, but rather that Benchmade is now selling a different level of quality than that which earned a good image for their name, but still puts their name on it. Spyderco puts a different name on their Chinese product, so as not to encourage people to assume it is as good as the stuff people know Spyderco for.

Irony: Spyderco's (Byrd) Meadowlark is as good as a lot of their Golden products, but the Benchmade Vex is not as good as anything benchmade has ever made previously.
Click to expand...

I think BMs (failed) attempt to seperate their reputation from the Chinese made models was in the classes. It kind of works with me. When I think "red class" I do automatically think differently about it's quality and materials. But all in all, I still group them as "Benchmade".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top