Off Topic Off Topic (Possibly Controversial)

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Read your third and fifth points for your answer. Don't escalate a situation, but once it escalates to the point of violence (and if you don't get away it will) then offer up spades.


For those who believe in using your fists, remember, far more people are killed by fists than firearms.

I'm 5 foot nothing, fists are usually not a good option for me.

 

Great points all. I’m going to go watch some college football.

 

Sometimes a backstory can totally change the narrative. Who did the dumpster belong too? Is there a history of illegal dumping?

A while back we had a case in my area that was first reported as Man shoots someone off of his dirt bike for trespassing on his property. Eventually the rest of the story cames out that the deceased was a local scumbag tweaker and thief who had been caught on the property numerous times, one time even telling the old man that if he layed a hand on him he would own his ranch. Eventually the old man had enough and blasted him. He got some time (seven years IIRC) but the court didn't hold him to a murder charge even though they very well could have.

 

Your local AO also plays a part in what you should do.

In some states (such as Maryland) you are REQUIRED BY LAW to flee a situation. I would suspect many "blue" states are in similar situations.

KNOW YOUR SELF DEFENSE LAWS!

 

Murder. the instant that pistol appeared in shirtless' hand, that is the 'first' threat to kill. the other guy then has the right to defend himself with deadly force. unfortunately he apparently tried to do it with a baseball bat and lots of threats and it cost him.

 

Heartily agree with littlehoot. Especially if you CC in any jurisdiction. Don’t rely on hearsay. Run off copies of the pertinent information for your state; commit those laws to memory and carry them in your vehicle. Police officers are great, but they may not be fully cognizant on all CC laws. Make sure you are.

 

Good advice. Not a bad idea to carry them on you if possible.

 

He threatened to kill them several times. Not smart

He threatened to kill people that were holding guns. Extremely not smart.

He countinued threating to kill people that were holding guns that told him to step back, and if he came within three feet of them he would be shot. About as stupid as you can get.

I could not see how close he came since the camera was turned. He might have had a baseball bat at that time as well according to what I read. It's sad he died and it's sad he was that stupid.

 

The father and son were there, armed, looking for a confrontation.
These were not EDC firearms that they happen to have on their person at the time. They were deliberately and specifically taken to the confrontation to intimidate.

They instigated the escalation of the situation by using firearms to intimidate and threaten their neighbor and once the neighbor was wound up, they continued to provoke him until he snapped.

They could have walked away at any time and called the police.

Now a man is dead over something as ridiculous as garbage.

Was the unarmed neighbor faultless in all this?
No, he could have walked away at any time and called the police too but he's dead now and I see no issue with a Murder charge being applied in this case based solely on the limited facts shown in the video.

 

This is what happens when multiple stubborn hotheads clash over nothing!

They all play a part in this, for escalating it to the point, where some dude lost his life.. over something as pathetic as a mattress.. seriously, how damn retarded is that?

If some dude and his son, is confronting me with guns, I would swallow my pride, retreat.. and at a later point get even - by involving the lawman. No mattress is worth losing your life over.

 

I think it's unanimous. They were all stupid. It's like an unstoppable force of stupid collided with an immovable stupid object.

 

Yep. Seems like we all see this for what it is. And I’ve witnessed nothing but very intelligent and reasonable members here on BF. Back to Oregon vs Stanford.

 

I agree with Andy - both sides foolishly and repeatedly provoked each other and escalated the situation. I'm no expert, but based on what I see in the video, I would call it either murder or manslaughter.

My takeaway: do not argue with idiots, especially when they are armed and/or a hothead!

edit: italicized words added on 9/24

 

Stupidity on Both sides and it cost someone their life. This is a tragedy.
I couldn’t justify using a gun in that situation. Just leave and take your family with you. The son using the shotgun was pretty out of line.

 

There was more video here in this posted link than what I saw originally and I like the fact it showed more of the beginning with less editing.
The problem here is no one tried to deescalate the situation- this was 2 bulls in the ring running on emotion and testosterone, bleeding was inevitable. Crazy dead guy was already in a heightened state of berserk-ness, he was going to end up in a physical confrontation by any means yet incapable of assessing his odds which were not in his favor. His adrenaline rush overtook rationality and he lost. I give him the blue ribbon Darwin award on this day and accepted the room temperature challenge. As for the law or legality? this one's up to the jury and we shall see.
End of the day? dipshit is dead and inbreds go to prison and this community comes out on top as the trash took itself out.
In closing, you would have to be non-human to not feel for the wife and the kids to see their husband/father killed in front of you. The end with her screaming and crying has to grab anyone's emotions, it felt terrible to hear that. Who knows, maybe he was a good father and husband even if he was an idiot.
I wouldn't want to be in this jury, there's a whole lot going on in this video to argue a lot of different opinions so it's going to come down to what are the laws and what is perceived as a threat. It will be a teaching moment in the end but unfortunately for these type of people, you weren't ever going to teach them much.
The only victims here are the children and I agree with a lot of stuff up here, especially that the wife didn't work the situation harder. I think if she had gotten her stud muffin out of there, gave the video to the police and let the system work was the only out- but studly there was incapable at this point of rational thought.

 

Very well said, Leonardo. The cynical side of me looks at some dangerous hothead(s) removing themselves from society possibly before injuring or killing an innocent citizen on down the line. Never relize how these actions affect the remainder of eternity. Philosophically, everything that happens should have happened or it wouldn’t have happened. Have a good Sunday all.

 

If reading armed citizen columns means anything wheb it comes ti knowledge or wisdom is anyone's guess. One think Ive read about is the critical distance where an officer armed with a gun becomes at a disadvantage to someone with a knife etc. Its been a while but either 8ft or 8yds if I remember correctly. A berserk individual entering that distance could get a hold if the gun and shoot the original holder, so maybe some small defense info there.

I didn't watch the vid but unless the singleton guy already threatened to kill the dad/son I don't see how they could legally be holding the firearms. Displaying a gun in public is usually a crime. It sounds like the dad/son brandished their weapon(s) in a threatening manner, another crime. If they were taunting the gun while armed (did the older guy hold his pistol turned 90 degrees to the norm and nit bother with sights?) seems like trying ti induce the singleton inti making a move so they could shoot him.

Did the video start after the dad/son were armed or show when the pistol was pulled?

 

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When the footage began they were both holding their respective firearms. And since they possessed neither carry equipment; shirts nor belts it appears like they just grabbed those guns and walked on down to the encounter. And good point with brandishing. Don’t know that municipality’s laws, but just holding those weapons they way they did - outside of any holster or carry device - could perhaps be termed as brandishing. I could certainly argue that aspect, as in “my book” having the firearm in that condition is brandishing.

Doesn’t have to be pointed at the potential victim. Just quickly looked up that terminology, and according to Virginia law, brandishing is holding a firearm in a manner that may “induce fear” in another person. Purposely left open to interpretation and rightfully so, as this fear inducing manner could manifest itself in many forms.