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No Knife :-(

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by wdtorque, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. wdtorque


    May 29, 2010
    Paid for a knife, the hunter below, from Ian Hall and haven't received it.

    It's been almost two months, intermittent emails, couple saying he was shipping, but most not answered.
    I've posted on his recent posts, no reply.
    Here is a visitor message he left someone else, a month after I paid for my knife.

    HallHandmade - 07-17-2015 01:29 PM
    View Conversation Report

    Hi, it looks like you might have email disabled, my email is [email protected] if you want to shoot me a message

    Showing Visitor Messages 1 to 1 of 1

    I know Ian has stated he has had/is having medical issues and I don't want to be an @ss, but Geez.
    I've paid for it, why dodge me? Ship it for Heaven's Sake!
    From all accounts he is a stand-up guy, so I'm befuddled here.
    Don't know what the best course of action is.
    Constructive input would be appreciated.
    Accuracy Beats Speed
  2. Tim20637


    Jan 10, 2010
    You may want to open a claim with paypal to get your money returned if he is avoiding you. It usually gets the attention of most people and gets you the knife and or a refund much quicker.
  3. braillediver

    braillediver Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 6, 2007
    His last post on 7\14:

  4. Dragon_Man

    Dragon_Man Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 26, 2003
    Ian posted that the knife was finished. In almost 2 months he could not ship the knife? He accepted payment for it.
  5. wolfmann601

    wolfmann601 Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.

    Mar 12, 2001
    He needs to just send you a full refund for failing to deliver the knife he claimed was completed.

    Anything less is bordering on, well you know............................if you take someone's money, claim that you will deliver and then do nothing, you are a (_____________________) fill in the blank.

    Having medical issues truly suck but you still gotta pay your bills.......
  6. Marko3

    Marko3 Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    Put in a claim .. I feel for the guy knowing full well what a back injury can do to you. But life still goes on and commitment have to be resolved. Best if you just get a refund.
  7. Leftytwogunz


    Apr 30, 2013
    I keep USPS flat rate boxes, packing bubble wrap and tape in the hall closet, as well as fill in the blank shipping labels. You can even print postage
    off at the computer, I believe. If the knife is finished a family member or pal could get it to the post office for him. If he is dodging you go ahead and
    begin the paypal claim before your time runs out on it. He will either have to make it right or refund your money.
    Best of luck.
  8. mrbear


    Sep 17, 2009
    Don't mess around. Paypal refund.

    This seems to be happening quite a bit lately.
  9. jeffsenpai

    jeffsenpai Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 24, 2010
    Shame to see that happen, especially with a great maker like that. Best course is to start that refund process NOW, before its too late.
  10. JR88FAN


    May 5, 2013
    Paypal gives you an incredible 180 days to file for a refund...

    Maybe wait and see if this thread gets you any answers today, and if not, start a claim like everyone else has said.

    There will be no question as to whether or not you will get your money back, as to Mr. Halls situation, I cannot speak to that, as I have no idea how serious it is.

    TOMBSTONE Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 31, 1998
    As long as you file a claim well within the PayPal terms it's up to you how lenient you want to be with the situation. I've been on various forums since the beginning. My observations have been some people are totally truthful with situations, some are half truths, and some people are lying scammers.These issues occur for various reasons from health problems to marital or family problems. This person sounds legitimate but when your selling something that is ready to ship and just get excuses, well it's hard to have trust.
    Most people even with the best intentions cannot dig out of the hole in most of these situations. Once you rob Peter to pay Paul, live on customers payments,deposits etc. it becomes almost impossible to recover in a reasonable amount of time. You get people waiting years to get whats due them and most makers that experience that type of problem just give up fulfilling their obligations. Good Luck with getting your knife.
  12. HallHandmade


    Jun 5, 2012
    Ok. So I'm going to go ahead and leave a reply.

    I would appreciate if everyone didn't just instantly write me off. There is a lot of negativity and horror stories here, and I understand the sentiment.

    Everyone speculating that I won't be able to catch up, that I'm going to rip people off, that Im robbing peter to pay paul, etc., please stop. I will not do anything of the sort and would appreciate if you all stopped trying to make this seem as bad as possible.

    I have substantial savings in place exactly for this type of emergency, and have been able to refund any customer that requests it. The knife is finished and has been since the date of sale.

    The customer was aware there would be a wait for a premium tooled sheath to be completed after the sale. Tooling and stitching is very tough on the upper back and shoulders, and that is where I am injured

    I dropped the ball on communication only because I am overloaded, stressed out, tired, in pain, and generally want to crawl under a rock and die. I am actively shipping orders and will continue doing so until they all are filled and I can leave knifemaking and tend to my health. I plan on returning only if I'm able to give the type of service I built my reputation on.

    I did give poor service, and I apologize. I will contact the customer right now and make an effort to resolve the transaction immediately.

    I stand by my transactions, even if they are severely delayed and I am ill.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  13. HallHandmade


    Jun 5, 2012
    I am in touch with the customer and will resolve the transaction asap.
  14. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker

    Feb 28, 2011
    Good on you, hoping for a speedy recovery and glad you're working to remedy the situation.
  15. Gastonknife

    Gastonknife Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 15, 2008
    Hopefully this will come to a happy ending. Both parties seem to be good folks.
  16. wdtorque


    May 29, 2010
    Ian is in touch, multiple emails.
    We are going to get this worked out
    With no hard feelings it appears.
    Excellent news!

  17. HallHandmade


    Jun 5, 2012
    Asbolutely no hard feelings at all. I deserved a shot across my bow for such poor communication.


    Edit: I wanted to clarify some things "for the record".

    I am aware that many makers have magically become sick or injured right around the time they started having trouble with their business. I am aware that there is no way for an onlooker to tell one way or another what is going on.

    A few years ago I was in a bad car accident and suffered some broken bones and nerve damage. Eventually it became such a problem that I had to leave my career of almost two decades, and a fairly high paying job with amazing benefits.

    While I was trying to figure out what to do with myself now that my life was ruined and everything I ever worked for and the career that I love was torn from my hands, I started playing with knifemaking which eventually developed into a living. Being able to dictate my own hours helped me quite a bit with controlling my health.

    As soon as I decided to go all-in on knifemaking, one of the first things I did was make an "emergency fund" of savings in case my health once again let me down like it did when I had to leave my career.

    Since my accident, it has been normal for me to have a flare up and maybe one or two bad weeks where I will get behind a bit. I would always bounce back though.

    In March I threw my back out moving a toolbox, and never bounced back. I was fooling myself for a while, but finally decided to see a doctor. I got x-rays and it appears there is damage to a disc. I've been losing function in my left hand and the muscles have started to atrophy.

    The grip strength in my right hand is 155lbs. The grip strength in my left is now at 40lbs. I have roughly 1/3 of my normal function in my left arm and hand which is my dominant side.

    On a bad day I will constantly drop things, and shake badly. Doing any type of finish work on a blade, even just putting an edge on a finished knife, is a laughable activity.

    At the very worst, it has gotten so bad that I can't wipe my own butt or tie my own shoes. There have been a few instances when I haven't seen my own bedroom for a week because I didn't feel like I could make it up the stairs. I can't drive in a car because the bumps are excruciatingly painful on a bad day.

    Most of my family besides my parents are out of state. Any friend that was worth associating with is either gone or too busy. My dad has diabetes and almost lost his foot a couple months ago and has been bedridden, and so my parents are mostly stuck at home. My fiance works 12hr night shifts and commutes, and is the sole breadwinner. She has been picking up extra shifts to make up for me, and so is not available either.

    Can I find someone to help out when things get bad? Yes, sometimes. But most of the time I'm all on my own for better or worse.

    The demand for my work is at least 10X my output, with emails to match. I get a dozen emails on a slow day, and anywhere from 30-50 if I've posted recently. I had about 2 years of orders on the books until I announced I was permanently discontinuing taking orders due to my health. Nearly every knife I post sells within minutes.

    When I am operating at 100%, I can BARELY handle the communication volume and interest in my work. It doesn't take much more than a case of the sniffles to get hopelessly behind on email.

    Since my health took a turn for the worse, I have started to make an effort to basically rebuild my business anew and focus more tightly in a specific area. All I can say at this point is thay I'm hopeful it will be a success.

    Things are still up in the air right now, but I do hope I can make it through this trial and continue as a knifemaker.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015

    TOMBSTONE Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 31, 1998
    Didn't mean to imply to write you off, though we could fill a book with these same stories over the years. Truly hope it's not the same path for you.
    Nothing about a sheath wait was ever mentioned in his original post just that he paid and you said a couple of times you were shipping and didn't. I have ruptured discs myself and know about not being able to wipe my butt, enough pain to put an elephant on the ground. Hope you feel better and all works out for both of you.
  19. HallHandmade


    Jun 5, 2012
    I completely understand, I've read many of those stories myself, and thought, "that could be me".

    Once I became a full time maker, I was surprised to find many of my colleagues had similar stories to mine, forced to leave career due to health problems or accident, became a knifemaker because it was the only thing they could find that put their learned skills to use doing something they enjoy.

    I can name probably a half dozen notable makers right off the top of my head that had to leave their careers due to some kind of spinal trouble or similar.

    I always joke with other disabled or semi-disabled makers that knifemaking is the career version of "The Isle of misfit toys."

    Surprisingly, I even know a few makers that came from my specific career field, Aerospace R&D/Test. I even know a maker that has the same exact burst disc and same symptoms of atrophy and lost feeling in his left arm/hand.

    I had mentioned my savings above, that was done in an effort to try and give me a safety net, so that in the case my health did take a turn for the worse, I would have the financial stability to weather the storm.

    I can say this: If I had not anticipated the possibility of this situation and taken steps to protect my business financially, I almost certainly would have ended up becoming one of "those stories".

    As far as the sheath thing, I didn't want to be seen as trying to lay blame on the OP, nor did I feel it was left out maliciously, so I didn't make a big deal of it other than making sure it was mentioned for proper context.
  20. JR88FAN


    May 5, 2013
    I wish you nothing but the best sir.

    While I realize that your injuries are not something that you can ever fully recover from, I hope that you can get back to the point where you can continue to make knives.

    We need to all maybe take a few steps in your shoes and try to understand that in a situation like yours, tying up the lose ends when you are forced to stop work is not an easy or quick thing.
    It takes a while to realize you have to stop, and in that time, while your mind is saying you can get through it, your body is doing otherwise.

    It's a difficult thing, and I am certain that you have tried your best to make everyone happy, only to realize that it's impossible in your current condition and that you need a break.

    Thank you for taking the time to clear this up, and again, I wish you the best.

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