Non-receipt claim filed with Paypal 1hr after payment was sent...

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CookieRawwr said:
Well I've only had one bad transaction in my time buying and selling on these forums. The issue was similar. A guy sent money through paypal then immediately filed a non receipt claim for the knife. I was hesitant to ship , but I felt obligated to try and make it right, so I shipped the knife. Well anyways lost the knife and the payment, he said he never received the knife even though the tracking said it was delivered. I'm not naming names because I'm over it and consider it a lesson learned. The guy was a non member who responded to the email address I posted. Just want to say that for the majority, everyone that I've bought or sold or traded with was courteous and respectful in our dealings.
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This is exactly why I NEVER post my email address in a thread... you never know who will respond.
 
Timeline of events, for clarity, and a new aspect that is bugging me...

I post thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1356863-1311-Still-available

At 5:51pm, he posts that my PM box is full

At 5:58pm, I post that I just noticed and that it is no longer full

At 6:00pm, he sends me an email through BF saying he will take it but can't pay 'til morning. I reply stating that it wont ship until Saturday if that is the case. I also state in that email that "I will mark it as SPF".

At 6:08pm, I reply to my thread that it is SPF to hhmoore. This is standard practice for me on the Busse sale forum as sometimes you get multiple people saying "I'll take it" in the thread and/or via PM. This gives full transparency to everyone as to who was the first to say they'd take the knife.

At 6:14pm, he replies that payment is sent, and I receive payment. I respond to his email asking that he confirm his shipping address (just incase the paypal address is wrong, something I always check). I never receive a response to this email.

At 6:19pm, he sends me a PM via BF asking me to remove his username from my SPF post. Note that all of our communication during this transaction was done via email, and he had an email from me 5 minutes prior asking for address confirmation that he did not respond to. Had this communication been via email I would have seen it right away because my phone would have notified me while I was eating, I wasn't watching for PMs to come in as this was the only transaction I was conducting.

At 6:40pm, he sends me another PM saying he doesn't know why I chose not to remove his name but that it was a deal breaker, and that he wanted a refund. Had this request been sent via email, I would have been annoyed but would have issued him a refund.

At 6:46pm, I receive an email from Paypal regarding the non-receipt claim he filed. In the notes of the filing he said he was cancelling his transaction and that he doesn't want me to ship the item.

I email him back asking why I just got that claim, because at this point I still hadn't been back to BF to check PMs. He responds at 3am that it was the only way to request a refund via Paypal.

hhmoore, since you are now reading this thread... why did you decide to stop using email for communication and PM me on bladeforums instead? And why did you not ask me VIA EMAIL to issue you a refund before filing a false non-receipt claim with paypal... or at least give me more than five minutes to see your PM asking for a refund before you filed it? And why is your username being in the thread an issue for you?

Now your money is floating in limbo with paypal while they look at the dispute, and I am saddled with a BS claim on my paypal account.
 
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knifehunt said:
This is exactly why I NEVER post my email address in a thread... you never know who will respond.
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That is easily taken care of, you simply ask for them to provide their BFC profile name. I have found that 99% of the time if the member is one worth dealing with they will include their profile name in the email. Yet another good way to weed out folks who you may not want to deal with. If they can't handle basic communication, like "who they are", what else are they going to screw up?
 
I don't know the value of the knife you sold .. But maybe he was planning. Resale and didn't want anyone to know how much he paid .. Just a thought
 
there has to be more going on that the op isn't or hasn't been made aware of, if not than...wow...
 
craytab said:
That is easily taken care of, you simply ask for them to provide their BFC profile name. I have found that 99% of the time if the member is one worth dealing with they will include their profile name in the email. Yet another good way to weed out folks who you may not want to deal with. If they can't handle basic communication, like "who they are", what else are they going to screw up?
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Good idea.....
 
I have been up for nearly 30 hrs at this point, so I am not going to take the time to read this entire thread. Doing so would not significantly change what I am going to say; but it would delay my response (and likely reduce my ability to make it without rambling). My plan is simply to make my statement - I have no expectation of my response satisfying the masses. In all likelihood, I will (after sleeping) read through the entire thread…I may, or may not, respond further after doing so.

Let me start by saying, yes, I chose to retract my purchase due to the seller posting/leaving my name in the sale thread. However, I did send him a message first, requesting that he remove it. I realize that most of you will not understand that, because posting “I’ll take it” to claim an item is common practice on this site. I’m not going to waste words trying to explain my rationale – let it suffice to say that I do not purchase items here by claiming them publicly; and, accordingly, I do not want my name posted as the purchaser. I have, occasionally, been refused an item because I was unwilling to make an I’ll take it post to “document” the purchase.

Back to issue: Upon seeing that the seller posted my name in the ad, I immediately sent him a message asking that he remove it. I went back to the ad, and noted that there were 4 members viewing it – the seller was not one of them. (That fact has bearing.) I was away from the computer for approximately 10 minutes…when I returned, I checked first for a response to my message, then went back to the ad. The seller was now listed as viewing the ad – my thought at that moment was that he was going to remove my username. After refreshing the page a few times to check, I continued getting ready to leave. When I checked back, the seller was no longer viewing the thread – I don’t recall if he was shown as online. I sent him another PM stating that I didn’t know why he chose not to remove my name, but that it was a deal breaker for me. At that time, I asked for a refund. Under more ideal circumstances, we would have exchanged PMs on the matter, and things would have ended there. Unfortunately, time was not on our side – I was going to be away from home for 14 hrs (possibly more), I couldn’t count on having an opportunity to even come online in that time, and I wanted to make sure there was no doubt about the transaction being cancelled. With those things in mind, I went to PayPal.

I was reasonably certain that there was no Cancel Purchase button; but I wanted to see if there was an acceptable option for notifying the seller. There was not. That’s right – I recognize that filing a claim was a poor option; but it was really the only “official” option available, so I used it. The message I sent with the claim suggested no wrongdoing on the part of the seller – it was “As per my message on BF, I am cancelling the purchase. Do not ship the item. Please refund my payment.” I fully expected hard feelings from the seller on the matter because I took that step…it was unfortunate; but I was willing to accept them.
Seeing the number of posts that have already been made, and having viewed enough of these threads, I’m sure that many have already made negative comments about me. Along with that likely comes the vows to put me on ignore or not deal with me. I won’t say that I don’t care about such things; but, we all make our decisions on who to deal with based on whatever information we have, and the real world impact is rather small. I’m thick skinned enough not to suffer much distress over the sting of such comments. There are more things I’m inclined to say; but I don’t know that there is much reason to continue. I’m tired, and I have already gone on (and deleted) a few tangents. I realize that this post won't make cancelling in that manner "right" in anybody's eyes; but, again, I'm not trying to justify it.

In case anybody suggests (or has suggested) that it was a matter of buyer remorse - that is not the case. I had already paid for the knife, and I didn't change my mind about wanting it. I fully admit that I did not wait an "acceptable" amount of time to assess the seller's response. In fact, if I was reading this situation, I would be critical of the timeline.

To the people that contacted me to make me aware of this thread – thank you - I wish I could have responded earlier.
 
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Just a simple question when a person here on blade forums behaves like this or rips a person off isn't there a way to make it so they loose their exchange privileges for awhile again just asking?
 
hhmoore said:
I have been up for nearly 30 hrs at this point, so I am not going to take the time to read this entire thread. Doing so would not significantly change what I am going to say; but it would delay my response (and likely reduce my ability to make it without rambling). My plan is simply to make my statement - I have no expectation of my response satisfying the masses. In all likelihood, I will (after sleeping) read through the entire thread…I may, or may not, respond further after doing so.

Let me start by saying, yes, I chose to retract my purchase due to the seller posting/leaving my name in the sale thread. However, I did send him a message first, requesting that he remove it. I realize that most of you will not understand that, because posting “I’ll take it” to claim an item is common practice on this site. I’m not going to waste words trying to explain my rationale – let it suffice to say that I do not purchase items here by claiming them publicly; and, accordingly, I do not want my name posted as the purchaser. I have, occasionally, been refused an item because I was unwilling to make an I’ll take it post to “document” the purchase.

Back to issue: Upon seeing that the seller posted my name in the ad, I immediately sent him a message asking that he remove it. I went back to the ad, and noted that there were 4 members viewing it – the seller was not one of them. (That fact has bearing.) I was away from the computer for approximately 10 minutes…when I returned, I checked first for a response to my message, then went back to the ad. The seller was now listed as viewing the ad – my thought at that moment was that he was going to remove my username. After refreshing the page a few times to check, I continued getting ready to leave. When I checked back, the seller was no longer viewing the thread – I don’t recall if he was shown as online. I sent him another PM stating that I didn’t know why he chose not to remove my name, but that it was a deal breaker for me. At that time, I asked for a refund. Under more ideal circumstances, we would have exchanged PMs on the matter, and things would have ended there. Unfortunately, time was not on our side – I was going to be away from home for 14 hrs (possibly more), I couldn’t count on having an opportunity to even come online in that time, and I wanted to make sure there was no doubt about the transaction being cancelled. With those things in mind, I went to PayPal.

I was reasonably certain that there was no Cancel Purchase button; but I wanted to see if there was an acceptable option for notifying the seller. There was not. That’s right – I recognize that filing a claim was a poor option; but it was really the only “official” option available, so I used it. The message I sent with the claim suggested no wrongdoing on the part of the seller – it was “As per my message on BF, I am cancelling the purchase. Do not ship the item. Please refund my payment.” I fully expected hard feelings from the seller on the matter because I took that step…it was unfortunate; but I was willing to accept them.
Seeing the number of posts that have already been made, and having viewed enough of these threads, I’m sure that many have already made negative comments about me. Along with that likely comes the vows to put me on ignore or not deal with me. I won’t say that I don’t care about such things; but, we all make our decisions on who to deal with based on whatever information we have, and the real world impact is rather small. I’m thick skinned enough not to suffer much distress over the sting of such comments. There are more things I’m inclined to say; but I don’t know that there is much reason to continue. I’m tired, and I have already gone on (and deleted) a few tangents. I realize that this post won't make cancelling in that manner "right" in anybody's eyes; but, again, I'm not trying to justify it.

In case anybody suggests (or has suggested) that it was a matter of buyer remorse - that is not the case. I had already paid for the knife, and I didn't change my mind about wanting it. I fully admit that I did not wait an "acceptable" amount of time to assess the seller's response. In fact, if I was reading this situation, I would be critical of the timeline.

To the people that contacted me to make me aware of this thread – thank you - I wish I could have responded earlier.
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Well, I'll have to admit that was a very childish way to act. If you did not want your name in the sales thread, you should have never responded in it. So, why did you respond in the thread instead of just sending a PM? If you respond in a sales thread, then the item is marked sold, we can all pretty much figure out who bought it. This make absolutely no sense at all.

EDIT: I see that you tried to PM the seller, but his inbox was full. You could have just sent an email then. You could have simply requested a refund instead of pulling a sneaky move like you did.
 
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hhmoore said:
I was reasonably certain that there was no Cancel Purchase button; but I wanted to see if there was an acceptable option for notifying the seller. There was not. That’s right – I recognize that filing a claim was a poor option; but it was really the only “official” option available, so I used it. The message I sent with the claim suggested no wrongdoing on the part of the seller – it was “As per my message on BF, I am cancelling the purchase. Do not ship the item. Please refund my payment.” I fully expected hard feelings from the seller on the matter because I took that step…it was unfortunate; but I was willing to accept them.
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Your childlike insistence that your name not be mentioned (and your insistence that people never, ever post "I'll take it" in your own sales threads) is one thing, but your reaction (filing a non-receipt claim with PayPal, which is probably fraudulent) is beyond the pale. If it were up to me you'd be banned, but the second best option is for as many people as possible to see this thread so that they never do business with you in the future.
 
I cant explain why the site would show I was viewing the thread... But why would you not reply to my email when I asked for you to confirm shipping info and say "hey, can you remove my username?"

I responded to all of your emails within minutes, and all of our communication took place in email. If you needed to get a reaponse from me quickly that was obviously the way to do so.
 
I've got to say this is one of the more odd cases I've seen especially given hhmoore's excellent reputation including the perfect transaction I had with him. Two thoughts...the glaring harm here is paypals perception of the OP. Without further investigation, paypal will just see that he has a non-receipt claim against him. This is a real thing, not just hurt feelings here on BFC. It could impact how cases are handled by paypal in the future. hhmoore realizes this yet he still did it. The stand up thing to do would have been to wait and handle it with proper communication. Again, hhmore realizes this but yet the damage is done.

Hhmoore's rep will take a hit for this. Will people want to deal with him in the future? Will they want to risk their reputation with paypal because of his odd policies? I don't know. Hhmoore, if you are going to have such an odd policy it would be best to explain that you don't want your name mentioned in the add before you send payment. Again it looks like poor communication caused a big problem even though most would say there was no problem. As far as I am concerned and how I see the rules, the seller has the right to run his sale the way he or she sees fit. Hhmoore in fact went back on his word without good reason as it relates to the rules here and with poor communication.

Only good thing here is that Hhmoore has stood up and explained his position and realized what he did wrong to a certain extent. That counts for something I guess.
 
So two years of experience here, over 2,000 posts and you thought your actions were acceptable. You refuse to give a reason other than you didn't want our name in the thread. Honest people don't do crap like that.
 
gonebad395 said:
Just a simple question when a person here on blade forums behaves like this or rips a person off isn't there a way to make it so they loose their exchange privileges for awhile again just asking?
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I don't know about the behind the scenes actual forum functions but the mods have put big banners on peoples avatar under their name saying not to deal with this person and to read the current thread on them in the GB&U. I'd like to see more of that!
 
craytab said:
I've got to say this is one of the more odd cases I've seen especially given hhmoore's excellent reputation including the perfect transaction I had with him. Two thoughts...the glaring harm here is paypals perception of the OP. Without further investigation, paypal will just see that he has a non-receipt claim against him. This is a real thing, not just hurt feelings here on BFC. It could impact how cases are handled by paypal in the future. hhmoore realizes this yet he still did it. The stand up thing to do would have been to wait and handle it with proper communication. Again, hhmore realizes this but yet the damage is done.

..
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And this is the only reason I made this thread. Otherwise I would have just been annoyed and moved on. Now there is documented history on my Paypal of someone disputing a purchase under the guise of not receiving what they paid for.

There is a good reason why Paypal doesnt have any other way to request a refund; they aren't in the business of granted refunds based on purchasers changing their minds. They expect us to communicate and handle it ourselves, which I would have if given the opportunity.
 
I would contact Paypal and provide a link to this thread so they do not put a strike against you, as it would not be fair to have for them to add this transaction to your profile.

I know that Paypal used to put a hold on your funds until the buyer received the item. Not sure if this is something that may happen due to this transaction, but I would find out. I'mnot sure if that was just an Ebay thing or not.
 
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