No alternative to parks 50?

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If it comes down to a choice between a cracked blade (or one that's all stressed out and full of micro fractures),... or losing 1-2 points of hardness, which would you chose?
 
syvmn said:
Also, does anyone have a line on where to get either the Parks or the Houghton?
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12345678910 said:
Maxim oil for Parks 50
5 gallon pail
http://www.knifeseek.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54969




Houghton k
for an alternative
http://www.qtstools.com/TechInfo/K.pdf
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Parks #50

If you would have clicked that link & read the first post

Maxim Oil in Fort Worth, TX.

They offer 5 gallons of Parks #50 for 72.50 PLUS sales tax and freight via FedEx.

Maxim Metalworking Lubricants
Maxim Oil & Chemical Co.
Fort Worth, Texas
817 293 4-OIL

Ask for Carla. Credit Cards accepted.


I recently ordered 5 gallons from Maxim Oil myself, and shipping was very fast (ordered Tuesday, received Friday) and the transaction was friendly and smooth.
I believe this is something they stock in an AS NEEDED basis, but I believe they are willing to hold extra on stock if they have less than 55 gallons worth of orders at one time.



Houghton
If you would have clicked that link to the data-sheet, the companies full contact info is on the bottom of the page.
Use the Phone & they can direct you to the nearest distributor.
or
http://www.houghtonintl.com/locations.php?location_id=6
 
daizee said:
I've had repeatable luck with 1095 in 130deg canola, which is inexpensive, reasonably stable, available, low-smoke, high flash-point, and food safe.
-Daizee
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Another nice thing about canola is that the smoke point is an ideal reference for an interrupted quench. I don’t think you can say that about Parks #50.

But, rather than turn this into a debate on canola vs. Parks #50, let’s just say that they are both good alternatives to water,… and each other.
 
Ok...Parks #50 is a QUENCH oil....Canola is a COOKING oil....Where really is the comparison? Parks can repeatedly achieve results in the 67rc range, IF the HT is on. It doesn't matter what you quench into if your HT temp is off.
Parks #50 is the champ in this contest 100 out of 100 times imo.( Within it's intended use, 1095, W1, W2, 1080)
Also note, Parks should be used in the room temp to 98 degree range, above that and the RC starts to drop.
 
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Ive read on another forum that another new quench oil is out that is every bit the equal of parks..Maxim DT-48, in the side by side test results I saw it was equal or a tad better...I also know people who are consistantly getting 66rc on 1/8" 1095 from mcmaster carr quench.
 
OK, let me ask here since this thread is current. What if I want the best results (fullest hardness without blowing it apart) from quenching O1, but might one day want to use the same oil for W2, 1095 etc? Is a fast oil too fast for O1?
 
Kentucky said:
Ive read on another forum that another new quench oil is out that is every bit the equal of parks..Maxim DT-48, in the side by side test results I saw it was equal or a tad better...I also know people who are consistantly getting 66rc on 1/8" 1095 from mcmaster carr quench.
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The only results I have seen from mcmaster carr quench oil in the 66rc range on 1095 was from a double quench. The single quench was not producing full hardness?
 
james terrio said:
OK, let me ask here since this thread is current. What if I want the best results (fullest hardness without blowing it apart) from quenching O1, but might one day want to use the same oil for W2, 1095 etc? Is a fast oil too fast for O1?
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Parks #50 is way too fast for O-1. O-1 has a hardening time of 27 seconds. As i have found out, you can air harden O-1 to an extent9Hard enough to resist filing and cheaper drill bits). Parks AAA is perfect for O-1, but is too slow for shallow hardening steels.
 
I did one blade of 1095 in canola roughly at 120/130f and it had a RC of 61. Sample size of 1 not much to go on , I now have Houghton K and found that is may be too fast if it gets to hot like when doing multiple blades one after the other. I also have no way to measure the forge temp until my package from Auber Instruments finally shows up and should really use a digital meat thermometer or candy thermometer to keep tabs on the quench temps. I also believe my convection oven is off by 50f or so but until I buy / borrow a thermo gun I won't know I guess. Just buy looking at the color of the steel it doesn't look like it should at the tempered heat. I also found out that the pumps with the West System epoxy pump enough for 30 knives in one pump today.
 
Battle Creek Knives said:
count, you blow my mind.. !! where do you come up with this stuff?? do you have everything under the sun bookmarked or what?? super navigator !!! deluxe :)
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Suppliers in Canada are difficult to find.

I've spent hundreds of hours researching many many things.
& I can usually remember enough to hit the right search terms & find links.

I can get Houghton in Canada

K is the Parks 50 equivalent fast oil for W1 & 1095 class
G is the Parks AAA equivalent for slower steels


Although Houghton K is "equivalent" to the Parks 50, anyone who is trying for the Hamon sticks with the Parks 50
because either, it works and they don't want to relearn a different oil, or they are being taught by makers who use Parks 50

Which makes the supply of Parks 50 by Maxim fantastic.

There was a fellow here on BF who was reselling parks oils here, but it was pay upfront & a markup & shipping fees...

The Maxim oil is the best pricing I've seen.
 
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Quench an oil hardened steel blade in the finest quenchant made and quench a blade in canola oil. Forget which balde was quenched in which oil. Use both blades. Bet you can't distinguish which blade was quenched in which oil based solely on real world blade performance.

Moral of the story (according to "Tony" below): Beyond an academic discussion, does it really matter?

zippy1tx.jpg
 
To answer that, Yes. In "Real" metallurgical testing, it DOES matter. Can you wash your face with steel wool? Yes, but there are products made for the job. I believe if you are striving to make the best possible product, you should use the best possible products for the job.
 
These were single quench..One guy on this forum and one on Tracys..I cant personally vouch for it but I know one tester was calibrated for sure...Ive had real good luck from the mcmaster carr quench myself..
klammer said:
The only results I have seen from mcmaster carr quench oil in the 66rc range on 1095 was from a double quench. The single quench was not producing full hardness?
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"Real world" and "Real world metallurgical testing" (whatever that is) are two very different things. "Real world" is when you take a knife to the field, hold the knife in your hand and use it as a tool to make your life easier. To someone who actually uses tools, nothing else matters.

The point is: if the user can't distinguish between the two, does it really matter? It matters to a scientist in a lab. (period)

Mike Davis said:
To answer that, Yes. In "Real" metallurgical testing, it DOES matter. Can you wash your face with steel wool? Yes, but there are products made for the job. I believe if you are striving to make the best possible product, you should use the best possible products for the job.
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BMK said:
"Real world" and "Real world metallurgical testing" (whatever that is) are two very different things. "Real world" is when you take a knife to the field, hold the knife in your hand and use it as a tool to make your life easier. To someone who actually uses tools, nothing else matters.

The point is: if the user can't distinguish between the two, does it really matter? It matters to a scientist in a lab. (period)
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I use a knife everyday, in fact i carry two. The point i am trying to make is if you are out in the field and a blade you are using is quenched in canola or whatever other inexpensive oil, and it bends, or folds an edge because it is not hard enough...is it still a useful tool? I would rather send my stuff out with the best possible heat treat available to avoid any concerns. Will a blade quenched in canola at 57-58rc cut as good as a blade quenched in parks at say 60rc? Yes...for a little while. Why not go the extra distance to insure that you optimize the heat treat for the steel? Let's face it, people use knives for a lot of uses they are not designed for...but a knife is designed for cutting, I say optimize the most useful aspect of a knife...the edge.
 
Mike,

You're painting basically the opposite picture that Tai is painting. A less-than-ideal quench, assuming that canola oil is inherently flawed as a quench medium. It's obvious to me however, that neither mediums are perfect, nor is any one quenchant.

If there was a perfect quench solution, it stands to reason that all other options would have fallen into obscurity. In fact, many of the most renown knife makers have proliferated the advantages of canola, and while it's obviously not ideal for some steels, it is, in my opinion a fallacy to assume that something not designed in a lab might not be ideal for some others. It's also obvious to me that it's reaching something of a dogmatic concern amongst makers.

Different strokes for different folks, different oils for different steels. Various degrees of success. All steels don't perform ideally at top hardness. In-fact, we use the vast majority at sub-maximum hardness, without which the term temper wouldn't likely exist.


I've had great results with Canola oil and certain steels, such that I've never bothered spending the loot on McMaster Fast Quench, or any other slower medium than Parks 50. Do I use Parks 50? Yes, of course, it's ideal for certain steels, although in that regard, everything Tai says regarding cross section geometry and what others mention about multiple quenches still holds true. It's a mistake to assume this stuff is completely binary IMHO. Yes it may be ultimately objective, but it's a very very complex subject.
 
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