Newbies Forum - and Poll

Should Shop Talk Have a Change

  • Leave Shop Talk as it is

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Add a Newbies Forum

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Add an Experienced and Learning Makers Forum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
How about this: Before you can post in this forum have a sub forum for introductions with that big ass standard responce with all the basic knife making info on it, either emailed or auto posted to every new guy topic; then have a mod approve access to this forum from those introductory posts. I know if this forum becomes only availabe to paid members or posting is only available to paid members I'm not going to visit here as much or at all, if that happens I predict the knifedogs forums getting a lot more traffic.

On a side note, I know I'm a newcommer but I've gotten the impression from just skimming over the recent topics that some of the guys here are kinda elitests. Maybe that comes with the personallity of a fulltime knifemaker though, it's not exactly a sociable job I'll give you that. Some of you guys need to lighten up.
 
setlab said:
On a side note, I know I'm a newcommer but I've gotten the impression from just skimming over the recent topics that some of the guys here are kinda elitests. Maybe that comes with the personallity of a fulltime knifemaker though, it's not exactly a sociable job I'll give you that. Some of you guys need to lighten up.
Click to expand...

Not everyone suffers fools gladly. That doesn't make them an elitist. Try to look at this from the point of view of a serious professional. New people with weak skills asking questions is one thing, but having your time and patience wasted time and again, year after year, and a person grows a little weary of it. Add disrespect and unnecessary drama and you see a lot of the real content creators leaving.

Giving the real content creators a space of their own, insulated from the fray, might encourage them to stick around a while longer.
 
In hate getting drawn into an argument, but how on earth can someone call anyone in Shop Talk elitist.

Elitist- a person (or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society:

The makers who ask people to read the stickies, fill out their profile, or use know steel aren't being elitist...they are trying to help the person.
Shiva Ki may be an elitist, but Nick, James, Rick, Shawn, and a host of others are just guys who get fed up with all the drama they get while trying to help.
I have never heard any member of the old timers say, "I am the greatest, and all others are below me." I have heard some similar sounding statements from new members in their first posts.

Sorry for the rant.
 
Last edited:
Nathan the Machinist said:
Not everyone suffers fools gladly. That doesn't make them an elitist. Try to look at this from the point of view of a serious professional. New people with weak skills asking questions is one thing, but having your time and patience wasted time and again, year after year, and a person grows a little weary of it. Add disrespect and unnecessary drama and you see a lot of the real content creators leaving.

Giving the real content creators a space of their own, insulated from the fray, might encourage them to stick around a while longer.
Click to expand...

I get what you mean, if only knife makeing was more of a wide spread craft like say machine work is; then there would be a larger base of craftsmen and more profesional colaboration. Nothing is forceing the more established guys here or the most talented guys to reply to all the "how do I" topics and that isn't quite the same as getting phone calls or emails constantly asking the same stuff, though I can see that happening occasionally. But if that kind of stuff is enough to keep guys away, well it sucks but so be I guess in my opinion.

Disrespect and drama if it ever existed here is all in the eyes of the reciever, I really can't see how that would be present in a technical forum like this unless someone was dead set on being a jerk. I say grow some thicker skin and stop feeding the trolls with replys if someone is haveing that particular problem.
 
Last edited:
bladsmth said:
In hate getting drawn into an argument, but how on earth can someone call anyone in Shop Talk elitist.

Elitist- a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society:

The makers who ask people to read the stickies, fill out their profile, or use know steel aren't being elitist...they are trying to help the person.
Shiva Ki may be an elitist, but Nick, James, Rick, Shawn, and a host of others are just guys who get fed up with all the drama they get while trying to help.
I have never heard any member of the old timers say, "I am the greatest, and all others are below me." I have heard some similar sounding statements from new members in their first posts.

Sorry for the rant.
Click to expand...

One doesn't need to state "I am better then you" to fall into the elitist category. If a skilled maker rarely ever posts or stops coming here all together only because there is a lot of new guys who ask a lot of dumb questions without searching for answers first would they fall into the elitist category just a little bit? I say yes. After all isn't the premise of creating a segregated forum to keep all the new guys out of even slightly elitist?
 
Just a couple thoughts....

To me, the goal here should be to separate those who are serious and committed to making knives from those who will just be with us long enough for the next fad in their life to come along. Everybody is new at one point, and being new is not the issue. New guys that have respect and read a little more than they post do just fine here.

This forum operates on paid membership, and if you're serious I don't think a Basic membership is asking too much. It is not a sure fire solution, but I believe it will help some of the problems.

As Nick and Nathan have alluded, asking a really generous and skilled maker to pay to post is not a sensible way to attract the top guys back.

So, with all that in mind, my preference is for the skilled and learning knife makers forum, and you must be at least a basic member or invited and sponsored by someone here. The spronsorship was Nathan's idea and I believe it's a good one. Any member would still be allowed to lurk in the skilled/learning forum.

My .02, worth every penny!
 
OTK said:
As Nick and Nathan have alluded, asking a really generous and skilled maker to pay to post is not a sensible way to attract the top guys back.
Click to expand...

Another point to consider is that it isn't sensible to expect a skilled/generous maker to provide someone with basic information that they could find on their own with just a modicum of diligence. As OTK pointed out, this isn't about new people. This is about ill-mannered people.
 
I think the most sensible solution is a required reading section. The stickies at the top are a great start. Growing and organizing that into something in which anyone can look quickly and easily to find all the basic info needed to begin knife making, up to serious design considerations would eliminate a lot of time and trouble answering newbie questions. The compendiums put together be The Count and bladsmth to which they responded to my first posts are amazing and insightful. That sort of info is an invaluable reference, and should be exactly the sort of thing newbies look for/to.

Perhaps something more like a wiki or table of links? That won't eliminate dumb questions but it certainly makes it so any of us, not just the masters, can go pull a link and say "read this." Rather than newbs asking questions which go unanswered or else those who know constantly typing out the same answers.
 
I used to spend a lot of time at a traditional longbow forum before I started making knives. It's a really friendly place and I don't think I have ever seen any of the problems that Shop Talk has.

This is the Boywers Bench subforum, it's the Shop Talk of the forum. Look through there. Yes people ask newbie questions, yes there are buildalongs of first bows, occasionally there's a what wood is my deck rail thread. But they are polite and courteous and respectful to everyone.

Look at the first thing someone sees when they go to http://www.tradgang.com. I really think it has an effect.

If it is possible to put a page like that here that you see before entering Shop Talk, I think it would help immensely. In my very humble opinion, a little more respect for people, newbies and experienced makers alike, is what Shop Talk needs more then anything else.

Cheers
 
OzarkMatt said:
I used to spend a lot of time at a traditional longbow forum before I started making knives. It's a really friendly place and I don't think I have ever seen any of the problems that Shop Talk has.

This is the Boywers Bench subforum, it's the Shop Talk of the forum. Look through there. Yes people ask newbie questions, yes there are buildalongs of first bows, occasionally there's a what wood is my deck rail thread. But they are polite and courteous and respectful to everyone.

Look at the first thing someone sees when they go to http://www.tradgang.com. I really think it has an effect.

If it is possible to put a page like that here that you see before entering Shop Talk, I think it would help immensely. In my very humble opinion, a little more respect for people, newbies and experienced makers alike, is what Shop Talk needs more then anything else.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Well said. The only change neccessary IMHO is a basic code of RESPECT, which is sorely lacking in society these days, and unfortunately often lacking here as well.
Darcy
 
Guys, you are reading way more into this than there is.
No one is segregating the members, and no one is rating the level of experience and deciding who gets to post where.

The suggestion I favor is to leave Shop Talk exactly as it is. Anyone can post there and anyone can answer. There will be more moderation of sarcastic comments and hopefully more direction from the more experienced makers. Perhaps we can condense the FAQ and Good Info stickies into a "New Members - Read This Before Posting" sticky, along with some other good beginner advice and the good search engine.

There will be a new forum for discussion of more advanced topics and procedures. This should be open to any paying member, just like Around The Grinder is now. Any threads posted in this forum that should be in Shop Talk will be moved.


A lot have suggested some sort of "read first" section, or a similar thing. That is what the Count already does. The problem is the folks here don't leave it at that. After the Count posts his "Standard Reply", there will be 20 other posts of "read the stickies" and such. Some will post unkind comments. Everything past the Count's post is usually unnecessary. I don't favor locking a new persons thread just to keep him and others from posting. Instead, we should all learn to just hit the back button when the question has been addressed. The same goes for people who annoy you with a bad knife or silly post...... Just don't post a reply.
 
I have failed at times to keep my mouth shut. Everyone does at times.

If I let someones post bother me the key words are really "I LET"

If I disagree with some ones methods or opinion, I have a right to state my opinion or method in a polite and respectful manner.
 
bladsmth said:
Guys, you are reading way more into this than there is.
No one is segregating the members, and no one is rating the level of experience and deciding who gets to post where.

The suggestion I favor is to leave Shop Talk exactly as it is. Anyone can post there and anyone can answer. There will be more moderation of sarcastic comments and hopefully more direction from the more experienced makers. Perhaps we can condense the FAQ and Good Info stickies into a "New Members - Read This Before Posting" sticky, along with some other good beginner advice and the good search engine.

There will be a new forum for discussion of more advanced topics and procedures. This should be open to any paying member, just like Around The Grinder is now. Any threads posted in this forum that should be in Shop Talk will be moved.


A lot have suggested some sort of "read first" section, or a similar thing. That is what the Count already does. The problem is the folks here don't leave it at that. After the Count posts his "Standard Reply", there will be 20 other posts of "read the stickies" and such. Some will post unkind comments. Everything past the Count's post is usually unnecessary. I don't favor locking a new persons thread just to keep him and others from posting. Instead, we should all learn to just hit the back button when the question has been addressed. The same goes for people who annoy you with a bad knife or silly post...... Just don't post a reply.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the most equitable solution. :thumbup:
 
I also like the way this is going. I am all for an "advanced topics" forum. Some good feedback and suggestions in this thread. Lets get back on track with a productive exchange of ideas that benefit everyone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top