no m390 steel models ?

Folding said:
This is certainly a part of it. Using "pretty good" steels for mainstream models.

But what harm would it do to make several blades in better than average steels?
Extending your cars analogy, Toyota has Lexus. Honda has Acura.
Is Spyderco religiously positioning itself as purely an average consumer brand?
Certainly not. They have great named designs.

I see only two sensible explanations. Either "super" steels like S90V, S110V and P204 are
only marginally better than VG-10, or they cause excessive wear and tear to their equipment.
Click to expand...

I can fairly speculate, Spyderco's first priority in making ANY knives is to the average one knife consumer/user, not the collector. There are some here who want every Spyderco in every steel and every handle material and mechanics possible, all the time. Spyderco cannot, and should not...from a business perspective, cater to these demands. It would be business suicide.

The answer to the question was in the fourth post. Look at the numbers of different steels and compare to the number of models and you can see that some steel choices had to be minimized. M390 was perhaps that minimization for this year.

On another note: Me not being a metallurgist, I really can't tell the difference in cutting performance by steel type. I judge cutting performance based on the edge on the blade. Therefore, S30V cuts exactly the same as V-10.
 
SpeedHoles said:
^ Haha

Well before things get out of hand, it does seem like your first question was already answered in the second post...

But, what models would you like to see more cts-204p in?
Because I could agree in wanting to see it more. I did after all purchase a BBS Domino for some. You could pick up a Southard as well.
Unfortunately for me I personally cannot afford a PM2 with it though.
Click to expand...

:) I hope all stays in control.

I would love a Techno in some more corrosion resistant-but hard-steel.
 
Folding said:
This is certainly a part of it. Using "pretty good" steels for mainstream models.

But what harm would it do to make several blades in better than average steels?
Extending your cars analogy, Toyota has Lexus. Honda has Acura.
Is Spyderco religiously positioning itself as purely an average consumer brand?
Certainly not. They have great named designs.

I see only two sensible explanations. Either "super" steels like S90V, S110V and P204 are
only marginally better than VG-10, or they cause excessive wear and tear to their equipment.
Click to expand...


Any high wear resistance steel is going to cause excessive wear and tear on equipment, that's just the nature of the beast. There's also the fact that many people don't need or even want that kind of steel in their knives. For those of us that do, Spyderco offers production models in S110V, S90V, ZDP-189, 10V, 204P and CPM-M4. Throw in the sprint runs and you get too many others to list. I'm unaware of any production company that offers anywhere near as many high end steels.
 
I assumed it might just have had a lot to do with how poorly M390 did in the NASA ISO testing (?)

I noticed no more models were introduced after the ISO results came out. :confused:
 
David From NC said:
I assumed it might just have had a lot to do with how poorly M390 did in the NASA ISO testing (?)

I noticed no more models were introduced after the ISO results came out. :confused:
Click to expand...

Intriguing! I am unaware of this - could you give a link or a short comment please?
 
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M390 and S110V and other "Super steels" would add cost to models over the price of S30V and VG-10, and could very well lead to reduced sales of such models...and they may not be able to acquire sufficient quantities of such "Super steels" to fullfill production demands. Either way I'm sure they have their reasons for doing what they do. That, and S30V was called a "Super steel" when it was first introduced and is still an awesome knife steel, as is VG-10. Calling them bad is like calling a Z06 Corvette a slow car because it's slower than a Bugatti Veyron, despite the fact that it easily outperforms the majority of more common cars on the road.
 
3rdGenRigger said:
M390 and S110V and other "Super steels" would add cost to models over the price of S30V and VG-10, and could very well lead to reduced sales of such models...and they may not be able to acquire sufficient quantities of such "Super steels" to fullfill production demands. Either way I'm sure they have their reasons for doing what they do. That, and S30V was called a "Super steel" when it was first introduced and is still an awesome knife steel, as is VG-10. Calling them bad is like calling a Z06 Corvette a slow car because it's slower than a Bugatti Veyron, despite the fact that it easily outperforms the majority of more common cars on the road.
Click to expand...

Great analogy here!
 
So many car analogies here now, lol... same thing now going on in a thread about s110v on the Spyderco forum!

I think it would be more along the lines of wanting VW to put their W16 turbo out of the Bugatti into a Porche.... just to keep it all one manufacturer. Or the LS7 into a Camaro... oh wait, they already did and it's badass!
 
The top of the line Corvette and Camaro are both limited production and demand a premium. Just like Spyderco sprints.

I think most people assume that Spyderco is a huge corporation. They're a comparitively small company that, even with recent Golden expansions still see the demand for most US produced knives far exceeding the supply.

How long are the wait times for the Para 2 at distributors?

Worse yet, the Yojimbo 2.

Most dealers get a few a month and they are gone in minutes. Add in extra tooling time for a premium steel and these great models would become unicorns. Not unlike ZT's super steel knives. I for one, like being able to own a knife rather than chase one for ages and sell a kidney to buy. Besides, S30V has never left me feeling "under knifed".

Just my .02
 
Still intrigued by "poorly M390 did in the NASA ISO".

Does anyone have a clue what happened and what was the test?
 
I was just kidding about the ISO tests.

Sorry to everyone who Googled "NASA ISO tests" (and NASA "Steel tests", NASA M390", "ISO steel tests". et al.)

My sense of humor has gotten me fired from jobs before. :(
 
David From NC said:
I was just kidding about the ISO tests.

Sorry to everyone who Googled "NASA ISO tests" (and NASA "Steel tests", NASA M390", "ISO steel tests". et al.)

My sense of humor has gotten me fired from jobs before. :(
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:)

That was a hard one, given that NASA actually does run a whole bunch of stainless steels through their tests.
 
LOL, I damn near went to google over that statement, however, I balked at the idea after realizing that if Spyderco aint using it, why bother with the "why." I think Spyderco's actions have such merit that sometimes their decisions do not really need to be questioned or researched. It comes down to trust, I suppose. I trust my Spyderco. Damn the steel!:D
 
Sorry guys.

I NEVER do that and have never done that but the devil on the one shoulder was louder than the angel on the other that time. :o

I'm ashamed to say that I had a laughing fit after I posted it at the thought of everybody (doing JUST WHAT I'D DO) Google'ing every possible variation of "M390", "ISO", "NASA Steel Tests", "ISO Testing" and so forth. My wife (on the other sofa) even looked up from her school work and asked "What the heck are you laughing at???"

Sorry...I promise not to do that ever again. :thumbup:
 
David From NC said:
Sorry guys.

I NEVER do that and have never done that but the devil on the one shoulder was louder than the angel on the other that time. :o

I'm ashamed to say that I had a laughing fit after I posted it at the thought of everybody (doing JUST WHAT I'D DO) Google'ing every possible variation of "M390", "ISO", "NASA Steel Tests", "ISO Testing" and so forth. My wife (on the other sofa) even looked up from her school work and asked "What the heck are you laughing at???"

Sorry...I promise not to do that ever again. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


Why don't I believe you? :D

Actually, that was, an awesome trick. ;)
 
To sum the discussion up, nobody actually knows why M390 has not become a mainstream steel.

Too bad: nothing wrong with having H1-like corrosion resistance+S30V-like hardness in one blade.
 
My most carried, and probably all time favorite folder is a 204p Para 2. That said, I think many people would probably prefer their Para 2 at a lower price point with a steel that is not quite as high performance, but still excellent.
 
Folding said:
To sum the discussion up, nobody actually knows why M390 has not become a mainstream steel.

Too bad: nothing wrong with having H1-like corrosion resistance+S30V-like hardness in one blade.
Click to expand...

There have been several answers. M390 is less corrosion resistant than H1...as is almost, if not every other knife steel I've used or heard of. Supply restrictions of M390 vs. S30V or VG-10. Cost of M390 stock vs. S30V or VG-10. Time spend grinding (And therefore more cost) M390 vs. S30V or VG-10. And I'm sure the differences in the heat treating are also a factor.

In short...not everyone (Or at least not the vast majority of consumers which are not aficionados as dedicated and part of the online forums) would be willing to add "X" dollars to the cost of a knife in already good steel, and supply quantity also contributes to such. Not everyone can afford to daily drive a Bentley. Some can, and some do, but how many Bentleys do you see on the road? And do you think that everyone on Earth would benefit from a Bentley as a daily driver? I wouldn't make it up my driveway a good part of the year in such, nor would it haul garbage to the dump, or haul my quad, and as a result my "Simple, low cost, cheap-steel-esque" pickup truck is a better option most of the time. Even if I could drive my '64 Impala convertible as often...it wouldn't be the better choice most times, though like a knife in great steel it has its moments and is to be cherished. My dad's Corvette would drive circles around my truck, and yet it is far less practical and I wouldn't use it on a daily basis over my truck as a result, especially given cost associated if it takes a door ding in a parking lot or a deer runs out of a ditch into the side of it.
 
There have been several answers.

I.
M390 is less corrosion resistant than H1...
-Maybe. But in my own tests with salt water, H1 developed stain spots similar to M390
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1261716-Picturs-of-my-steels-rusting-test-H1-m390-ZDP-189-N690Co-CTS-XHP
M390 is rather impressive in that test.
Unlike ZDP-189 and XHP, which Spyderco markets as stainless.

II.
Supply restrictions of M390 vs. S30V or VG-10.
-This is just a steel. There is no fundamental limitations with any of its components.
If there is demand, the manufacturer would certainly find a way to supply the due quantities.

III.
Cost of M390 stock vs. S30V or VG-10.
-The costs of these steels are tens of $ per pound, in the ball park of $40/pound reading
knife makers posts. Steel price is not a big factor in Spyderco knife price.

IV.
Time spend grinding (And therefore more cost) M390 vs. S30V or VG-10.
-That was my own suggestion, and it is pure fantasy. Grinding may cost just $0.2 more, I don't know.

V.
And I'm sure the differences in the heat treating are also a factor.
-Maybe, but I guess if a company is in a knife business, HT should be the last reason to worry?
Unless there is a real, unusual issue with HT and M390 steel. If so, here could be the answer!
 
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