New TV Survival Show - Alone

What I see is a bunch of guys who've sat under tarps for 3 days talking about their feelings.

No spears, no fire, no home made napalm. No victory.

Well that's the thing. You'd think that fire would be a major priority on the first day because of hypothermia and predators at night. I'd tarp my fire as a priority and shelter with local materials. I remember tarping above my fire years ago in the Boreal with my wife to keep it lit in a moderate rain. You would think that this would be instinctive to most people.
 
What I see is a bunch of guys who've sat under tarps for 3 days talking about their feelings.

No spears, no fire, no home made napalm. No victory.
i'm guessing its been edited to play up the drama, they keep showing footage of them with their families, and how much they miss them. (however, four days away from home? i'd be cheering if that was me lol).
at first i was annoyed with sam, but he seems to be the only guy enjoying himself out there so props to him.
 
Just finishing up the third episode and am about halfway through the comments but I thought I would share my thoughts on the show so far.

I don't think the suggestions to not judge anyone are very helpful. This is a unique experiment, basically an anthropological study of bushcraft and survival, so critical or even harsh comments may be just as useful as any other. We've all seen the comments on youtube channels and know about the trolling everywhere online, so given that these people are youtube bushcrafters selected for having online status they knew what they were getting into and probably shouldn't have gone on a show like this if they were worried about their egos. That's not to say trolling is acceptable, just that we should try to learn from this experiment and all of the comments made about it.

It is pretty clear that several individuals did not think the experiment through very well. Attacked by a dog as a kid and going to live in wolf territory? Never camped alone nor practised survival skills in bear country? Did not anticipate severe weather or wildlife encounters for a long-term camping/survival situation? These are basic aspects of common sense for anyone with experience, which leads me to believe they either had a poor selection process, wanted some drama from obvious failures, or these people boasted about their skills/willingness. The show characterises these people as "Trained Survival Experts" which also contributes to the feeling that something is not right. They should not have that tag on the show.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really liking the show and think it's a perfect concept. It's just that these people are not even close to being experts for the most part. A lot of them are weekend warriors (no offense intended with that term, it can be difficult today for some to get time off to go camping) and only three of them could be considered close to expert level in some of the skills (clearly they don't have the wide-ranging skillset of the experts either). I'd say Wayne, Lucas, and Mitch have the best skillset, and Mitch is really the only one close to having an expert mindset.

I also see that one of the individuals criticises the usefulness of the axe even though he lives in the Boreal. This and the fact he acted as though he never encountered a bear before, even when living in bear country, makes me question his knowledge and how much time he's actually spent in the woods. Another uses the edge of his axe to strike his ferro rod (from youtube instructionals). And Lucas goes into this location thinking he will build a log cabin, which is a 6,000-10,000 calorie a day activity. I think he has the best skills of all of them by quite a bit, but that attempt shows either a lack of knowledge or limited time practising these skills alone in the woods (which is very different from on the farm or in a skills commune).

I think this is an important consideration because it shows how lacking the focus on skills really is. Very few of them have the mindset, or the survival mentality, and on a similar series set in Alaska it was the same thing, people with the survival/bushcraft skills actually dropped out before the average joes. This makes me think of how camping has become. People don't like to hear this, but the vast majority of bushcrafters are dayhikers and amateur gear reviewers. Most trips are simply overnights or weekend trips. A very small percentage go regularly for more than a week let alone a month, and it was just 50 years ago when anything under a month wouldn't even be considered real camping.

People may see that as harsh or overly critical of the participants/bushcrafters. But I'm just trying to make an important point. Humans have become mentally very weak here in the Western world, it's not just the bushcrafters, and if we compared one of the individuals from 50-100 years ago with a low skillset to one of the bushcrafters from today it should be obvious who would win this competition. The mental fortitude of an old-timer would win out over all the fancy skills easily, and as we are seeing these skills actually seem to contribute to a feeling of overconfidence which can result in extreme drops in mental positivity/neutrality. In fact, it suggests to me that a lot of average people who live in rural areas would most likely do better than some of the bushcrafters selected for this show.

The fact that most of these people are crying about their families after four days, just an average camping trip, really suggests a lack of experience.

Again, don't get me wrong. I've camped out in cities where the rumbling of trucks makes it near impossible to sleep and then gone into isolated areas where the change to silence can near drive you mad, so I know how difficult a situation like this can be. And I absolutely hate permanent soaked conditions like they are in, so I sympathise with the difficulty. I just think there is a lot to be learned from this, so I'm thinking everything over.

I think the guy from Georgia is the best bet as he has a bit of an old-timer mentality. Or whatever they call them there, rednecks?

I was pretty disappointed in Joe. It was a bad mistake and then he just gave up. I mean, he didn't even try. He had a fire, an O1 knife, and an axe. He could very easily have kept the fire going. Really, in a situation like this keeping your mind occupied is crucial, so gathering firewood and staring into the fire is one of the best things to do anyway. I have no idea why they are thinking about having all these splitwood fires. Once you get the fire going, keep it going unless you're in a dry situation where a forest fire is possible. A splitwood fire for boiling water takes just as much effort as keeping a fire going. Get your wood, dry it out, build something to protect it. You have an axe, build a longfire and it's going to dry out a lot of area around your camp. If you really know how to use that axe you can do the work in a couple of hours.

Otherwise he could have resorted to tinder fungus. At worst he could have still tried to get fires going with a spark and some balsam resin (nature's gasoline), old man's beard, and fatwood. Heck, if you really wanted to do this you could build a water filter quite easily with moss, sand, and charcoal. Lots of options, and it was a great opportunity to learn, even if he could only hold out a few days or a week.

Wayne's bear encounter was quite unclear. Did he run? Seemed like it to me, which could have provoked an attack but in this case only seemed to get the bear to follow him into camp. I don't understand wallowing in fear. He had bear spray and a flare so why not at least try it? Bear spray will work. Even a flare should work. Being from New Brunswick where there are a lot of old-timers still around I don't feel like he has nearly as much experience as the show lets on.

I think making a spear and bear bat should have been priority here as well. Did none of these people read Kochanski before going into bear country? Because they sure do not have any bear country experience. Spears are crucial for defending a shelter, a knife is no substitute. And the bear bat could also be used as a throwing stick for small game - dual-purpose.

I question why one person brought a hatchet for long term survival, pretty useless. I'd also question the forest axe. Taking three tarps or four cutting tools also seemed a bit silly. Given the tarp as a free 11th item I'd certainly be taking a bible or some other favoured book. After a week or so, just reading a passage could lift your spirits for some time. Entertainment is crucial in tough weather by yourself. But perhaps such an item was disallowed.

The conditions are extremely difficult and I am unfamiliar with the area, but I find it hard to believe that they could not find a suitable camp location given a whole day to set up. Fire or shelter is priority depending on the situation and I didn't really see either from most of them until the second day. The first day is when they could afford to use some energy (they could hydrate and bulk up before this, which only makes sense when going into the woods) and getting a proper fire and shelter in this situation was crucial. Many have started off so bad largely because of that first day with poor shelter and no fire.

The bow and arrows seemed like a poor choice as well. I don't think any of them are actually experienced hunters, so it seemed like a wasted item. A slingshot or rat trap would be much better without bow-hunting experience.

I hope that doesn't come across as disrespectful of them, I'm just trying to learn from this and offer up some thoughts. It really does take guts to go out there and put your skills to the test, especially with everyone being able to watch you and criticise your every mistake from a safe spot.

Anyone know what time of year this was filmed? Starting in difficult wet conditions is probably not the best idea.

And any idea what Mitch used to start his fire? Definitely looks like spruce, and around here that is king for making fire in the wet. It's not quite as bad as Vancouver here, but can be close certain times of the year.

Anyway, I look forward to reading all of your comments and learning from this show. Hopefully all the guys learned a lot as well.
 
When Josh (police officer) tapped out after just one day, and then Chris on the third day, who said he was never more than an arms reach away from a gun outside or inside his house. I think, the experience of those two relied on their firearm to be able to do other survival tasks. They appeared weak without their firearm when the predator animals started to stalk them. Without the firearm they felt very vulnerable against the predator animals. Its a different situation from their experience where they're the predator of animals because of the firearm. Without the firearm, they instantly become the prey. I can't imagine the fear. I would be very scared in that situation.

It would be interesting to see how the other competitors responded or reacted to stalking by the predator animals. Are they just lucky to have last as long as they did because the wild animals didn't stalk they yet?

If I were to be dropped there, it would have been a quick "Hello-Bye" from me without leaving the helicopter.

These bears aren't stalking. The first situation with Josh was simply a curious bear, either looking for food or checking out this strange environment. Josh didn't say anything, he acted like prey. And then when he said, "Hey, Bear." the bear took off right away. Normal behaviour.

With Joe, he made a mistake. You don't make noise when a bear doesn't see you. The bear was moving around, either just getting water or looking for fish. Then he alerts the bear to his presence, not just a noise or really an assertive voice, and the bear then becomes attentive, warned. He is a little unsure where Joe is and is just trying to see what this potential threat is. Generally when an animal does not know the threat it should not run, and bears have very bad eyesight so they rely on smell and getting a general sense of size. He should have just moved on without alerting the bear after ensuring that it was a chance encounter where the bear wasn't following him (since it was a river chances are he wasn't being followed). Maybe go a hundred yards and change directions.

With Wayne it looked as if he was stumbling around in the night and then stumbled on a bear. Maybe that's editing or a dramatisation in the episode, but he was out in the night for some reason, which is generally a bad idea. And he says the bear just kept coming. It's more of a surprise encounter if the video is accurate, and his surprise and turning away is likely what caused the problem. Better to stand your ground, block the bear with trees, use your spray or whatever weapon you have. You can't outrun the bear so what's the point in trying to get away quickly? It just turns you into prey. It's the hardest one to judge because of the editing, but I don't think it was stalking. Although to be fair a surprise encounter like that is the most difficult to keep your wits about you, and his fear is understandable, but it seemed to me like he created a stalking situation.

Can anyone tell us how often people camp in these locations, how close it would be to parks or cottages?
 
All I know is I'd love to give it a whirl. :)

I'm not a "bushcrafter".
I'm not a "survival expert", or a mega-woodsman, or any snazzy label.
I'm just some guy raised in cities my whole life who likes to go out in the woods.

My skills are mainly fire and shelter, and being smart enough to avoid eating poisonous things...
I'd be interested to see how long I could go before I'd starve or something. :D (I don't know of many thing to eat...)

I wouldn't win unless everyone else got eaten by bears, but it would probably be fun to watch. :thumbup:
 
I don't disagree with you completely but the cameras likely take a good portion of every day and take away the ability to roll from one endeavor to another smoothly as they go about the business of surviving. It appears they have 4 game cams and a personal cam and extra batteries, that seems to be quite a bit of extra weight they had to carry and they had to set the game cams up the first day... so its not fair to say they actually had the whole first day to setup. Following days just looking around for food and whatnot they have to take the personal cam... again its weight and gets in the way. The entire Video requirement aspect makes it very hard to fairly judge, not only due to how it effects them in person but how the producers cut it to make each person appear.

I cant say I am not disappointed with how quickly people have left or think I couldn't do better, one thing to remember however is I am sure every single one of these guys would have thought the same thing watching the show if it was other people... I think the most important thing for surviving after mentality is the ability to properly judge ones own abilities and limitations.

Just finishing up the third episode and am about halfway through the comments but I thought I would share my thoughts on the show so far.

I don't think the suggestions to not judge anyone are very helpful. This is a unique experiment, basically an anthropological study of bushcraft and survival, so critical or even harsh comments may be just as useful as any other. We've all seen the comments on youtube channels and know about the trolling everywhere online, so given that these people are youtube bushcrafters selected for having online status they knew what they were getting into and probably shouldn't have gone on a show like this if they were worried about their egos. That's not to say trolling is acceptable, just that we should try to learn from this experiment and all of the comments made about it.

It is pretty clear that several individuals did not think the experiment through very well. Attacked by a dog as a kid and going to live in wolf territory? Never camped alone nor practised survival skills in bear country? Did not anticipate severe weather or wildlife encounters for a long-term camping/survival situation? These are basic aspects of common sense for anyone with experience, which leads me to believe they either had a poor selection process, wanted some drama from obvious failures, or these people boasted about their skills/willingness. The show characterises these people as "Trained Survival Experts" which also contributes to the feeling that something is not right. They should not have that tag on the show.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really liking the show and think it's a perfect concept. It's just that these people are not even close to being experts for the most part. A lot of them are weekend warriors (no offense intended with that term, it can be difficult today for some to get time off to go camping) and only three of them could be considered close to expert level in some of the skills (clearly they don't have the wide-ranging skillset of the experts either). I'd say Wayne, Lucas, and Mitch have the best skillset, and Mitch is really the only one close to having an expert mindset.

I also see that one of the individuals criticises the usefulness of the axe even though he lives in the Boreal. This and the fact he acted as though he never encountered a bear before, even when living in bear country, makes me question his knowledge and how much time he's actually spent in the woods. Another uses the edge of his axe to strike his ferro rod (from youtube instructionals). And Lucas goes into this location thinking he will build a log cabin, which is a 6,000-10,000 calorie a day activity. I think he has the best skills of all of them by quite a bit, but that attempt shows either a lack of knowledge or limited time practising these skills alone in the woods (which is very different from on the farm or in a skills commune).

I think this is an important consideration because it shows how lacking the focus on skills really is. Very few of them have the mindset, or the survival mentality, and on a similar series set in Alaska it was the same thing, people with the survival/bushcraft skills actually dropped out before the average joes. This makes me think of how camping has become. People don't like to hear this, but the vast majority of bushcrafters are dayhikers and amateur gear reviewers. Most trips are simply overnights or weekend trips. A very small percentage go regularly for more than a week let alone a month, and it was just 50 years ago when anything under a month wouldn't even be considered real camping.

People may see that as harsh or overly critical of the participants/bushcrafters. But I'm just trying to make an important point. Humans have become mentally very weak here in the Western world, it's not just the bushcrafters, and if we compared one of the individuals from 50-100 years ago with a low skillset to one of the bushcrafters from today it should be obvious who would win this competition. The mental fortitude of an old-timer would win out over all the fancy skills easily, and as we are seeing these skills actually seem to contribute to a feeling of overconfidence which can result in extreme drops in mental positivity/neutrality. In fact, it suggests to me that a lot of average people who live in rural areas would most likely do better than some of the bushcrafters selected for this show.

The fact that most of these people are crying about their families after four days, just an average camping trip, really suggests a lack of experience.

Again, don't get me wrong. I've camped out in cities where the rumbling of trucks makes it near impossible to sleep and then gone into isolated areas where the change to silence can near drive you mad, so I know how difficult a situation like this can be. And I absolutely hate permanent soaked conditions like they are in, so I sympathise with the difficulty. I just think there is a lot to be learned from this, so I'm thinking everything over.

I think the guy from Georgia is the best bet as he has a bit of an old-timer mentality. Or whatever they call them there, rednecks?

I was pretty disappointed in Joe. It was a bad mistake and then he just gave up. I mean, he didn't even try. He had a fire, an O1 knife, and an axe. He could very easily have kept the fire going. Really, in a situation like this keeping your mind occupied is crucial, so gathering firewood and staring into the fire is one of the best things to do anyway. I have no idea why they are thinking about having all these splitwood fires. Once you get the fire going, keep it going unless you're in a dry situation where a forest fire is possible. A splitwood fire for boiling water takes just as much effort as keeping a fire going. Get your wood, dry it out, build something to protect it. You have an axe, build a longfire and it's going to dry out a lot of area around your camp. If you really know how to use that axe you can do the work in a couple of hours.

Otherwise he could have resorted to tinder fungus. At worst he could have still tried to get fires going with a spark and some balsam resin (nature's gasoline), old man's beard, and fatwood. Heck, if you really wanted to do this you could build a water filter quite easily with moss, sand, and charcoal. Lots of options, and it was a great opportunity to learn, even if he could only hold out a few days or a week.

Wayne's bear encounter was quite unclear. Did he run? Seemed like it to me, which could have provoked an attack but in this case only seemed to get the bear to follow him into camp. I don't understand wallowing in fear. He had bear spray and a flare so why not at least try it? Bear spray will work. Even a flare should work. Being from New Brunswick where there are a lot of old-timers still around I don't feel like he has nearly as much experience as the show lets on.

I think making a spear and bear bat should have been priority here as well. Did none of these people read Kochanski before going into bear country? Because they sure do not have any bear country experience. Spears are crucial for defending a shelter, a knife is no substitute. And the bear bat could also be used as a throwing stick for small game - dual-purpose.

I question why one person brought a hatchet for long term survival, pretty useless. I'd also question the forest axe. Taking three tarps or four cutting tools also seemed a bit silly. Given the tarp as a free 11th item I'd certainly be taking a bible or some other favoured book. After a week or so, just reading a passage could lift your spirits for some time. Entertainment is crucial in tough weather by yourself. But perhaps such an item was disallowed.

The conditions are extremely difficult and I am unfamiliar with the area, but I find it hard to believe that they could not find a suitable camp location given a whole day to set up. Fire or shelter is priority depending on the situation and I didn't really see either from most of them until the second day. The first day is when they could afford to use some energy (they could hydrate and bulk up before this, which only makes sense when going into the woods) and getting a proper fire and shelter in this situation was crucial. Many have started off so bad largely because of that first day with poor shelter and no fire.

The bow and arrows seemed like a poor choice as well. I don't think any of them are actually experienced hunters, so it seemed like a wasted item. A slingshot or rat trap would be much better without bow-hunting experience.

I hope that doesn't come across as disrespectful of them, I'm just trying to learn from this and offer up some thoughts. It really does take guts to go out there and put your skills to the test, especially with everyone being able to watch you and criticise your every mistake from a safe spot.

Anyone know what time of year this was filmed? Starting in difficult wet conditions is probably not the best idea.

And any idea what Mitch used to start his fire? Definitely looks like spruce, and around here that is king for making fire in the wet. It's not quite as bad as Vancouver here, but can be close certain times of the year.

Anyway, I look forward to reading all of your comments and learning from this show. Hopefully all the guys learned a lot as well.
 
I was wondering about the parks and cottages because it may give us an idea of the bear behaviour. Generally speaking, any strange bear encounters become more frequent in these areas, due to garbage and green bins, and regularity of passive human movement.

Phoynix, you are correct. I meant to say something about that. Building shelter and gathering wood can be quite time consuming, so the additional tasks of setting up cameras and moving the equipment around can double your movement. I never understood the videos where people record themselves going down the trail, then they have to go back and deal with the camera, just like Mitch getting on his boat and then having to go back to grab the camera. That would be quite time-consuming. Not something I would enjoy doing.

I know people really like that Survivorman aspect to the show, but perhaps in the future they could have a cameraman there for the first two setup days, or maybe rely on a gopro camera. That would probably work better since the isolation has to be real and instantaneous for this show to work.

And I suppose that's why they choose the youtube guys, they are all used to dealing with camera equipment in the woods.

Anyway, looking forward to see how this plays out. It's much better having these normal bushcraft guys than all that Hollywood crap in most of the shows.
 
Chignecto, I don't think your thoughts were out of line, all valid points, I think main thing was keeping the thread from turning into a "I could do better" bash-fest. That stress level that the guys are facing is pretty intense, and the more hard-core they act the tougher it is to keep out of that feedback look. Ego is the killer. As for filming, I think they are doing go-pros or a similar tough-cam. I think the footage each guy gives shows how much extra thought energy they have left. Mitch's raft was empty and he was stripped, so I suspect he filmed his test run, then did the main crossing with the gear.

I was thinking today that semi, or pro athletes would be really effective in this type of show as they are used to dealing with performance stress, and can limit that aspect of it. I would say that's probably the most difficult part as far as I can see, it just magnifies the mistakes, and athletes learn how to bounce back from mistakes. (or they stick to rec league)

As for bears, really tough to say, I don't know if they have blacks as far east as new brusnwick, it could be that he might be more familiar with barren-ground griz, or maybe polar depending on where he's been. In which case being afraid of a black bear would be like being afraid of a tea-cup poodle if every other dog you'd met was a czech doberman, understandable in context. Hard to know. Population density matters too, if you know that seeing a bear is a once in a lifetime event, cool. If you realize that you are surrounded, could get into a guy's head.
 
Good points. That's something I am interested in, how exactly can people get this neutral mentality of survival? Kochanski's "Credo" in the front of all his pamphlets is a good example of the mindset, I think.

I didn't want to be too hard on Wayne as I've never had an encounter that close, I just wanted to learn as much as possible from what happened. He is definitely from black bear country, as I am pretty close to his area (similar population to BC, and it's also moose and coywolf territory so you should know the dangers here). In many places you can be assured of black bear sightings once a week or so, but I realise some places provide less opportunity for wildlife encounters. Watching his field videos suggests to me that he is in a more hardwood-dominant mixed forest region than I am, so bears would be a little less common, but here there is a hunting/hoseur culture and this stuff is in the local news regularly:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/5-safety-tips-when-encountering-black-bears-1.2074647

Hard to determine, but it looked to me like he broke several of the rules. The editing could also be unfair so it's hard to judge what really happened. And if this is the fall season when bears are preparing for hibernation the chances of an encounter go up significantly. Seems like a bad time to drop them off if that is the case.

Perhaps useful to mention the difference between types of nature as well. There are two philosophies in ecology now, one which basically suggests nature is a self-regulating system so all human intervention is detrimental, and another suggesting that human intervention is actually necessary for balance. Many national parks take the latter approach while everywhere else takes the former. National parks often relocate wildlife, spray for mosquitoes, and clear undergrowth, so if you are going anywhere other than a park you might end up experiencing a very different idea of nature.

Areas where people have not been involved in forestry, controlled burns, etc. can be a huge mess, and getting on takes a lot more effort. I say this because I suspect a lot of us primarily go to these park areas and might be in for a shock when it becomes ten times as hard to get around. I speak from experience as I used to primarily go to the park's backcountry and now primarily camp where the forestry industry has been dying. Not a defense of the forestry industry as it's become so destructive too, but the idea that people should not touch the woods ('no trace left') can create an impossible mess. It can be hard to walk in areas where the trees are choking each other out.

That seems to be slowing these guys down a fair bit.
 
Last edited:
I'm guessing spring for this. Past winter storm season but still plenty wet and cold.

Parks out there are not manicured; they're more like a preserve. No weekend cabins etc. All the times I was up there we were boating and only coming ashore to look for oyster beds.

The bush is very dense. You really have to push through it and if you're navigating by the back of your hand going in circles or overshooting is pretty well expected.
 
Yes, either shoulder season really increases your chance of an encounter, and post-winter the chances of an attack. Late May or June seems like a much better time to start this if there are wildlife concerns. That would give a better chance for shelter if the competition ran into these shoulder seasons.

I was just thinking with the timing of the show it may have been filmed more recently.
 
With the exception of Joe, I think Josh, Chris and Wayne tapped out because they didn't have their firearm in the presence of dangerous animals.

It was not the dense forest, the rain, the difficulty in making fire that pushed those three to tap out. It was the feeling of helplessness and vulnerability in the presence of those predator wild animals that pushed them to tap out. Would they tap out if they had their firearms with them?

That's the big difference with this competition. The security factor was taken away from the competitors. The were stripped of their firearms... the weapon that they were used to having in their hands in the presence of wild predator animals. They know they can take the wild animal with their firearm. Without the firearm how are they going to deal with those wild animals?

I think the competition, from episode 1 to episode 3, becomes a question of who can deal with predator wild animals without their firearm?
 
Yes, either shoulder season really increases your chance of an encounter, and post-winter the chances of an attack. Late May or June seems like a much better time to start this if there are wildlife concerns. That would give a better chance for shelter if the competition ran into these shoulder seasons.

I was just thinking with the timing of the show it may have been filmed more recently.

If it was late spring/summer the weather would have been too nice.
 
If you check some of their YouTube channels, it seems mid October is when they all left for filming.
 
Days getting shorter; not good for morale.

Fire really helps with that.
I've never minded the long nights as long as I had fire. :)

It would make getting things done during daylight hours more of a chore though.
 
No kidding.

Details like that are interesting though in the way they've stacked the deck on the contestants.

It's like they surveyed folks and said "what do you hate and what what discourages you most" then they put all those into the way the handled each one of them.
 
Back
Top