New TV Survival Show - Alone

No kidding.

Details like that are interesting though in the way they've stacked the deck on the contestants.

It's like they surveyed folks and said "what do you hate and what what discourages you most" then they put all those into the way the handled each one of them.

I think the producers stacked it against them out of fear for how long the show could last. I think they wanted winter as almost a hard stop for a lot of the guys. If they dumped them off late spring/early summer and conditions are favorable, those guys could better establish themselves (stockpile food, wood, etc.), and go months upon months. I'd love to watch it, but it seems the majority of people out there watching reality shows, do so for the drama, and the day to day 'survival' task would bore them (or at least the drama is what the producers seem to cater to).

I'd love to see a long cut version where they don't edit down so heavily and the moment of despair the guys show are few and far between like I'm sure they really were vs. every 5 f#@$ing minutes in the show.
 
I think they'll keep posting extended cuts on the website as the series progresses & they can do so without spoiling the final results.
 
I agree there seems to be extra drama. In the first episode, one guy was scraping his fire steel like a maniac into these giant curls. I'm so not a survival expert, but I was wondering what in the world he was doing. It was as if he had never tried to start a fire with a steel before. And the cop who was terrified of large animals camping in bear world! Unfortunately, it appears to be about what we should expect. It's Vancouver Island. The show needs a sasquatch! That would regain my interest:D
 
Sasquatch busy in Kootnays.

Seriously though can you imagine sneaking out into the bush with a gorilla suit and freaking them out? Brings to mind the visits from the fabled pink bunny.
 
As far as editing goes, I would suspect that whoever did the edit was under a tight timeframe, and might not have that much woods experience, if any. So they are slamming through hundreds of hours of footage, and trying to make a coherent story out of what's useable. Not an easy task, considering they are not going to have a whole book of shoot notes as context. Its all going to be pretty random, and they will be trying to sync up any of the multi camera footage that's possible. I noticed that they used a fair amount of B-reel footage (stock video) for some of the descriptions, and its very possible that some of the guys did some VO work, which adds another layer of difficulty. I'm glad they didn't do studio "confession booth" stuff, which would have been an easy filler. Production on a series like this would be very tough, and the budget would be quickly spent on the support team, so the edit guys would have to be much tighter. With a normal "reality" show, like auction hunters, or ghost hunters, the producer can "script" on the fly, get the shots they want, and the camera guys can do some of the hard edit work in-camera. syncing the shots, getting multi-angle, and sequencing. So the edits go easier. I would suspect the budget for the show would be sub 100K which given logistics and other factors doesn't leave much on the table. Quite a few shows run sub 50k but those are more the TCL follow the weird family style stuff.
 
I missed the first 2 episodes and am catching up now. The sympathy for Josh earlier in the thread is mystifying. The contestants were told what region they'd be in for the show and apparently Josh didn't do any research as to what would be there with him. Also he looked as if he was going to bust out crying as the boat was pulling away from him. He clearly hasn't spent much time alone in life, nor did he think that part of it through. That said, it should be an interesting show.
I was able to catch part of this show the other day. The whole encounter with the bears was as benign as you can get in the wild IMO. But I agree in that I wasn't there and I don't know what else was going on. How much of his ordeal did they cut out that you didn't see? It could have just been the last straw. It could also be that he just isn't familiar with animals enough. There are things that clearly mean danger and there are things that mean "hey person, go away!" Animals are easy but you do have to know a bit about them.
There is wet and there is WET... and these guys were WWETT!
Yep. When someone says "you can always find dry tinder"...yeah that's usually true. There are certain times and certain places when it just isn't. I was hiking through some old growth and stopped to make a quick fire and brew a tea. This was on Halloween after a couple of days of rain. Hadn't rained for more than 24 hours but I could not find ANYTHING dry. Nothing. Finally I had to do it with the dreaded batoning. Still had a dickens of a time getting it going because I rushed it. Good lesson learned that day. Take your time and do it right otherwise it takes twice as long. :D
 
I agree there seems to be extra drama. In the first episode, one guy was scraping his fire steel like a maniac into these giant curls. I'm so not a survival expert, but I was wondering what in the world he was doing. It was as if he had never tried to start a fire with a steel before. And the cop who was terrified of large animals camping in bear world! Unfortunately, it appears to be about what we should expect. It's Vancouver Island. The show needs a sasquatch! That would regain my interest:D
You've never used crazy style? :D Sometimes quick and repeated sparks can dry out tinder making it easier to light. I use this style most with old man's beard but I've done it with less than ideal tinder as well. Did he get the curls to light?
 
No. That technique is fine if you need to get a little heat going. I think his problem was more that he had a few thick curls/shavings randomly thrown together, down in the damp, and knocking them around a bit. None of the tinder was really connected so even though he got a flame there was nowhere for it to spread. Tough conditions but it didn't look like he knew how to get a fire with or even make curls, or he was frustrated.
 
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Just finishing up the third episode and am about halfway through the comments but I thought I would share my thoughts on the show so far.

I don't think the suggestions to not judge anyone are very helpful. This is a unique experiment, basically an anthropological study of bushcraft and survival, so critical or even harsh comments may be just as useful as any other. We've all seen the comments on youtube channels and know about the trolling everywhere online, so given that these people are youtube bushcrafters selected for having online status they knew what they were getting into and probably shouldn't have gone on a show like this if they were worried about their egos. That's not to say trolling is acceptable, just that we should try to learn from this experiment and all of the comments made about it.

It is pretty clear that several individuals did not think the experiment through very well. Attacked by a dog as a kid and going to live in wolf territory? Never camped alone nor practised survival skills in bear country? Did not anticipate severe weather or wildlife encounters for a long-term camping/survival situation? These are basic aspects of common sense for anyone with experience, which leads me to believe they either had a poor selection process, wanted some drama from obvious failures, or these people boasted about their skills/willingness. The show characterises these people as "Trained Survival Experts" which also contributes to the feeling that something is not right. They should not have that tag on the show.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really liking the show and think it's a perfect concept. It's just that these people are not even close to being experts for the most part. A lot of them are weekend warriors (no offense intended with that term, it can be difficult today for some to get time off to go camping) and only three of them could be considered close to expert level in some of the skills (clearly they don't have the wide-ranging skillset of the experts either). I'd say Wayne, Lucas, and Mitch have the best skillset, and Mitch is really the only one close to having an expert mindset.

I also see that one of the individuals criticises the usefulness of the axe even though he lives in the Boreal. This and the fact he acted as though he never encountered a bear before, even when living in bear country, makes me question his knowledge and how much time he's actually spent in the woods. Another uses the edge of his axe to strike his ferro rod (from youtube instructionals). And Lucas goes into this location thinking he will build a log cabin, which is a 6,000-10,000 calorie a day activity. I think he has the best skills of all of them by quite a bit, but that attempt shows either a lack of knowledge or limited time practising these skills alone in the woods (which is very different from on the farm or in a skills commune).

I think this is an important consideration because it shows how lacking the focus on skills really is. Very few of them have the mindset, or the survival mentality, and on a similar series set in Alaska it was the same thing, people with the survival/bushcraft skills actually dropped out before the average joes. This makes me think of how camping has become. People don't like to hear this, but the vast majority of bushcrafters are dayhikers and amateur gear reviewers. Most trips are simply overnights or weekend trips. A very small percentage go regularly for more than a week let alone a month, and it was just 50 years ago when anything under a month wouldn't even be considered real camping.

People may see that as harsh or overly critical of the participants/bushcrafters. But I'm just trying to make an important point. Humans have become mentally very weak here in the Western world, it's not just the bushcrafters, and if we compared one of the individuals from 50-100 years ago with a low skillset to one of the bushcrafters from today it should be obvious who would win this competition. The mental fortitude of an old-timer would win out over all the fancy skills easily, and as we are seeing these skills actually seem to contribute to a feeling of overconfidence which can result in extreme drops in mental positivity/neutrality. In fact, it suggests to me that a lot of average people who live in rural areas would most likely do better than some of the bushcrafters selected for this show.

The fact that most of these people are crying about their families after four days, just an average camping trip, really suggests a lack of experience.

Again, don't get me wrong. I've camped out in cities where the rumbling of trucks makes it near impossible to sleep and then gone into isolated areas where the change to silence can near drive you mad, so I know how difficult a situation like this can be. And I absolutely hate permanent soaked conditions like they are in, so I sympathise with the difficulty. I just think there is a lot to be learned from this, so I'm thinking everything over.

I think the guy from Georgia is the best bet as he has a bit of an old-timer mentality. Or whatever they call them there, rednecks?

I was pretty disappointed in Joe. It was a bad mistake and then he just gave up. I mean, he didn't even try. He had a fire, an O1 knife, and an axe. He could very easily have kept the fire going. Really, in a situation like this keeping your mind occupied is crucial, so gathering firewood and staring into the fire is one of the best things to do anyway. I have no idea why they are thinking about having all these splitwood fires. Once you get the fire going, keep it going unless you're in a dry situation where a forest fire is possible. A splitwood fire for boiling water takes just as much effort as keeping a fire going. Get your wood, dry it out, build something to protect it. You have an axe, build a longfire and it's going to dry out a lot of area around your camp. If you really know how to use that axe you can do the work in a couple of hours.

Otherwise he could have resorted to tinder fungus. At worst he could have still tried to get fires going with a spark and some balsam resin (nature's gasoline), old man's beard, and fatwood. Heck, if you really wanted to do this you could build a water filter quite easily with moss, sand, and charcoal. Lots of options, and it was a great opportunity to learn, even if he could only hold out a few days or a week.

Wayne's bear encounter was quite unclear. Did he run? Seemed like it to me, which could have provoked an attack but in this case only seemed to get the bear to follow him into camp. I don't understand wallowing in fear. He had bear spray and a flare so why not at least try it? Bear spray will work. Even a flare should work. Being from New Brunswick where there are a lot of old-timers still around I don't feel like he has nearly as much experience as the show lets on.

I think making a spear and bear bat should have been priority here as well. Did none of these people read Kochanski before going into bear country? Because they sure do not have any bear country experience. Spears are crucial for defending a shelter, a knife is no substitute. And the bear bat could also be used as a throwing stick for small game - dual-purpose.

I question why one person brought a hatchet for long term survival, pretty useless. I'd also question the forest axe. Taking three tarps or four cutting tools also seemed a bit silly. Given the tarp as a free 11th item I'd certainly be taking a bible or some other favoured book. After a week or so, just reading a passage could lift your spirits for some time. Entertainment is crucial in tough weather by yourself. But perhaps such an item was disallowed.

The conditions are extremely difficult and I am unfamiliar with the area, but I find it hard to believe that they could not find a suitable camp location given a whole day to set up. Fire or shelter is priority depending on the situation and I didn't really see either from most of them until the second day. The first day is when they could afford to use some energy (they could hydrate and bulk up before this, which only makes sense when going into the woods) and getting a proper fire and shelter in this situation was crucial. Many have started off so bad largely because of that first day with poor shelter and no fire.

The bow and arrows seemed like a poor choice as well. I don't think any of them are actually experienced hunters, so it seemed like a wasted item. A slingshot or rat trap would be much better without bow-hunting experience.

I hope that doesn't come across as disrespectful of them, I'm just trying to learn from this and offer up some thoughts. It really does take guts to go out there and put your skills to the test, especially with everyone being able to watch you and criticise your every mistake from a safe spot.

Anyone know what time of year this was filmed? Starting in difficult wet conditions is probably not the best idea.

And any idea what Mitch used to start his fire? Definitely looks like spruce, and around here that is king for making fire in the wet. It's not quite as bad as Vancouver here, but can be close certain times of the year.

Anyway, I look forward to reading all of your comments and learning from this show. Hopefully all the guys learned a lot as well.
+1. Very well put. Voice of wisdom right there.
 
These bears aren't stalking. The first situation with Josh was simply a curious bear, either looking for food or checking out this strange environment. Josh didn't say anything, he acted like prey. And then when he said, "Hey, Bear." the bear took off right away. Normal behaviour.

With Joe, he made a mistake. You don't make noise when a bear doesn't see you. The bear was moving around, either just getting water or looking for fish. Then he alerts the bear to his presence, not just a noise or really an assertive voice, and the bear then becomes attentive, warned. He is a little unsure where Joe is and is just trying to see what this potential threat is. Generally when an animal does not know the threat it should not run, and bears have very bad eyesight so they rely on smell and getting a general sense of size. He should have just moved on without alerting the bear after ensuring that it was a chance encounter where the bear wasn't following him (since it was a river chances are he wasn't being followed). Maybe go a hundred yards and change directions.

With Wayne it looked as if he was stumbling around in the night and then stumbled on a bear. Maybe that's editing or a dramatisation in the episode, but he was out in the night for some reason, which is generally a bad idea. And he says the bear just kept coming. It's more of a surprise encounter if the video is accurate, and his surprise and turning away is likely what caused the problem. Better to stand your ground, block the bear with trees, use your spray or whatever weapon you have. You can't outrun the bear so what's the point in trying to get away quickly? It just turns you into prey. It's the hardest one to judge because of the editing, but I don't think it was stalking. Although to be fair a surprise encounter like that is the most difficult to keep your wits about you, and his fear is understandable, but it seemed to me like he created a stalking situation.
+1. Good analysis.
 
Joe just shed some light on why he tapped out.

http://youtu.be/uy5GcbM8A6M

Interesting vid. Also interesting is Mitch's post of a supportive comment on this vid. In it he hinted about char. Expect he was hinting about F&S, though solar is another possibility.


Why did Joe quit? The usual reason in the backcountry: a series of bad choices.


Funny how looking back we can see that each and every one of our tough times (in or out of the woods) was preceded by a series of poor choices. Had we made even just one or two of those choices a little more wisely, we may have avoided the entire mess.


1. Time Management: Task Prioritization.

We need to look at what needs to be done and prioritize each task. Joe moved all his gear with him each time. Did he need to move at all? Did he need to move everything? Full ruck plus 60lb Pelican case of camera gear through rough terrain. That is a lot of exertion with little water and food. Obviously we should setup a base camp and travel light when scouting. Pace yourself. This decision set him up to be exhausted and dehydrated. That is never a good start.

Joe said he had six hours to hike with all that gear plus time to set up camp. Plenty of time if he had realized that the misson at that point was not about finding the perfect site. Rather the focus should have been about setting himself up for a good night's sleep then scouting in the morning.

He didn't have to do everything at once. Especially not knowing where he was going. That was a very poor choice. That initial decision set himself up for each of the succeeding poor choices in the chain that lead to him tapping out.


2. Time Management: Task Prioritization.

Joe stated that he "filmed everything". You have many tasks you must perform each day so you have to budget your time. You must be warm and dry enough, you must drink enough water (if potable water is not freely available you must restrict both activity and food) and in this case you must film some of the time. Ought to find time to improve your situation by finding and drying firewood, better location, food, etc as you can.

"When you fail to plan, you are planning to fail."


3. Time Management: Task Prioritization.

Dehydration: the bane and nemesis of human life. You HAVE to have enough potable water every day. At the very minimum one quart. Needing 5-8 quarts per day is not uncommon, especially working hard in the woods. Since they only have one 2qt pot to boil water in and no water containers (at least not initially), water and fire represent significant amounts of time and effort for each day. As does filming. Everything else needed to revolve around those three.

The thing with dehydration is it is so insidious. It will shut you down. If cold or hungry, you are well motivated to change things. At the temps they were in, it takes many hours of being cold to get yourself into serious trouble. It takes weeks without food to get into serious trouble. With dehydration it can sneak up on you before you realize it. Your decision making is affected and you may not notice it. It can take days to recover from having been dehydrated. I'd be absolutely astonished if most serious backcountry incidents did not include some level of dehydration as a causal factor.


4. Time Management: Task Completion.

Joe intended to put a lanyard on the ferro but allowed other tasks to get in the way. When you set a task for yourself, it is important to see it through.


5. Time Management: Task Completion.

Joe said that he always put his knife and firesteel in his jacket pocket and zipped the pocket closed. All except for one time... and that one time proved to be crucial.


6. Mental: Hope.

After the ups and downs of the preceding days, he was so crushed by losing such a critical piece of gear that he lost hope. He stated that in his mind at that time if he could make a mistake like that, then he didn't belong out there.


7. Mental: Perception.

The physical part of living in the woods is not that bad. There are plenty of tasks to be done yet if you pace yourself they take more time than effort. The mental part is where most fail. They don't discipline themselves to get things done in a timely matter, tasks pile up, then seem insurmountable. They aren't, not even then. They just *seem* that way.

In the mental game, perception is everything. What you perceive determines how you will act. How you act determines your results. The results determine the reality you have to exist through.


8. Mental: Expectations.

In his mind he failed. Thinking that is a death sentence to hope and optimism. In life, you have to keep a tight rein on your expectations and emotions.


While each played a role, I believe decisions #1 and #6 played the most critical roles in his tapping out.

Those of us who have spent much time in the woods have made all of these mistakes... and many more!! Just some thoughts from four decades of stomping the woods alone.*
 
I am not sure that Joe tapped out because of the loss of a firesteel. I suspect there was more to it.
 
It makes me want to puke watching some of these guys balling their eyes out after five days. Maybe they should have filmed a group of Boy Scouts. They would likely have lasted longer without crying and wanting to go home to mommy.
 
There was a lot of time spent prepping for the show. They were probably away from their families long before they set foot on their individual sites... and a long time to get back after it was over.

It is fun to dissect, analyze and critique what these guys went through. But the most it will ever be is an educated opinion from the outside, looking in. I saw fighters do this all the time... pros who should know better. Once you step into the ring, your entire perspective changes and you sometimes don't see what may be obvious to everyone else. It is one thing to discuss/suggest future strategies but I think the notion that you'd have done any better is at best, an assertion.
 
Just watched the last half of tonights episode . One guy tapped out , his water source was bad , made him somewhat sick . Are the contestants required to stay within a certain area ? A source of clean water is essential , for a half a million dollars boiling your drinking water is good idea .

At the end of the show one fellow had a cougar come a bit close to his bed . That would give you something to think about .
 
Very good points, duxdawg. If need be you can store your stuff in a safe location while scouting. I did this one time when I started hiking late and knew their was a storm starting the next day, so I just stored my extra stuff off the trail (in a clear spot I would remember, probably marked it with tape) and came back for it in the morning.

Joe's video sounds insightful as well, so I'll have to watch it.

I was a little confused by the tides only at night thing. Is Vancouver Island diurnal or mixed tide?

Poor Brant, that was an incredibly dangerous situation. I know that living on a tidal river the bore can carry seawater in at least 50 miles, so where he was getting water may have been salt water much of the day. Probably wasn't an infection since it would most likely take several days to set in, and I doubt hallucinations would be a first symptom. But I'm not as knowledgeable in that area as I should be, just guesses from what I've learned.

Great and bad news for Mitch. Getting a huge fish right away suggests he can get lots of food before winter. But dealing with a mountain lion won't be easy.

Pretty great episode.

Also makes me wonder about what Kochanski says on fasting, that if you can't get 1000 calories a day you should fast. But with drinking spruce tea, eating mushrooms, or other high-nutrient foods is this situation the same? Things like Vitamin C and potassium can be really crucial.
 
Just watched the last half of tonights episode . One guy tapped out , his water source was bad , made him somewhat sick . Are the contestants required to stay within a certain area ? A source of clean water is essential , for a half a million dollars boiling your drinking water is good idea .

At the end of the show one fellow had a cougar come a bit close to his bed . That would give you something to think about .

not sure, but joe and mitch both moved their camps to better spots. a couple of those guys haven't made fire yet. the show is starting to get good now that its down to five.
 
Everyone is separated by impassable rivers, mountains, and the ocean, so I guess the initial scouts tried to choose equal areas for everyone, and in a place where they couldn't get to each other. They can go wherever they want, doesn't look like easy going, but yeah, getting to fresh water is a priority (although maybe not when it's raining like that).
 
You've never used crazy style? :D Sometimes quick and repeated sparks can dry out tinder making it easier to light. I use this style most with old man's beard but I've done it with less than ideal tinder as well. Did he get the curls to light?

Nope, never lit that night. It was not his style which surprised me, but the giant curls. At least they seemed too large to me. Even with dry wood, it usually takes some fine shavings for me to get fire with a spark. But you're right, Crazy Style does work sometimes;)
 
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