Non-Tactical Looking Knife?

Thanks, ND. I kinda prefer the name "ladybug" for the courtroom laugh factor. Pink is probably better than purple, but they're close.

I don't know of an instance where clipped carry was considered concealed, but I haven't done a search of cases. My understanding though, is if the machine or a cop really wants to go after you, they can put a bs charge on you, and the charge is on your record, even if it gets dropped.

My general understanding for the average citizen though is if it's clipped and the clip is visible on your pocket, the police consider that acceptable, that it's not concealed.

The next question is, if they try to frame you, how successfully can you sue them and get any arrest expunged? I would think it would be doable, but who knows for sure. There is a federal monitor over the city, however, b/c everyone knows what a scumbag the mayor, his friends and family are.

I'm putting in a call to a lawyer friend of mine who works for the state for further advice on this very issue of concealment, expungement, etc.

This whole issue also shows the need for knife makers and retailers to stop using that effin' word "tactical" b/c it really screws up those of us who would like to buy a nice looking pocketknife but don't want to put ourselves at risk b/c of the purposelly vague intent laws. Spyderco has it right, lone wolf does not. But then again, anyone cowboy enough to call their company "lone wolf" and select a paramilitary looking logo, already was telling you he was a ninja to some degree.



NDJeep said:
I mentioned the Pink Chive on the first page...

Swift death in a pretty package. Exactly what you need.:rolleyes::D

Hey, you mentioned a few times you are concerned about a low-in-pocket clipped carry because of "concealment concern".

Have you an example or do you know of an instance where a clipped knife was considered concealed?

I'm wondering because autos are legal in ND with open carry. And I have't been able to get a clear answer if clipped pocket carry is considered concealed or open.(the clip CAN be seen but not the knife) It probably varies from state to state and officer to officer.
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You aren't going to get into a knife fight in chicago. You probably aren't going to go knife on knife in chicago. You're either going to be facing a gun or you are going to get ambushed like the mugging victims in Lincoln Park recently.

You're not going to be slashing away like west side story. You're going to either be cutting your way out of a clinch, cutting your way from beneath someone who is straddling you and pounding away, or any other more realistic scenarios than knife on knife or a knife duel.

I live in Chicago and have carried quite a few knives. If you are discrete and stay out of bad neighborhoods you won't be hassled by CPD. They have much better things to do than stop and frisk non-gang members.

That said, I stay away from assisted openers. I would stay away from anything with a blade over 3 inches. Get something easily accessed and easily opened under pressure. This means handling the knife. What works for Michael Janich or Southnarc or Mercop may not work for you. Accessability, deployment and ease of carry are going to trump most other criteria except maybe price.

Go up to bass pro shops in Gurnee or gander mountain down in Joliet and handle a few knives. They are a little over priced (most near MSRP) and may not have the most popular brands but you may be surprised.

Pete
 
Thanks for your comments, Pete. Nice reviews on your link, too. I don't know half of what you do about knives.

Unfortunately, my job takes me to bad neighborhoods or isolated areas on a regular basis. Areas with gang wars, armed robbery, etc. However, I look like a cop and the scumbags generally stay away. Cops don't bother me and are generally friendly. I have friends that are cops.

I'm not worried about the cops, I'm more worried about crooked politicians that send crooked cops to mess with me or enforcers for crooked contractors. More I'm not going to say.

I just spoke to my lawyer friend who works for the state, and he said that bs charges are beatable and once you beat the bs charge over the clip/exposed issue, the arrest is expunged from your record.

So, it's knife shopping I go.

I will probably get a 3.5" blade with a more rough duty folder with a wood handle. Sorry Pete, I just like something a bit beefier and longer.

Thanks again for the advice.




Pete1977 said:
You aren't going to get into a knife fight in chicago. You probably aren't going to go knife on knife in chicago. You're either going to be facing a gun or you are going to get ambushed like the mugging victims in Lincoln Park recently.

You're not going to be slashing away like west side story. You're going to either be cutting your way out of a clinch, cutting your way from beneath someone who is straddling you and pounding away, or any other more realistic scenarios than knife on knife or a knife duel.
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njr said:
Thanks for your comments, Pete. Nice reviews on your link, too. I don't know half of what you do about knives.

Unfortunately, my job takes me to bad neighborhoods or isolated areas on a regular basis. Areas with gang wars, armed robbery, etc. However, I look like a cop and the scumbags generally stay away. Cops don't bother me and are generally friendly. I have friends that are cops.

I'm not worried about the cops, I'm more worried about crooked politicians that send crooked cops to mess with me or enforcers for crooked contractors. More I'm not going to say.

I just spoke to my lawyer friend who works for the state, and he said that bs charges are beatable and once you beat the bs charge over the clip/exposed issue, the arrest is expunged from your record.

So, it's knife shopping I go.

I will probably get a 3.5" blade with a more rough duty folder with a wood handle. Sorry Pete, I just like something a bit beefier and longer.

Thanks again for the advice.
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No problem and no need to apologise. you know what you are looking for more than anyone else. I do stand by my suggestion to find somewhere that sells knives so you can handle a few before you buy. I have noticed, especially with thumb stud and thumb disk opening knives, that the placement of the stud or disk makes a huge difference and with knives using these methods the placement on the blade varies. With the hole it is no huge deal.

And finally, I know you are dead set against tactical folding knives for the reasons you have stated, i.e. perception, but keep in mind that police officers see plenty of these knives in the hands of law abiding citizens, as they are the majority of folding knives available on the market today and if you do not have a criminal record you should not have any problems.

Pete
 
njr said:
Thanks for your comments, Pete. Nice reviews on your link, too. I don't know half of what you do about knives.

Unfortunately, my job takes me to bad neighborhoods or isolated areas on a regular basis. Areas with gang wars, armed robbery, etc. However, I look like a cop and the scumbags generally stay away. Cops don't bother me and are generally friendly. I have friends that are cops.

I'm not worried about the cops, I'm more worried about crooked politicians that send crooked cops to mess with me or enforcers for crooked contractors. More I'm not going to say.

I just spoke to my lawyer friend who works for the state, and he said that bs charges are beatable and once you beat the bs charge over the clip/exposed issue, the arrest is expunged from your record.

So, it's knife shopping I go.

I will probably get a 3.5" blade with a more rough duty folder with a wood handle. Sorry Pete, I just like something a bit beefier and longer.

Thanks again for the advice.
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Pete1977 said:
You aren't going to get into a knife fight in chicago. You probably aren't going to go knife on knife in chicago. You're either going to be facing a gun or you are going to get ambushed like the mugging victims in Lincoln Park recently.

You're not going to be slashing away like west side story. You're going to either be cutting your way out of a clinch, cutting your way from beneath someone who is straddling you and pounding away, or any other more realistic scenarios than knife on knife or a knife duel.
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What you need is a Concealed weapons permit and a gun or 2 and maybe a knife. Maybe a Shotgun in the truck too.
 
Ankerson said:
What you need is a Concealed weapons permit and a gun or 2 and maybe a knife. Maybe a Shotgun in the truck too.
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A. it is illegal to posess a handgun within the city limits of chicago and

B. he asked people to recommend a knife not a gun.

and before someone makes the wise ass remark "move somewhere else" or "get a different job" it is not always possible.
 
Pete1977 said:
A. it is illegal to posess a handgun within the city limits of chicago and

B. he asked people to recommend a knife not a gun.

and before someone makes the wise ass remark "move somewhere else" or "get a different job" it is not always possible.
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I know I already recommended a few knives, but after reading the real problem I thought a gun might be better. :D
 
NJR, did you check out the olive wooden handle version of the FKMD Gunhammer which I linked a while ago? I seems right up your alley.

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You can have wood, micarta or other scales made up for you I am sure, so choose up your knife and get some scales cut for it. I saw a ZT 0200 with tulipwood scales looked nice and the blade was ground down so it wasn't black, it looked 180* different than the original...at that point I know it would be out of your price range but shows what can be done.... guys a member here I'm not sure of his ID but you can google dobsoncwm.

Also, how about an Ontario Retribution 2? you can get them for $120.
 
Thanks, Dagon, but the "Gun Hammer" is a perfect example of the "tactical" problem. You are probably unfamiliar with our laws living in Belgium, but IL has what's called an intent based law. That not only means that you have to show intent to commit crime with a weapon, but that some asshole judge can say that you had bad intentions b/c the manufacturer or retailer of a product advertised the product for an ill-intentioned use. Words like "gun-hammer", "talon", "zero-tolerance", tactical etc. make the government's case easy.

Again, yes, like Pete says, most cops won't care, but if you get a politically motivated, corrupt politician and a politically motivated corrupt judge, and we have plenty around here, they can slap a possession of dangerous weapon charge on you and make it stick based on the advertising of the product. Plus, Chicago is the capitol of anti-second amendment politicians in the U.S., so "gun hammer" is definitely a stupid name for an otherwise fine pocketknife.
 
njr said:
Thanks, Dagon, but the "Gun Hammer" is a perfect example of the "tactical" problem. You are probably unfamiliar with our laws living in Belgium, but IL has what's called an intent based law. That not only means that you have to show intent to commit crime with a weapon, but that some asshole judge can say that you had bad intentions b/c the manufacturer or retailer of a product advertised the product for an ill-intentioned use. Words like "gun-hammer", "talon", "zero-tolerance", tactical etc. make the government's case easy.

Again, yes, like Pete says, most cops won't care, but if you get a politically motivated, corrupt politician and a politically motivated corrupt judge, and we have plenty around here, they can slap a possession of dangerous weapon charge on you and make it stick based on the advertising of the product. Plus, Chicago is the capitol of anti-second amendment politicians in the U.S., so "gun hammer" is definitely a stupid name for an otherwise fine pocketknife.
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So think of what you could say when you pull out the Sage II. "Well they designed the knife to play tribute to all the great knife makers and the locks they invented. This is the second version, using the Reeves Integral Lock. Chris Reeves currently sells knives for $300+ apiece. It has full titanium handles and a S30V blade."
 
Have you looked at the Al Mar Eagle? It comes in different handle materials, and doesn't look too scary.
 
if I'm reading this right, it's not a reverse grip. also called a cancer grip

njr said:
A filipino grip is one that uses a tight grip with the middle, ring and pinky fingers. The thumb points toward the target which allows you to more easily hit your target when thrusting while absorbing the shock of hitting your target in the last three fingers.
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DSCF4542.JPG
 
Solution: Don't live in a corrupt, violent crime breeding, anti self defense, CORRUPT, liberal craphole filled with oxygen thieves. It doesn't get much worse than Chicago. (I grew up just outside the city and my wife is from a suburb)

"Lawyer proof" does not exist. It simply does not. Pick something that is not auto or assisted and is LEGAL, which means short enough and folding most likely, use good situational awareness, carry pepper spray (I like Fox Labs, Saber is also great), carry a good flashlight and stay out of trouble.
 
Those Gunhammers are beautiful.

Yeah...so Chicago sucks and is corrupt. We knew that.;)

*Re-focusing - I know you said you didn't like Spyderco because of handle thinness or something but they make a huge variety of styles and their knives don't display any ninjo logo'ing.

They are sharp(that's still legal, eh?), they are well-made with great materials and they are affordable.

If you REALLY need a knife for self-defense feeling a little "thin" isn' gonna be on your mind.

One more suggestion - a Tenacious feels alot thicker at the handle than a Para(which would be a great choice) It may fill your palm sufficiently.
And...it's really affordable.:thumbup:
 
"Retribution"? Could Ontario make it any easier for the Chicago Judiciary?




Ryou said:
You can have wood, micarta or other scales made up for you I am sure, so choose up your knife and get some scales cut for it. I saw a ZT 0200 with tulipwood scales looked nice and the blade was ground down so it wasn't black, it looked 180* different than the original...at that point I know it would be out of your price range but shows what can be done.... guys a member here I'm not sure of his ID but you can google dobsoncwm.

Also, how about an Ontario Retribution 2? you can get them for $120.
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