Newbies Forum - and Poll

Should Shop Talk Have a Change

  • Leave Shop Talk as it is

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Add a Newbies Forum

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Add an Experienced and Learning Makers Forum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
ron_m80 said:
I vote for less regulation. More friending, more subscribing, and more ignore listing.

Why cause the entirety of the forum to change when we are merely mirroring the world around us. Self dicipline is the remidy, not regulation.
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+ 1.....and the ignore list is hurting a lot of people and they don't even know it.
I also would like to point out....when I say professional, I simply mean that a large portion or all of your income is from knife making. I know some "hobby" makers that are better than I will ever be.
 
I'd like an experienced makers sub-forum as long as you leave it open for research/reading to everyone. That would definitely encourage folks to learn how to use the good ole search function :thumbup:
 
I think many would be surprised that the "New maker" posts are not the biggest reason some well known makers no longer post here.
 
Maybe what we should do is start a new forum for Beginners, and leave Shoptalk as it is. Then whenever someone posts a question that's been asked a million times, in Shoptalk, the rest of us can ignore it, and/or the mods can move it to the Beginners forum, which will have all the stickies that are now in Shoptalk. Perhaps combine this with requiring a paid membership to post (not read) in Shoptalk.

I don't know if this is possible, but, if there's a way to fix the software so that new members can't post until they've read all the stickies, that would cut down on some of the repetitive posting.

I agree that if we start a new, exclusive forum for "experienced" makers, it's probably going to be pretty dead. Anyone remember the Metallurgy forum at SFI? :barf:
 
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I have nothing against new makers who *actually* want to learn something. Sadly what I am seeing is a whole lot of people who are coming in with a whole lot of google and "lookie me!" and getting all sorts of indignant when someone who actually has a clue tells them a better way of doing something. A lot of good makers started their exodus when Tai Goo and Bush Monkey decided to start playing troll games, then when those two got banned they started to come back and while they were gone the rules changed, and someone jumped one of the for posting a picture without a paid membership. I have nothing against helping a newb who has a serious question and is willing to pay attention to the answer, I still pop on and answer things for folks when they seem to actually legitimately want help. Yes I can be somewhat of a curmudgeon when someone ignores good advice from competent people, and every once in a while I will tell them straight up to get over their big bad selves and listen to good advice.. When I open a WIP and it is a piece of mild steel turned into a KSO, and the next 10 threads are similar treatments of randomly scrounged scrap, and people who are all registered users with 30 posts are all telling the OP how wonderful they are, and nobody asks where the Emperor's new heat treat is or asking how to make a knife that will actually cut something, it is kinda sad. I miss the days when I would see a WIP and it would be some sort of amazing Bruce Bump cut and shoot, or Nick Wheeler multibar damascus, I would like to see an experienced forum and a riffraff forum, I would still look in the riffraff forum for interesting questions, but might actually have a reason to look at bladeforums more often. Shoptalk used to be a great place with good conversations, now it is kind of boring

-Page
 
I think way too much is being made about newbies and their questions, and there is absolutely nothing to be gained by calling anyone riffraff. I believe in giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, so I readily accept that each and every one of the newbies are sincere, some simply have more talent and common sense than the others, that's all. The reason I voted for an experinced forum is simply because it would be a good way to gain more advanced knowledge. I don't know if it would take off, but I think it's worth a try and I do think it should be limited to paying members.
 
ron_m80 said:
I vote for less regulation. More friending, more subscribing, and more ignore listing.

Why cause the entirety of the forum to change when we are merely mirroring the world around us. Self dicipline is the remidy, not regulation.
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:thumbup::thumbup: ^This^


Unfortunately, the newbs vs olds seems to always be the center of the complaints. The repetitive questions, the raw shanks from scrap metal WIPs, the indignant attitudes. These things seem to be the most common complaints by the more seasoned members and makers, and these things are almost always perpetrated by a newer(and often younger) member/"aspiring"maker. So whether we want this to be and old vs new argument, it seems doomed to be by definition.
 
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I'm pretty new here myself, but these forums seem relatively slow moving as it is. Typically, segregating the user base slows things down even further, and i'm not certain that would work well. A Beginners forum would likely be more helpful than an "exclusive members" club. Simply move any repetitive threads into the newbie area, which hopefully would contain stickies with the answers to those repetitive questions.
 
just a for instance... since most of the older time guys on here already know these things... there was a thread recently about someone working on a knife with very few tools... the response given to him was to try draw filing, and use the search function... i myself don't fully understand the term but i have a pretty good idea what they're referring to when talking about draw filing... so for my own information i tried the search... first just draw filing... i recieved over 1000 results... the first two pages of which mentioned the term, but never explained it... so i tried a better search " how to draw file" still i recieved over 1000 results... so i tried to refine it further... " draw filing techniques" and still i have nearly 400 results... while this is somewhat easier to work with, my point is... the search function isn't much more likely to produce a decent result than just asking the question again... not saying that's the right way... but this is the age in which we live... the information age... a plethora of information right at our fingertips... information neither hard fought for, nor hard earned... many of the builders on this forum have spend countless hours in the library, or at another builders shop learning and gaining experience, and then they get an opportunity to try it for themselves and already have a wealth of information under their belt... many of these new members are accustomed to spending a few hours at a computer and coming away with nearly as much or more information as it took some of the experienced members years to come by... many of whom may have thrown away as many blades as these new builders will ever make... but that's not the point... some just want to come in, get enough information to make a few knives for themselves or close friends, and be done... there's nothing wrong with this... it's a fact of life... there's a whole generation of DIYers... they'll try anything once... but mixed in with some of those people are a few who would like to get into the art, and continue the traditions of some old world makers with new tools... is there any one best way to get into this??? or really a wrong way??? either way the information isn't the valued commodity... it's the experience gained... and an experience guide may be undervalued... but for every ten people guided by this one person if even one understands the value of that guidance and gains that extra bit of experience from going the long way, isn't it worth it??? look at all the great makers that are out there... if very little of their experience gets passed on, then how long before the art completely fades away???
 
I would be interested in seeing what the poll results would be if it was posted in Around The Grinder.
 
Its probably redundant, but its likely worth re-iterating. This forums name is "Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers"

I wonder why people show up and ask questions?
 
I understand the posts of most of you, and agree in part with many.

What I would like is for this thread to stay in the topic of discussing the solutions, not overly arguing the problems.
The thread was a discussion of three options. While others have offered ideas, many are not possible withing the bounds of this forum.
 
Stacy Apelt: Bladesmith and cat herder...

If we were to try one of the proposals such as splitting up the forum and try it out for a while and it didn't work out, could the forums then be re-combined? My thinking is, what we're doing right now isn't working. Perhaps we should try something with the understanding that it is a temporary change to evaluate the effects?
 
roblockwood said:
I'm pretty new here myself, but these forums seem relatively slow moving as it is. Typically, segregating the user base slows things down even further, and i'm not certain that would work well. A Beginners forum would likely be more helpful than an "exclusive members" club. Simply move any repetitive threads into the newbie area, which hopefully would contain stickies with the answers to those repetitive questions.
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I'm new here myself...and a completely new to knife making in general. I try not to post much unless I have a specific question my searches aren't giving me an answer to (or to post a couple knives for critique, which I also really don't like doing because I feel it annoys some of the better makers). I will say I don't understand the thought process of showing one's new work and then being rude about the replies when someone that knows better is giving advice (I hope I've never come off that way).

I go to many other forums unrelated to knives (mostly motorcycles and firearms). As stated above, when you take a forum that is somewhat slow (as shoptalk is compared to other forums I visit) and add subforums to segregate the users a bit, it seems to bring both forums to a halt for some reason.

That being said, the Shoptalk section already has the stickies than any new person could read and go from knowing nothing all the way to making a first knife without ever having to actualy make a single post. A new knifemaker subforum with those stickies may not be too bad, but if no experienced knifemakers go there to help us newbs, then it'll be a forum of the blind leading the blind.

If you make an experienced makers forum that the newbs can't see or read, I fear it would hide a lot of wisdom from us new people. I learn things everytime I come here...even if it is something far beyond my skills.
 
Would it be worthwhile to have a monthly paid subscription, and perhaps mentorship available, for those who are newer to the craft? Perhaps the money could be put towards advertising to bring back the experienced members who've gone elsewhere? Or towards those who mentor?
 
If there is a forum just for newbies, who will visit it? I don't want to learn from/about newbies. I come here to learn from/about the best.
 
BarryHalls said:
If there is a forum just for newbies, who will visit it? I don't want to learn from/about newbies. I come here to learn from/about the best.
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Barry, it depends what you want to learn about. Newbies (or relative newbies) can help you learn about basic techniques just fine, like making a simple 3 piece knife.
Of course if you want to learn about making Damascus or other more advanced techniques then you need advanced makers. That was the point, to stop them from leaving and maybe bring some back so you could learn from them.

And on a side note, when they are motivated and willing to work at it, I love to learn about newbies.
 
Patrice Lemée;11671019 said:
Barry, it depends what you want to learn about. Newbies (or relative newbies) can help you learn about basic techniques just fine, like making a simple 3 piece knife.
Of course if you want to learn about making Damascus or other more advanced techniques then you need advanced makers. That was the point, to stop them from leaving and maybe bring some back so you could learn from them.

And on a side note, when they are motivated and willing to work at it, I love to learn about newbies.
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Very fine points.
 
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