Newbie collaboration knife?

I like this latest version of the design. A LOT! These pieces are completely different than what I had envisioned when we began. However, that is not a bad thing, because I love these designs and think they are a lot better than what I had in my head when we began. There seems to be a little bit of each of us here. We're to the point where I think we need to begin to transform our vision into reality. I'm opening the design up to a vote.

Please vote here, by posting "yes" or "no" to this thread.

If you vote "yes", you're voting to go with these designs.

If you vote "no", you're voting to discuss further and refine the designs.

Majority rules.

Each of us had previously rated our strengths and weaknesses and expressed the three tasks that we would like to perform. If more than half of the votes are "yes" to this design, then I'll put together proposed task assignments based on our previous work on "Strengths and weaknesses" and our list of "Preferred Tasks".

Ickie
 
The voting:
I received three yes votes via email. The voting tally as of right now is:
Yes = 4
No = 0

How about the rest of you?

Steel choice:
On the steel choice. We are leaning towards a twist damascus. We had considered a pool and eye, but were concerned about the strength of the hawk with a pool and eye pattern. Punching the eye for the handle through a pool and eye might tend to pull the layers apart. A twist pattern will be a lot stronger from a steel standpoint.

Are there any objections to a 1084/15N20 twist damascus?

Ickie
 
I'm not one of the makers, but if you would let me I would like to say that I would like to see twist pattern. Just because that is my favorite pattern.:thumbup:

-Mike Sheffield
 
Not from me. Twist with 1084 would be perfect. And my vote is a yes for patterns.
 
I just got back this weekend from a two week trip. Sorry that I haven't been as on top of this lately. I've got the requests for tasks in and we've settled on the designs submitted above (by a landslide).

I'm putting together a partial tasks list. We don't have volunteers for all of the tasks yet, but we'll get there. Keep watching for an update within 24 hours!

For now, just to get the ball rolling, I suggest the following to get us started. If you're not on this list, don't worry, you have requested tasks that are further down the line in the process and will be on the list that I put together within 24 hours.

For now:
I nominate Deker to make the damascus for the project.
Joe Mandt will be forging the bowie.
I (Scott Ickes) will be forging the hunter.

Important:
Do we have a volunteer to forge the hawk? It would be preferable if the person forging the hawk, has actually forged one successfully in the past. Any volunteers? Mr. Cantrell or Mr. Bennett? You appear to be the two strongest forgers remaining.

Ickie
 
Now that we are ready to begin making these pieces we will need to have shipping addresses and phone numbers, so that we can communicate better and move the materials and the project back and forth between us. Please email your phone number and shipping address to me at scott.ickes@timken.com. Once I have them all, I will send them out to the group in an email that only has newbie group members on the distribution list.

Deker and Joe Mandt:
The three of us and whomever is our "hawk forger" will be involved quite early and heavily. It's important that we stay in touch.

Joe Mandt:
You and I will need to supply Deker with the dimensions of our starting billet.

Deker:
Do you need any raw materials to begin making the damascus.

Any of the team may call me at (330) 284-3103 with questions.

Ickie
 
Jared Stenoien said:
My emails are bouncing, anyone else having trouble? I'm trying to send the drawings I made. Also, the last email I received was on Tuesday morning from the group.
Click to expand...

Uh oh...that's what I get for not paying attention around here...I just sent a test message to the group, let's see who gets it.

-d
 
Since I'm not certain if folks got the comments I sent to the mailing list at this point, here were my design comments:


- I think that the spanish notches/curlys may be a bit much. Especially as pictured these would be hellacious to do right. The interior of the curls are very tight and would be very hard to clean up properly. Just a simple spike on the 'hawk maybe and just knock the blade choils to a rounded shape maybe?

- The cap on the 'hawk is (to my eye) quite oversized. Whlie I think a decorative cap is a nice touch, as pictured I just think "mushroom". If anything I'd say maybe a cap the same size as, or slightly smaller than the haft itself.

- We may want to consider adding a thin black spacer (or small stack of black/silver spacers) between the guard and handle. It will help to avoid scorching the wood if the guard gets slightly overheated in grinding.

- Maybe a lanyard hole on the big knife? If it's ever used for chopping, safety should be a prime concern.

In general my comment is that I think we have some good, solid shapes, etc here, but I think that if we concern ourselves with embellishments too much we could end up letting that run the show rather than purely concentrating on good, solid construction and clean, simple design. I know we're all excited, but we're all also newbies and still need to concentrate on basics a good deal.

Now to address Scott's questions:

- 1084/15n20 would be my choice
- I just got an order from Kelly Cupples yesterday, and have plenty of other steel to boot.

And other comments:

- I think we should exchange contact info on the email list. I personally don't like to broadcast such stuff in public forums.
- Does anybody in the group live nearby somebody who does 'hawks that they might be able to get some tutelage from? Odds are that this one will have to be constructed from barstock of about 1 1/4" square rather than the "wrap & weld" method. Somebody near Joe Szilaski? :) Heck, if he'd be willing to teach somebody, I'd drive to New York to learn ;)

-d
 
deker said:
Since I'm not certain if folks got the comments I sent to the mailing list at this point, here were my design comments:


- I think that the spanish notches/curlys may be a bit much. Especially as pictured these would be hellacious to do right. The interior of the curls are very tight and would be very hard to clean up properly. Just a simple spike on the 'hawk maybe and just knock the blade choils to a rounded shape maybe?

- The cap on the 'hawk is (to my eye) quite oversized. Whlie I think a decorative cap is a nice touch, as pictured I just think "mushroom". If anything I'd say maybe a cap the same size as, or slightly smaller than the haft itself.

- We may want to consider adding a thin black spacer (or small stack of black/silver spacers) between the guard and handle. It will help to avoid scorching the wood if the guard gets slightly overheated in grinding.

- Maybe a lanyard hole on the big knife? If it's ever used for chopping, safety should be a prime concern.

In general my comment is that I think we have some good, solid shapes, etc here, but I think that if we concern ourselves with embellishments too much we could end up letting that run the show rather than purely concentrating on good, solid construction and clean, simple design. I know we're all excited, but we're all also newbies and still need to concentrate on basics a good deal.

Now to address Scott's questions:

- 1084/15n20 would be my choice
- I just got an order from Kelly Cupples yesterday, and have plenty of other steel to boot.

And other comments:

- I think we should exchange contact info on the email list. I personally don't like to broadcast such stuff in public forums.
- Does anybody in the group live nearby somebody who does 'hawks that they might be able to get some tutelage from? Odds are that this one will have to be constructed from barstock of about 1 1/4" square rather than the "wrap & weld" method. Somebody near Joe Szilaski? :) Heck, if he'd be willing to teach somebody, I'd drive to New York to learn ;)

-d
Click to expand...

I agree with all of your design suggestions. Simpler and cleaner is the direction that we should go.

I do have a concern about the hunter design though. We had talked about it being a full tang hunter, but our drawings are more than likely better suited to a hidden tang design. Do any of our stock removal experts have confidence in making this style of a bolster on a full tang hunter? I'm hoping that one of you will step forward and say, I can make that bolster!

Another question about material. What will we be using for the bolster material? Any suggestions?

As far as contact information, that is why I suggested emailing it to me, so that we could share the information among ourselves only.

I live near a maker of exquisite hawks, however, I'm already forging the hunter. I feel strongly that we should have three different forgers, to go along with you making the damascus. If someone else would like to forge the hunter, I would be willing to explore some education in forging a hawk.

I'm still looking for a volunteer to forge the hawk, or to forge the hunter in my place, freeing me up to forge the hawk.

Ickie
 
scottickes said:
I live near a maker of exquisite hawks, however, I'm already forging the hunter. I feel strongly that we should have three different forgers, to go along with you making the damascus. If someone else would like to forge the hunter, I would be willing to explore some education in forging a hawk.

I'm still looking for a volunteer to forge the hawk, or to forge the hunter in my place, freeing me up to forge the hawk.

Ickie
Click to expand...

Oops! I should have read my emails before checking this thread. We have a volunteer for the hawk. Michael Cantrell!! Thanks for stepping up Michael.

Ickie
 
Jared Stenoien said:
I can do the curlies. I did them on one other knife I've made.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that you'd do them before HT and then clean them up after HT for us. Is this correct?

Since you have confidence in doing this, I'm very comfortable with keeping them in the design.

Ickie
 
I'd do them after heat treat, using diamond files. I'd just need to drill the holes beforehand and someone else in the process could do that.
 
This is the curly maple donated by Stacy Apelt to our project. Measurements for the two pieces are:

  • 1" x 1-5/8" x 17-3/4"
  • 1-1/2" round x 8-5/8" long

Based on our drawings, we need:

For the hawk, a piece that is 17-1/2" long. The 1" x 1-5/8" will work for this.

For the hunter and the bowie:

Hunter: 4" piece
Bowie: 4-1/2" piece

The round will work for these two pieces.

We don't have any extra for mistakes, so we'll have to be careful with our handle materials.

Please post your appreciation to Stacy Apelt here for the generous donation of Curly Maple from the shop of the "Master" Bill Moran in this thread!

Thanks Stacy, your generousity will be remember.

Ickie
 

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Jared Stenoien said:
I'd do them after heat treat, using diamond files. I'd just need to drill the holes beforehand and someone else in the process could do that.
Click to expand...

If this is the plan may I put forward a suggestion for the "forge thick and grind thin" method. If we're introducing holes into the pre-HT blade, those will be points that can easily crack in the quench. If we HT the blades relatively thick (I usually go about 1/8" or more at the edge) there's less chance of that. In addition, doing this will provide more opportunity to uncover the pattern in the damascus with the grinding. People don't always realize what a big difference that grinding makes (especially in the twist-based patterns).

Just my $.02 again....

And a BIG thanks to Stacy for the handle material. You're the man Stacy!

-d
 
deker said:
If this is the plan may I put forward a suggestion for the "forge thick and grind thin" method. If we're introducing holes into the pre-HT blade, those will be points that can easily crack in the quench. If we HT the blades relatively thick (I usually go about 1/8" or more at the edge) there's less chance of that. In addition, doing this will provide more opportunity to uncover the pattern in the damascus with the grinding. People don't always realize what a big difference that grinding makes (especially in the twist-based patterns).

Just my $.02 again....

And a BIG thanks to Stacy for the handle material. You're the man Stacy!

-d
Click to expand...


I agree. If there is any decarb during forging, it will be ground off if we leave it thicker. I leave the edge at least the width of a dime, if not more. The little curly cue choil will be very susceptible to overheating also. If it does get overheated on any of the pieces, it will have to be ground off on not just that one piece, but all on all of the pieces to keep the theme the same on all of the pieces. It is definitely a place that we'll all have to be very careful with!

Ickie
 
I can probably wrangle the bolsters / guards for both hunter and chopper. I was thinking nickel silver but up to vote of course.
I've done guards and standard bolsters in NS and brass. I assume the full tang will be a U channel guard / bolster? Attached and reinforced via single center pin?
 
I would suggest you change that profile of the hunter if you're going to go with a full-tang. Yes, you can put bolsters on a piece like that, but why? You're going to raise all sorts of problems. Keeping the entire bolster face completely flat to the tang, so as to not have ANY line showing around the bolster will be very difficult.

It's an easy enough design element if it were to be a hidden tang and all of that curly stuff was ground out of a billet of 416 or nickel silver.

One other suggestion, is I would go back to the design BEFORE the fronts of the guards were shaped like that. It increases difficulty in getting a clean and true surface for the blade shoulders to meet up to, and I think it takes away from the strong lines of the knife. The flat faced guard matches well with the sharp plunges and doesn't force your eye to STOP on that spot.

Just some suggestions... it looks like everything's going great. I'm excited to see this set when you guys get it done! :D :thumbup: :cool:
 
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