New TV Survival Show - Alone

Rick Marchand said:
There was a lot of time spent prepping for the show. They were probably away from their families long before they set foot on their individual sites... and a long time to get back after it was over.

It is fun to dissect, analyze and critique what these guys went through. But the most it will ever be is an educated opinion from the outside, looking in. I saw fighters do this all the time... pros who should know better. Once you step into the ring, your entire perspective changes and you sometimes don't see what may be obvious to everyone else. It is one thing to discuss/suggest future strategies but I think the notion that you'd have done any better is at best, an assertion.
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Fair enough. But as you said, and as one would expect, they prepared for the show. I was just disappointed and ok, kind of disgusted, at the emotional break downs. I suppose that we all come to the table with different life experiences etc. When I was 14 I did six week army cadet camp and learned how to cut the apron strings. I lived on the streets of Toronto and Vancouver and hitch hiked across the country twice. I lived from southern Ontario to Vancouver Island, from the N.W.T. border to southern Sask. You learn to be adaptable and stand on your own two feet to survive. Were some of these people home bodies that never set foot past a 50 mile radius of home ? It just choked me off that some of these guys couldn't even last a freakin week without a melt down.
 
I agree with you their camp / survival skills are not too good. But they can wine like a baby girl very well.
 
upnorth said:
Fair enough. But as you said, and as one would expect, they prepared for the show. I was just disappointed and ok, kind of disgusted, at the emotional break downs. I suppose that we all come to the table with different life experiences etc. When I was 14 I did six week army cadet camp and learned how to cut the apron strings. I lived on the streets of Toronto and Vancouver and hitch hiked across the country twice. I lived from southern Ontario to Vancouver Island, from the N.W.T. border to southern Sask. You learn to be adaptable and stand on your own two feet to survive. Were some of these people home bodies that never set foot past a 50 mile radius of home ? It just choked me off that some of these guys couldn't even last a freakin week without a melt down.
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It is a tough call because I agree with everything you just said as well. I have seen someone who had a decade of hardcore training break down and weep at the realization that he was lost and had to spend a night in the woods. I don't know if it was a culmination of his years of training finally being put to the test... or the fact that with all his skills, he still managed to get lost. Either way, he did everything wrong and wound up finding a cabin in the morning. He was a wreck, all cut up and scraped, barefoot, exhausted and defeated. He later told me that he fell prey to the notion that if he walked another 5 minutes, he'd find a way out. I was in disbelief because I knew what he was capable of.

I think the majority of these guys are not prepared for the mental/emotional aspect of the game. In my opinion, the next day or two will tell all. Water is the biggie. Hunger is playing tricks on their bodies right now but in my experience, the pangs begin to subside after day 3... a second wind, so-to-speak.
 
Rick Marchand said:
It is a tough call because I agree with everything you just said as well. I have seen someone who had a decade of hardcore training break down and weep at the realization that he was lost and had to spend a night in the woods. I don't know if it was a culmination of his years of training finally being put to the test... or the fact that with all his skills, he still managed to get lost. Either way, he did everything wrong and wound up finding a cabin in the morning. He was a wreck, all cut up and scraped, barefoot, exhausted and defeated. He later told me that he fell prey to the notion that if he walked another 5 minutes, he'd find a way out. I was in disbelief because I knew what he was capable of.

I think the majority of these guys are not prepared for the mental/emotional aspect of the game. In my opinion, the next day or two will tell all. Water is the biggie. Hunger is playing tricks on their bodies right now but in my experience, the pangs begin to subside after day 3... a second wind, so-to-speak.
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Hmmmm, very interesting. This reply is an eye opener. I didn't expected a lack of emotional preparation as a factor. I am the last person here to brag up supposed skills, as I was pretty ignorant and I have learned a lot from this site in the last few years. And tried to apply it out there, with mixed results. About 4-5 years ago I got way too close to being lost in the Boreal and it scared the beejezuz out of me. I remember going through flashes of fear, worry, moderate panic here and then as I was making my way out. I remember basically forcing myself to mellow out and take stock. I at least had enough sense to bring some basics with me when I went in and the cheap little pin on ball compass helped a lot. Late in the day I popped out at a farm about half a mile from were I went in, so I was grateful. My clothes were partially shredded, I walked in pouch puckering bog water at times "as a short cut", ya right. I cleared back swimmers out of my bog water and I was to the point of basically not caring about that stuff anymore. So, ok, thanks. You have fully explained what I was not seeing...the mental break down....aspect of this show. I am still put off by how quickly some of those guys jammed, but at least it is a little more understandable now.
 
Just a general statement, The great thing about Alone is anyone can do this if they wish to try. A person can chose 10 items, go to the great Northwest and camp alone for two weeks and see how it feels. I'll stick to day hikes! Ha ha
 
Rick Marchand said:
I think the majority of these guys are not prepared for the mental/emotional aspect of the game. In my opinion, the next day or two will tell all. Water is the biggie. Hunger is playing tricks on their bodies right now but in my experience, the pangs begin to subside after day 3... a second wind, so-to-speak.
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I think so too. I also don't think many of them have been exposed to wild animals to any degree. It's different when you can always head for the car for "shelter" and protection. They have none. They can't really even climb a tree since both cougars and black bears can climb trees... the mental aspect.

I suspect the persistent rain is another factor. It would just wear on you..... and drag you down.

Was a bit surprised with the suspected drinking of brackish water. You would think they could just head a bit further upstream. But I'm not there. I read that high tide is during the day, so they could see just how far the ocean water moves on shore/up the stream courses.

Fire doesn't seem to be as important to some of these guys as I would think. I would consider it the No. 2 priority after drinking water. Most have tarps, so the shelter aspect is not too difficult and they have lots of time.
 
Knowing I had a satellite phone, bear spray, and flares in case of an emergency it wouldn't be so bad. But, I'm not there. I would, however, make some kind of a long spear to aid in keeping the critters from getting to close. None of them have made any weapons yet. It is easy to sit in my recliner and nit pick these guys.

Alan or the young kid will win it.
 
upnorth said:
Hmmmm, very interesting. This reply is an eye opener. I didn't expected a lack of emotional preparation as a factor. I am the last person here to brag up supposed skills, as I was pretty ignorant and I have learned a lot from this site in the last few years. And tried to apply it out there, with mixed results. About 4-5 years ago I got way too close to being lost in the Boreal and it scared the beejezuz out of me. I remember going through flashes of fear, worry, moderate panic here and then as I was making my way out. I remember basically forcing myself to mellow out and take stock. I at least had enough sense to bring some basics with me when I went in and the cheap little pin on ball compass helped a lot. Late in the day I popped out at a farm about half a mile from were I went in, so I was grateful. My clothes were partially shredded, I walked in pouch puckering bog water at times "as a short cut", ya right. I cleared back swimmers out of my bog water and I was to the point of basically not caring about that stuff anymore. So, ok, thanks. You have fully explained what I was not seeing...the mental break down....aspect of this show. I am still put off by how quickly some of those guys jammed, but at least it is a little more understandable now.
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This is a good point, and points to the feedback loop another poster mentioned. You can easily get emotional by yourself in the woods and then it just spirals until you can't perform normally.

Can you guys tell me how this shredding of clothes happened? I mean, what kind of clothes you had, the trees, and if you had any tool. I'm guessing black spruce and other spruce/fir trees choking each other out since you mentioned it was a bog, probably alders too. And I'm guessing if you didn't have a tool you basically had to resort to crawling in some areas.

I love Mors Kochanski's Credo, I guess the only question is how to employ it. Just teach yourself to slow down if things go wrong? I can see how reading it out loud would help, and I like taking one of the pamphlets in my pack. Other than that perhaps it is just more practise staying in the woods for longer periods of time. I wonder if all those who spend so much time with cameras in the woods filming are at a bit of a disadvantage, because in a sense they are performing for social media while in the woods. It's not really live, but everything they are doing is for an audience, and I think maybe this takes away from the sense of being alone.

“The bush is neutral. It is neither for nor against me. My comfort depends on what I can do for myself and how much I know about using the bush materials around me. Becoming angry, depressed or unhappy does little to help me in my situation. I will try to think positive thoughts and find ways to be thankful for what I have. When I am not sure of what to do I will stop, relax, and think out the situation before I act. I realize moving about when I do not know where I am or where I am going will make it more difficult for others to find me. My concern at this moment is to make myself comfortable for tonight. I shall shelter myself from wind, rain, or snow and build a fire to warm up. I will not let fear or panic rule my mind as this only works against me. The bush is inert. It is incapable of doing me harm.” – MORS KOCHANSKI, Credo from Pocket Handbooks.
 
Chignecto Woodsman said:
Can you guys tell me how this shredding of clothes happened? I mean, what kind of clothes you had, the trees, and if you had any tool. I'm guessing black spruce and other spruce/fir trees choking each other out since you mentioned it was a bog, probably alders too. And I'm guessing if you didn't have a tool you basically had to resort to crawling in some areas.
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Ripping clothing or getting scraped up comes with getting sloppy/uncontrolled performing tasks or traveling. Whether it's from exhaustion, anger, fear, etc...

I have fallen prey to this a few times. Especially when I know the end is near(not death but the end of a trek). After a long paddle to the takeout point you just don't seem to care as much about obstacles and such. On a portage, I once wandered from the trail. Not far, but enough that I should have turned back to find the beaten path. Instead, I decided to make my own way back and by the time I reached the trail again, I was all scratched to hell and ripped my wool pants. All this within two minutes. That was pure laziness and I paid for it. I can imagine how a little desperation or fear motivation would make it even worse.

I have been fortunate to have had some of the best teachers in the world... Fear, Laziness, Arrogance, Anger, Pain and Failure... MANY classes with Professor Failure.
 
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That's what I figured. I move a little slow in the bush since I hate dealing with branches. I guess all my childhood years spent getting smacked in the face by spruce branches while snowmobiling did me some good.
 
Episode 4 was great. I enjoyed watching Mitch overcome every problem that he faced. When he got thirsty he boiled water and drank it. When he realized his firesteel was wearing down too fast he made char material. And when he got hungry he deployed his gill net and caught a nice coho salmon. Don't know how he'll solve the cougar problem but I'm sure it will be fun to watch! Good stuff from Mitch right there.

I don't like seeing anyone make the tough decision to tap out and Brant was no exception. I most certainly cannot judge or second-guess any of these guys. While I do practice primitive skills and have several hundreds (if not thousands) of hours out in the backcountry camping, hunting, and backpacking, I have never been placed in to this same situation as these guys on Vancouver Island. And, while I would like to think that maybe I'd last a bit longer than some of them, there is absolutely no way of knowing. Like Rick Marchand already said, it is pure assertion at best. Much respect to ALL of those contenders.
 
I would like to tell my tales but too many think I made them up. But everyone has a breaking point. While alone in the Amazon, I was waiting for my guide. sleeping in a grass hut. I paid for a 2 week solo trip and we were to meet in a day. Outside a heard "shuffling" heavy breating outside my filmsy door. I had no gun and was hoping what ever the animal was would just leave and go away. It didn't. I was faced with a deciscion. Go out and face it or cower in the corner like a girl. It was a big taper looking for food. I admit I was scared but I opened the door to face my fate. No I am not impressed with these guys.
 
22-rimfire said:
I suspect the persistent rain is another factor. It would just wear on you..... and drag you down.

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I experienced that on the wet coast. As a kid from southern Ontario I was used to maybe a two day rain, then sunshine, not two weeks or more. The grayness of the weather bothered me noticeably when I was out there.
 
sams said:
I would like to tell my tales but too many think I made them up. But everyone has a breaking point. While alone in the Amazon, I was waiting for my guide. sleeping in a grass hut. I paid for a 2 week solo trip and we were to meet in a day. Outside a heard "shuffling" heavy breating outside my filmsy door. I had no gun and was hoping what ever the animal was would just leave and go away. It didn't. I was faced with a deciscion. Go out and face it or cower in the corner like a girl. It was a big taper looking for food. I admit I was scared but I opened the door to face my fate. No I am not impressed with these guys.
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Good for you to have the stones, that would be spooky. Remember this guy years back ?
http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html
 
That's an interesting read. I would disagree though that it was all luck, I'd agree more with the quote in there that he was smarter than most people give him credit for. It's just that smug Californian ecological buddhist attitude which caused him to believe he was one with nature and the bears, this actually resulted in very unnatural behaviour. It would take hundreds of years and many people to really become immersed in nature again, not just a lone guy and his ideology.

Werner Herzog's argument is better, and much more fair. It took a lot of guts to do what he did, and there is likely a deeper meaning behind what he was trying to do. He just failed, and his drive to live with bears eventually led him to his nemesis.

The important lesson here, of course, is that if you do have an attitude suggesting you belong there then your chances of a really dangerous bear encounter are less than one percent. What Treadwell did was go too far, he showed the other side in response to how irrationally afraid humans have become of nature. He showed how irrationally comfortable you can become in any environment.
 
Chignecto Woodsman said:
That's an interesting read. I would disagree though that it was all luck, I'd agree more with the quote in there that he was smarter than most people give him credit for. It's just that smug Californian ecological buddhist attitude which caused him to believe he was one with nature and the bears, this actually resulted in very unnatural behaviour. It would take hundreds of years and many people to really become immersed in nature again, not just a lone guy and his ideology.
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He was a recovering addict with a long history of NPS violations. Look up the "treadwell rule".

Chignecto Woodsman said:
The important lesson here, of course, is that if you do have an attitude suggesting you belong there then your chances of a really dangerous bear encounter are less than one percent.
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The Haida First Nations have some great folklore surrounding the raven and the bear. They thrived in the area that the show is filmed, Haida Gwaii (Quatsino) for over 13,000 years, alongside all animals, some now extinct like the cave bear.:eek:

Regards to the show, it's been interesting to watch to say the least. Glad to see the first salmon!
 
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gadgetgeek said:
Chignecto, I don't think your thoughts were out of line, all valid points, I think main thing was keeping the thread from turning into a "I could do better" bash-fest. That stress level that the guys are facing is pretty intense, and the more hard-core they act the tougher it is to keep out of that feedback look. Ego is the killer. As for filming, I think they are doing go-pros or a similar tough-cam. I think the footage each guy gives shows how much extra thought energy they have left. Mitch's raft was empty and he was stripped, so I suspect he filmed his test run, then did the main crossing with the gear.
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I think the "I could do better" posts are all but inevitable because many people do have at least some experience in the woods and it's very easy to Monday morning quarterback from behind a dry, warm computer screen. I suspect most people really have no idea how wet the pacific NW gets and how the constant drizzle and overcast can sap anyone's morale.

gadgetgeek said:
I was thinking today that semi, or pro athletes would be really effective in this type of show as they are used to dealing with performance stress, and can limit that aspect of it. I would say that's probably the most difficult part as far as I can see, it just magnifies the mistakes, and athletes learn how to bounce back from mistakes. (or they stick to rec league)
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I disagree, and here's why. Athletes, especially professionals do almost nothing on their own. They have team mates, trainers, coaches, agents all there to help them every step of the way, tell them what to do and when to do it. Sure they have experience dealing with high pressure but they would be extremely out of their element to be completely alone and on their own with no one to tell them what to do, help them out or lean on. On top of that it seems (I may be wrong) that most pro athletes are also very urban creatures and would be very stressed by the wildlife, as much or more than we've seen from several of the contestants who have already tapped out.
 
Haakon, good point, I guess all things being equal, say a couple weeks intensive training, so the basic skills were there. But you'd be surprised how many pro athletes are the small town type. But that's not the point. it could be NASCAR drivers or pro-bull riders. heck even competition marksmen.

In my experience working with athletes at different levels, the ones that thrive are the ones who self-motivate. A player can have very good skills on a practice day, but the guys who hold together on game day are the ones that shine. Its like how a lot of really promising college quarterbacks have really rough first seasons when they hit the NFL, the pressure is a factor they need to get used to. And some of the greatest quarterbacks, or NHL goalies, or all star from whatever sport you want, seem to just never get flustered, they always seem to have more time than anyone else. That doesn't come from a team. I've watched a lot of coach locker-room speeches. They don't tend to do much. Either the players get focused and play on their own, or they don't. There is a team aspect, but I'd say its more like 30%, and its optional. Good athletes don't need it. To play the game, yes players have to play together. But its self motivation that brings a player back from a missed shot, a big hit, or a mistake. Players that need to have their ego stroked to get back in the game don't get into the bigs, or even the minors. They stick to beer league.

I think its the pressure, and most people just don't do it as well. If I set a challenge that in six months, we would have a shoe tying challenge, televised, with half a mil on the line, people would choke. Skill doesn't factor in at that point, its how you handle the pressure.
 
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